In this episode of Muscles by Brussels Radio, Alice and Sawyer break down one of the biggest challenges of dieting: managing hunger during a fat-loss phase. They discuss what people should realistically expect when entering a calorie deficit and why dieting shouldn’t feel like constant suffering.
The coaches dive into the concept of calorie density and how choosing the right foods can dramatically impact satiety. They explore the difference between foods that provide stomach volume versus true fullness, and how high-volume foods like fruits and vegetables can help stretch the stomach and reduce hunger while keeping calories low.
They also talk about practical strategies for structuring meals, choosing satiating foods, and maintaining routines when dieting gets tough. Whether you’re preparing for a bodybuilding cut or simply trying to lose fat sustainably, this episode offers actionable tips to make dieting far more manageable.
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TRANSCRIPT
Sawyer (00:00)
Hey everybody, welcome back to Vegan Proteins Muscles by Brussels Radio. My name is Coach Sawyer.
Alice (00:06)
And I’m Alice.
Sawyer (00:07)
And I don’t even know what episode this is, but it doesn’t matter because we stopped counting. So, hey Alice, how are you doing?
Alice (00:13)
I’m doing great. This week I feel much better. just went, February has been a doozy month between like the weather, the crazy weather. I mean, the weather’s always bad in February, but also like I am just getting over like a minor back injury. I’m just getting over a cold. I had a colonoscopy on Friday.
Sawyer (00:20)
Really?
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
Hahaha
Alice (00:38)
⁓ Poor
Carson had terrible food poisoning last week. So we were both just like, while I was going through like the colonoscopy stuff, like he’s sick. ⁓ my goodness. So this week is good. I’m just mentally preparing for the cruise.
Sawyer (00:41)
my god.
Mm-hmm. That’s terrible. Yeah.
that’s right. That’s coming up. That’s really exciting. tell me a little bit about how, how do you keep yourself sane? Like when you’re going through all that, like what do you tell yourself? Cause like I’m sure it affected training. I’m sure it affected nutrition. Like how do you like, what’s the, like your mantra for times like that? I’m curious if you have one.
Alice (01:13)
when I’m injured, you mean?
Sawyer (01:15)
Mm-hmm. Injured, sick. Yeah.
Alice (01:16)
I just try to do anything,
yeah, or injured, I just try to stick to routines. I find a lot of comfort in having routines. And I still try to find ways that I’m able to contribute to my health, right? So I feel like I’m not just at the standstill. So with my back specifically, there was a lot of mobility stuff that I was working on without.
Sawyer (01:22)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Alice (01:41)
You know, very careful not to overdo it. There’s a difference between mobility and like, you know, rehab ⁓ work that like the category, the buckets of PT stuff, ⁓ making sure that I’m getting steps in. Man, I got a bunch of stuff. I even got a tens unit this time. So there was a lot of stuff that I did that was like, all right, we’re still like doing all of these things to move in a positive direction.
Sawyer (01:46)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
wow, dang, okay.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Alice (02:08)
It still doesn’t make it feel any less like I’m a prisoner in my bed. I’m a prisoner in my home. You know, it’s it’s maddening when you’re an active person when you’re an athlete like all this good stuff going for you and suddenly it’s like slam on the brakes
Sawyer (02:14)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, no, I like, I like that you say that though, like you kind of keep a routine or you, kind of pivot. Like I think what’s the worst thing you can do when you, when you hit a block point like that is to just stop doing everything because then you’re not even going to feel like yourself. And then it’s going to be hard to get back into it. think instead what to realize is like, there’s gotta be something I can still do. Right? Like, like you said, you channeled it into steps. You got even more steps, you know, like
Maybe your training wasn’t what you wanted it to be, but you still like kind of train around it. And then you do some steps or whatever you do. And that’s your new normal until you feel back. Like I always bring this up, but like the bugs life thing where they’re like, we’re going to walk around the leaf. Like for a while you have to go and just do something a little different, but you can’t stop because if you stop, might spiral in my experience.
Alice (03:08)
Ha
Yeah, and also nutritionally, like, you know, I
think a lot of us will want to default to like, ⁓ I’m just not going to eat anything because I’m not moving. Like that’s like one of the worst things you can do. So also trying to really dial in your nutrition during that time. Maybe, maybe you can distract yourself with some new recipes or something, or just better food logging. Like, like let’s, let’s dial in what we can control right now.
Sawyer (03:22)
Mm-hmm
Mm-hmm
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Alice (03:40)
Use this time productively, you know, making sure you’re enough calories so that your body has the fuel to heal, right? What do you do about that?
Sawyer (03:42)
I love that.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I think that’s brilliant because, you know, we’re always going, going, going and injuries and sickness. Like those are times where I know it’s not ideal and you might not be making the most physical progress, but you can make a lot of mental and like habit type gains by
Yeah. Reimagining, okay, what about this recipe that I default to? Could I make this even better for my goals right now? What if I tried a new recipe? What if I try, you know what I mean? Like you could sit with that and make improvements with that so that when you are back up on your feet again, you can even make more progress and have even more sustainability. So I like the idea of being like, okay, what, I can’t do this, but what can I do? You know, ⁓ focusing on what you can control. So yeah, I think that’s great advice.
Alice (04:31)
Mm-hmm.
Sawyer (04:35)
And you you mentioned nutrition, which is great because that’s a good segue into what we’re talking about today. We’re going to discuss, and I think I suspect this is going to be a longer one. So buckle up people, but we, I just got out of a cut. is a bikini pro. So, now pro strong woman. So I actually do, how do you qualify for pro strong woman by the way, just brief aside.
Alice (04:55)
Okay,
so there’s barely really any pro in prom women. The natural federations, I believe, don’t have a pro card route. It’s just like you go and you compete. It’s such a niche sport. I think it’s growing, I think it’s gaining popularity, but ⁓ of course it’s going to gain popularity slower with women. ⁓
Sawyer (04:59)
Okay
okay.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Alice (05:22)
So it’s just trying to compete, choosing your federation. ⁓
Sawyer (05:28)
Mm-hmm.
Well, that’s cool. But at any rate, you’ve now you’re now in this world, right, of strong men, strong woman. And ⁓ it’s really cool to see. So you’ve kind of been all over the map in terms of like these are the dieting preferences that I need to have or requirements rather than I need to have for this athletic endeavor. And probably your bodybuilding experience is going to be the most drawn upon in this episode, because we’re really trying to focus on
How the heck do we lose fat without just feeling starving? ⁓ Because you and I both know there’s, you know, parameters you can set, but there’s also how you go about, you know, chasing those things that’s going to make it easier or harder depending on which kind of route you choose, right? Or I guess I shouldn’t say route, but like is a big gray area. It’s a spectrum of like how easy or hard it will feel depending on your food selection and timing and all the stuff we’re going to talk about today.
Alice (05:56)
Mm.
Sawyer (06:19)
So before we get into that, when somebody is planning a cutting phase, what do you think are some of the things that they should expect going into it? And what are the things you like to tell people as they kind of enter this realm and they have to be ready for some things? Cause I have some in mind, but I want to hear yours first.
Alice (06:37)
I think just having the expectation that there will be times when you’re hungry. But here’s the difference. I think a lot of people go into a diet expecting, yeah, sure, I’m going to be hungry. But I think a lot of people go into the diet thinking, I’m going to be hungry all the time and just suffering. If that’s the case, then something’s wrong. Sure, there are going to be time periods in the day where it hits you.
Sawyer (06:48)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Alice (07:02)
And there’ll be, you know, certain phases of your diet when it gets a little bit harder. But if you are just like dying like that, then something’s gotta change. ⁓ There are so many strategies that Sawyer and I are gonna go over to try and help you through that. But what about you, Sawyer?
Sawyer (07:10)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
I actually, that was the biggest one I was gonna say is like, you might be a little hungry sometimes and you might get a little bit tired of your food selection being limited and maybe that affects downstream your social activities you feel like you can participate in. But if it ever turns into suffering, you know, just keep communicating with me. That’s why being in a coaching relationship, it’s really nice when you can just say, hey, like just vent to me because I will be able to.
discern like is this normal amount of struggle and learning and growth within a cut or is this like just physically you are just suffering and we need to pull you out of it or do something different. yeah, I like how you say that because from the outset, like especially depending on how you go into it and their level of experience with cutting, you could have differing levels of hunger. Some people when they start like barely notice like they’re like,
Alice (07:52)
Mm-hmm.
Sawyer (08:08)
I’m losing weight. Cool. You know, they don’t, you know, some of that has to do with, you know, how much body fat they have to start, but some of it is genetic too. ⁓ there are people that, you know, just don’t feel as hungry as often. Their bodies are just not as sensitive or attuned to when they are in a deficit as others. And so until you’ve, you’ve done a cut, it’s, hard to tell which person you will be.
I mean, you can know like, yeah, I like food. So you might have an inkling, but going into a sustained calorie deficit is a little bit different than daily fluctuations and calories and things like that. So anticipate that you will get hungrier at some point, but the intensity and the timeline of that, it depends on the person. So from there, I think now we got to start getting into the hacks, but…
You know, we talked about briefly before this, think a good place to start with that is talking about calorie density. how I like to frame this for people is like, there’s a, there’s a spectrum of like very satiating for per calorie to not very satiating at all per calorie. And you have to.
think about the foods that you select in a strategic way. Like if it’s the end of the day and you’re, you’re pretty fine. Like you could eat or not eat. And you’re like, well, I have 200 calories left. I’m going to eat this candy bar or whatever. Cool. That’s fine. That’s a situation in which like, you’re not really risking like white knuckling it to get to the goal. You’re just kind of like, yeah, I could, I could not. Yeah, I’m going to treat myself, whatever.
But if you’re at the beginning of the day and you’ve been hungry the last few days and you decide I’m gonna start my day with a candy bar, eh. Like you might be setting yourself up for some misery later. So I think strategically speaking these things can fit but you have to think, okay, where am I gonna get the most bang for my buck in terms of foods that if I eat this I know I’m gonna be full for X amount of time to X degree.
And it’s going to take up this percentage of my calories for the day. And the more that you kind of keep framing it that way, the better you’re going to be able to be at saying like, well, I’m going to allow myself some room here at the end of the day for a little bit of snacks, or I’m going to do eat this and this and this. And this is going to keep me full for the most part with this amount of calories that I have. There’s always a little bit of recalibrating you have to do when macros change. But for the most part, if you kind of set your macros,
you know, where you think that they need to be or where your coach does. And then within the confines of those plan, okay, I think I can get full with this, this, and this, trying that out time and time again, day after day, getting those reps in, you will start to gravitate towards the foods that are like satiating enough and give you a little bit of leeway for some fun foods, you know, so that you don’t go absolutely crazy. that’s kind of how I like to frame it because I think for me to prescribe,
things like I give people an example day of eating, but for me to say, and I always include some fun foods in there, but for me to say, hey, you should eat this exact thing or whatever, just that, that kind of takes away somebody’s autonomy. And it also, assumes that I know what they’re going to enjoy and what’s going to serve them best. And I just think that’s doing them a disservice. What do you have to say about that?
Alice (11:17)
Before I forget, because that’s a really good point, sample meal plans. They’re very, they’re super helpful to people. But yeah, they also make me somewhat uncomfortable because I always, I always make sure to stress, yes, it’s a sample. When I create them, I usually ask 20 questions because I want to give them something that is going to be valuable to them. Like, give me like two or three examples of what breakfast you eat, what lunch you eat, what dinner you eat.
Sawyer (11:30)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Alice (11:45)
maybe
a handful of favorite snacks and then I can piece together something that is meaningful. And I always definitely caveat that with you can use this as like an eye. This is how you figure out like these are portion sizes, right? I want you to take this and try and make your own as soon as possible because we don’t want anything day in and day out, right? But I love how you talked about the spectrum when it comes to
Sawyer (11:49)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Alice (12:13)
voluminous foods versus calorie dense foods. So our more voluminous foods are obviously going to be things like fruits and vegetables, right? But there’s also like different fruits and vegetables that are more dense and more voluminous, right? So if we’re talking about fruits, things like berries and melons are going to be very, very voluminous, right? Meaning you can have a larger portion in its fewer calories.
Sawyer (12:17)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Alice (12:39)
But then on the other end, you know, we’re talking about like dates. Dates are always my example, like the ultra, the ultra-calc, dense fruit. But also, know, these are kind of in the middle, but they’re more on the denser side. Apples, pears, right? Those kinds of things, those are very more dense. ⁓
Sawyer (12:45)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. I think
apples are somewhere in the middle, probably, right? Yeah, but, and like dried fruit, dried fruit is pretty much always on the more dense side. Like it just shrinks everything down and makes it more, and also it’s usually sweetened so it’s like crazy delicious and you just want to a bunch of it.
Alice (13:03)
Yeah, yeah, they are, they are.
Yeah, you
try and find ones that are like no sugar added if possible, but obviously the food companies want to make it delicious for you. So they’re usually going to like roll them around in some sugary syrup or something. So there’s that spectrum, but there’s okay, well talking about a little bit more like dense vegetables, I’d say, ⁓ before I move on with that, things like potatoes are going to be really dense.
Sawyer (13:27)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, definitely.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Mm-hmm. You mean, you mean, you mean sparse, like voluminous in terms of calories?
Alice (13:45)
things like legumes are going to be really dense, right?
Those are
the more dense like vegetables.
Sawyer (13:53)
I see what you’re saying. So you’re saying like, starchy carbs, maybe gonna be a little bit more in terms of on that spectrum, in terms of that class of food, gonna be a little bit more calories than something like green beans, for example. That was one of my go-tos when I was cutting.
Alice (14:10)
Green
beans is kind of in the middle. Green beans and peas, I would say, is in the middle. our very, important things are going to be like, of course, to be like greens, like leafy greens. ⁓ They’re going to be our broccoli and our cauliflower. Carrots are kind of in the middle, right? ⁓ Really, really, really voluminous things, guys. Peppers. So if you get like
Sawyer (14:13)
Oh wow, you’re a pro. What do you go for? Yeah, over here.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Alice (14:38)
I love the frozen fajita vegetable ⁓ mixes. Now they have onions in there, which onions are solid in the middle, right? Slightly towards the more voluminous side, but those red and green and orange peppers that are all sliced up in there, like those are basically free. Like I rely on those a lot. Cabbage, ⁓ these kinds of things are very much free. Yeah.
Sawyer (14:41)
Mm-hmm
Hmm
Hmm. Yeah, that’s a good one. Yeah. Leafy, leafy greens. What about mushrooms?
Where did that fall on your spectrum?
Alice (15:06)
Mushrooms are more on the voluminous side because you have to eat so many of them, but mushrooms are great because they are just like, they have unique protein in them and they just have a lot of micronutrients that you can’t find in other things. So if you are a person that likes mushrooms, I’m like, man, include some mushrooms in your diet, right?
Sawyer (15:11)
Mm-hmm
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm
Yeah, I
like that. No, it’s interesting. As you’re talking, I’m like, wow, actually I thought that was like on the more voluminous side. Like green beans, I would have classified on the more voluminous side, but you know, I’m also not a pro bikini competitor. So you like hats off to you. Yeah.
Alice (15:43)
Well, we’re talking about vegetables. So I mean, every
vegetable is going to be, for the most part, voluminous. So this is kind of a very niche thing, right? Obviously, the most voluminous, I mean, the most dense foods are going to be these more processed foods, right? And I don’t want to say that in a way that I hate the word processed because it scares people, processed does not necessarily mean bad.
Sawyer (15:51)
Mm-hmm
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Ultra process.
Mm-hmm
Alice (16:10)
But
the most calorie dense things, your donuts, your pizza, your cake, your cookies, your chips, all these things. And then, I don’t have anything to add to that one.
Sawyer (16:15)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Okay. How about what if we moved on to protein sources on spectrum? ⁓ sorry.
Alice (16:27)
Well, hang on, hang on. I
want to talk about also, you talked about on the sliding scale, there’s a difference between fullness and stomach stretching. So a lot of foods when we’re dieting, when we’re eating these really voluminous foods, they won’t necessarily, because they don’t have so many calories, because they don’t have as much, they’re very watery foods.
Sawyer (16:32)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm
Mm-hmm.
Alice (16:49)
They won’t necessarily make us feel like full, full, but there’s fullness and then there’s like the stomach stretching, right? And when you’re dieting, you can really, really trick your stomach and your body into feeling satisfied by filling up with voluminous foods and giving that like stomach stretching feeling. So those are some of the things that can really like help save you through a challenging diet, especially as you get
Sawyer (16:53)
Mm-hmm
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm
Alice (17:17)
further and further into the diet, right?
Sawyer (17:19)
Right,
right. Cause it’s like your body knows that you’re underfunding it with calories. Like it starts to understand more and more and hormonally it will start to send louder and louder signals for you to eat more calories. But in the meantime, while your body’s catching on, you can almost like do the little Indiana Jones switcheroo, you know, doesn’t work forever, but it does work for a while. If you’re like, okay, I’m going to take this space that I used to be filling with oily potatoes.
and switch it out for leafy greens with, you know, a protein source or something, that is going to make a difference in terms of the calories, but not necessarily a space taken up is what we’re saying. And while your body is catching on, you’re going to be losing fat all the while. And then by the time you’re like really hungry, because eventually your body will catch on and be like, uh-uh, we’re not doing this anymore. I’m done. That’s when you, you bring the calories back up to maintenance and you’re fine. But
Alice (17:57)
Mm-hmm.
Sawyer (18:12)
⁓ yeah, I like how you put that though, because also sometimes people will say, you know, I eat a salad and I’m just still so hungry. And so I think that’s why it’s, it’s worth mentioning and going over like protein sources too, because I think there is something to not only, you know, space being taken up in your stomach, but also having some like some real,
I don’t know what the word is, like, like some dense, something that’s dense, that’s something that’s harder for your, your body to get through and, feels like a heavier weight in your stomach. and I think part of that is protein and part of that is probably some fiber intake as well. but let’s go, let’s go over. Yeah. I would agree with that. I would love to, let’s go over all those. let’s, let’s talk about protein first. Where, where do you kind of set your kind of spectrum?
Alice (18:48)
and come back in strategic.
Sawyer (19:00)
We’re the poles of that spectrum for you.
Alice (19:02)
So when I’m dieting, and this is something that’s a little in the weeds, but if anyone has done macro tracking before, when you’re dieting, really, really want to think about what foods can I get that are protein, that are pretty much all protein? Like if you, like I have chronometer, so I always think about that chart, right? Like it’s like, ⁓ this food is this much protein and this much carbs and this much fats, right? You want it to look like that.
Sawyer (19:19)
and
and
Alice (19:28)
You want it to be like this
is a mostly protein food most of the time because it’s going to allow you to sort of save those carbs and fats for some more enjoyable foods. So those are like, especially when I’m like really, really, really like close to competition. That’s what the kind of foods that I’m looking for. Right. So my number one recommendation is always anything seitan
Sawyer (19:31)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm
Mm-hmm
Satan.
Alice (19:56)
gluten. The vitamin gluten SP is the secret ingredient
Sawyer (19:57)
Yeah, I knew it.
Alice (20:02)
in seitan. It’s, you know, they wash flour so that it pulls out the proteins from like the wheat basically. It’s basically pure wheat protein. And they use that to make seitan, which is the form of mock meats. And they use that to make like, it’s a form of flour. So you can put it in anything with flour and then create voila, these
Sawyer (20:11)
Mm-hmm
You
Alice (20:24)
amazing high protein baked goods basically. Anything that’s ready. And that is my favorite favorite thing. Talk about talk about girl dinners right? This is like girl guys seriously.
Sawyer (20:28)
It’s amazing.
Girl protein, I like
that. Well, no, it’s so versatile and it’s cheap and it’s, mean, not cheap, cheap, but it in terms of like, it is cheap in terms of like proteins, right? Cause like everybody knows protein’s probably the most expensive thing to buy. But yeah, in terms of like relative cost, in terms of ⁓ protein density per gram,
Like it just tops the charts in all these ways. And, I do think that some people demonize it because, you know, gluten gets a bad rap for whatever reason. But also I think people like when they hear, it’s process, you know, or a mock me, like those kinds of words get associated with things that are unhealthy. but I think, I think when you said, you know, what we’re looking for at a protein source is things that are just mostly protein and not so much other things because yeah, it does give you more flexibility.
And it’s going to allow you to get more full with more protein, without fluff. You know what I mean? Like if, if for instance, and I’m not saying that this is an unhealthy food, but if all your protein came from lentils, like whole lentils, you would have a lot more carbs than protein. And that would probably affect how, like how successful you would be at getting enough protein on in a dieting phase. And it might.
kind of overwhelm your digestion in some ways. But it’s a very healthy food.
Alice (21:54)
you would probably end up going
over in your carbs and under in your protein, right? That’s how you land at the end of the day if you were relying on lentils, beans.
Sawyer (21:57)
Yeah, exactly.
Mm-hmm,
right. And we’re not saying those are unhealthy foods by any means. They’re very healthy, but you just have to be conscious of, what are my goals right now? And is this going to kind of put me in a situation in which I’m not getting enough protein for my needs to maintain muscle and even make more and to be as satiated as possible? Now, that’s where we can get into the distinction between what is more satiating
fiber or protein, I think they’re both important and they each have like their pros and cons. But I think that in terms of fiber sources, legumes and whole grains like are top of the charts for that. We just have to be conscious of the fact that they do come along with a lot of carbs and that can affect the dieting phase. So you might have to temporarily reduce some of those healthier fiber containing foods.
trying to keep your fiber decent, right? But also keeping in mind, they do come along with those carbs and the carbs are really something we need to keep an eye on when we’re dieting. Would you agree with that? Okay, so is that, how do you think about fiber in the context of a diet? How do you kind of advise people, kind of think about it, in other words?
Alice (23:02)
Absolutely.
So with fiber, it really depends on a person’s like age, I guess. I help a lot of women who are in perimenopause or pasmenopause. ⁓ And I’m gonna have a lot more stress on fiber, for trying to get them fiber in each meal so that they have something that’s sort of like their body’s working on throughout the day, right? ⁓ But.
Sawyer (23:24)
Mm-hmm
Mm-hmm.
Alice (23:36)
For
most other people, I have a similar take. We definitely want to make sure we’re getting at least two servings of vegetables, at least one serving of fruit every day. But beyond that, trying to, it’s another spectrum. There’s flexible dieting mindset where it’s like, can eat anything I want as long as it meets my macros. But then if you’re just following the Twinkie diet, that’s the extreme example.
Sawyer (23:46)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Alice (24:03)
But a lot of people will be like, let’s see how much good stuff I can fit in. You’re not going to feel good. That’s not going to be health promoting. And so we have to keep in mind, all right, let’s get as much healthy food, satiating food in, while still keeping us sane and being able to fit in a treat here or there to be like, all right, I just had something good. This diet isn’t torture.
Sawyer (24:07)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm
Mm-hmm
Agreed agreed. I think I think what I tell people when when they’re like Anticipating being hungry or noticing hunger. I tell them to look look at four things in their diet and their dietary pattern is okay protein Are you getting a decent amount of protein? Is that something that you’re checking that box and it’s probably not you know what I mean? Because it’s like diminishing returns, you know, if somebody’s eating a hundred grams of protein going to 110 might help 120 might help but past that
you know, or, or, you know, wherever their needs are. Like I’m talking about a, like maybe a standard female going, going much higher, higher, higher, like going from that one 30 to one 50, that might be helpful. One 50 to one 70. Like now you’re kind of getting into it. Yeah. Yeah. Like if, if you start getting to an amount where it’s like very, like unnecessary physiologically and you’re kind of putting all your eggs, proverbial eggs in that basket of like,
Alice (25:11)
about amount of protein a day.
Sawyer (25:24)
I just need high protein to get satiated. You’re going to have diminishing returns. I think protein is a factor, but it’s not everything. And so I talk about these other factors being fiber, water, and volume. So protein, fiber, water, volume. I try to give people a good mix of those things. And if people send me a list of what they’re eating and I notice one of those things is very low, that’s usually what I’ll say. Let’s try bringing that thing up.
So if the volume of their food could use some work, I’m like, hey, let’s throw some leafy greens into this type of meal. Let’s throw some berries into that one. Let’s see if that makes a difference. If they’re not getting like any fiber, I’m like, well, let’s try maybe a little bit more whole grains or a little bit more legumes in there and see what happens. And if their proteins loves, you know, same thing. So, so I think having those things and realizing, okay, maybe it’s one of these things that I can mess with.
that can make the difference in terms of my satiation. That can make a big difference.
Alice (26:22)
your recommended proteins? Like I said, what are some of yours?
Sawyer (26:23)
Yeah. Good question.
Yeah, for me, uh, TVP was a big one. Um, edamame puffs. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. It’s, it’s a great one. And I think when, when people get over the whole process label and realize that these things are like very minimally processed and also just basically like extracted protein from plants, like
Alice (26:30)
That’s another one that’s like protein, like carbs, but no fat. Yep.
Sawyer (26:49)
It’s a really, really useful thing to have because then if, like I said, if we’re looking at the hole and you’re like, my protein’s a little low. Okay, cool. A little TVP, bringing that back up without downside of having like, now my carbs are way up here or whatever. So that’s something TVP, edamame protein puffs were critical in this last one. my gosh. Those are huge. What else did I do a lot of in this last cut? I, the big what?
Alice (27:12)
You do the big mountain.
Sawyer (27:15)
Which, no I didn’t. What is that again?
Alice (27:17)
Big Mountain Fava Bean Tofu guys. So it’s a little difficult to find, but they are being successful. I remember they used to be like $8 a block, but recently they came down at least around here to about $6 a block. And that’s still not great, but it’s like, well, that’s a big price difference, you know? And it’s more hit when I’m cutting because it’s, so you look, this is one of those products you look at the back and you’re like, if you know anything about
Sawyer (27:19)
⁓ yeah, that’s right.
Whoa.
You
Yeah, yeah.
Nah.
Alice (27:46)
macros you’re like is this a lie? like how can something made from beans be like zero carbs zero fat all protein like and literally the label looks like that. ⁓ But it is it is really really good guys. Heads up it’s not what you would think of regular tofu. ⁓ When I remember the first time I tried it I almost like spit it out like immediately because the texture is so
Sawyer (27:49)
Hahaha ⁓
Yeah. Yeah, that’s cool.
You
Alice (28:14)
Protein like so like the protein food that I almost was just like it had like the same mouthfeel as like chicken You know, so it kind of freaked me out a little bit but When you but when you get used like once you anticipate that once you you know learn how to make it the way you like like it’s It’s worth it. And and my Sawyer said, you know, a lot of times proteins are going to be your more costly foods ⁓
Sawyer (28:15)
Yeah
wow. That’s trippy. Yeah. Well, speaking of that, ⁓ go ahead.
Hmm.
Mm-hmm
Alice (28:42)
That is why I advocate so much for learning to make your own. I’m a lazy person in the kitchen, but I’m always in the kitchen. So me, I’m about trying to find the easiest recipes possible. I am a big fan of purchasing the appliances that you need to be able to do a lot of the work for you, take a lot of that time out of the kitchen, set it and forget it type of things.
Sawyer (28:48)
Mm-hmm.
You
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Alice (29:08)
you seitan, if you go and you buy like seitan or this, know, we can’t make fava bean tofu, right? But we can make tofu, guess. ⁓ But seitan is a great example. You buy that in the store, that’s going to be one of the most expensive, like vegan specialty products, unfortunately. ⁓ But if you purchase a bag of vital wheat gluten off of Amazon in bulk, then you
Sawyer (29:15)
Mm-hmm.
Thank
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Alice (29:31)
all of a sudden can make so much seitan and so much cool protein baked goods. That’s where it’s at. And it’s a game changer. And you talk about people being worried about how processed these vegan proteins are. Once you learn how they’re made, you actually realize it’s not really that serious of processing. ⁓
Sawyer (29:37)
Yeah.
It’s a game changer. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm
Alice (29:55)
You look at the ingredients list and you’re like, huh, this is what I would put in it if I were at home trying to flavor it myself. A lot of these products are very clean actually. ⁓ And so just for the value alone, like learning to make seitan, learning to make some of these things yourself is huge. But you to have anything to add to that?
Sawyer (30:00)
and
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm and not to mention if the out
if the alternative is a dead body. I don’t know how people are like, I’m have this You know steak and be like that’s totally fine. I just think that’s like that’s a product of cultural conditioning But anyway decide the point. yeah seitan is top tier s tier Protein source for vegans, especially if it’s homemade. but
Alice (30:17)
Right.
Sawyer (30:34)
Here’s the thing, if you don’t mind spending a little bit more money and it helps you indulge a little bit more and feel like you’re getting kind of to double dip in terms of like, really enjoy this and it’s like a good protein source for me. I do enjoy getting some vegan mock meats. I like getting the Daring Chickens when they’re on sale, Morningstar Chicken Strips and Beyond Steak tips. Like those things, man.
Alice (30:56)
Mm-hmm.
Sawyer (30:57)
those hit the spot, also they’re really good in terms of protein to low calories. So I leaned on those in my cut for when I was like, man, I’m really craving something tasty. I don’t want to have to make, spend too much time making it or I’m in a pinch. And I didn’t mind spending a little bit more money or they were on sale or something. You know, go nuts. So yeah.
Alice (31:14)
Bye.
Best of luck with the daring. Make sure you’re getting the unbreaded daring. When you get the ones that are like the flavored wings, then you’re getting like a breaded and fried product, right? So you’re going to the macros are not as friendly. So you’re looking for the green bag of the
Sawyer (31:30)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Good call. Yeah. So that all those products I really like, I’m sure there’s way more. Tofurkey is a great one. Tofurkey slices, especially basically just seitan, but you don’t have to make it. So it’s cool.
Alice (31:43)
And wasn’t Lightlife Gimiline also said that? I think it was.
Sawyer (31:45)
Yeah. yeah.
Yeah. I think it is vital wheat gluten and the flavor. don’t know how they do that, but it’s amazing. ⁓ it is hard to find. speaking of hard to find the kite Hill Greek yogurt. Amazing. Amazing macros tastes so good. And, yeah, kind of pricey, kind of hard to find, like,
Alice (31:54)
It’s hard to find now.
Sawyer (32:06)
In terms of if you’re like going to do this, you’re going to cut your 12 weeks. You’re like, I’m going to do this. It could be a real nice thing.
Alice (32:12)
Technically that
vital wheat gluten in there, just in case there’s any confusion there. Do you have any brands of TVP that you want to recommend? I have a few of you don’t.
Sawyer (32:16)
Yeah, sure.
yeah, go ahead. I just kind of grab whatever I can.
Alice (32:28)
So
you can get TV. So there’s textured vegetable protein, which in general refers to soy based. And then there’s textured pea protein. Obviously we’re not going to call it TPP. Most people call it textured pea protein. But you can get these unflavored, right? And there’s a variety of brands, right? Most of the time you’re just going to go into a grocery store and it’s like, Oh, Bob’s Red Mill TVP, right? That’s the most readily available in the store. But
Sawyer (32:35)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Alice (32:53)
but there are lots of brands that create like flavored, they season it for you and then you just pretty much have to hydrate it or cook it the way that you want. ⁓ And I always recommend to people Plant Boss, Rolling Greens, Plant Basics. There’s also the Gardein beef crumbles in the white bag. There’s probably more. Like if you ever see anything that’s like a crumble,
Sawyer (32:58)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mmm, I love that one
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Alice (33:20)
chances are it’s TVP and you could have saved some money by getting it, you know, by getting the unflavored and seasoning it yourself. But if you want
Sawyer (33:22)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Alice (33:28)
that convenience, it’s cool to support these brands sometimes.
Sawyer (33:31)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. And honorable mention, I will say protein powder, obviously, classic. I don’t love to rely on it all the time, but mm-hmm, yeah, that’s gonna be way less calories per serving and way higher protein. And then lastly, I guess I would include…
Alice (33:39)
But, but, protein powder isolate, guys.
Sawyer (33:52)
What was I gonna say? Dang, there was one. protein cereals in general. Like I know I talked about it in my protein puffs. You know, those are hard to get if you don’t get them online. Sometimes they’re even sold out online. ⁓
Alice (34:02)
Well, now we’re
like out of protein cereals. I mean, there are tons of cereals that claim to be protein cereals, but like now that the Wheaties protein is discontinued, sadness, we did. I know, the Wheaties protein is discontinued. Now we’re pretty much just left with little post-premiere protein cereal. If only Ben were here, honor will mention for Ben who…
Sawyer (34:05)
Really?
Hmm.
Do they stop it? no.
Sad.
Yeah
Yeah.
Alice (34:26)
pretty
much lived off of pro-premier protein cereal during his…
Sawyer (34:30)
I still don’t know how he did that. I,
one time, okay, one time we went to a grocery outlet in Washington state and they were a dollar a box. So me and the twins, you know, the Watton twins, we like showed up, filled our carts with them and left. And we had probably like, I don’t know, like I think those guys got like 50 boxes each. It was insane.
So that lasted them a while, but like after a while going through that stash, I was like, I don’t want this stuff anymore. And it was definitely not the length of a prep. So I don’t know how the hell he did that. ⁓ But that cereal is really good in terms of macros and the taste is pretty good too. But man, got, I stopped eating it for like a year or two after that, cause I was just like, I’m so sick of this stuff.
Alice (35:01)
You
Yeah, I would
save the protein cereal honestly for when you’re traveling. That’s probably the single most convenient protein source that I can actually like get myself to eat when I’m traveling and on a very, very busy trip. Did we say, we didn’t mention other brands of seitan. Uptons is the main brand. Franklin Farms is usually pretty easy to find. These can be pricey. I’d say Uptons is like,
Sawyer (35:20)
Hmm
Yeah.
I eat it all the time.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Alice (35:41)
gold standard. If you’ve never tried seitan before, try Upton’s. ⁓ You’ll just know like this is what seitan is supposed to taste like. Thank you. And if you want to find some seitan for a little bit more economic prices because you’re still maybe not ready to make your own, I would go to an Asian grocery store and they’re going to be weird brands but it doesn’t matter. They have a variety of seitan. Some of it’s canned interestingly enough, but a lot of it is
Sawyer (35:42)
Hmm
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Really?
Alice (36:09)
like plastic, almost like how comes and how tofu would come, how it’s like almost like vacuum sealed and the plastic thing. ⁓ So that’s a hack for guys who are really trying to pinch pennies. And did we mention deli meats, plant-based deli meats?
Sawyer (36:14)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
That’s cool.
Yeah.
No, go for it.
Alice (36:26)
So, I mean pretty much any brand a lot of most of them use seitan so that’s why they can get the macros that they get ⁓ I’m a big fan of be free, but you have to have a whole foods. I don’t think I don’t think I found it anywhere other than Whole Foods, honestly but The the simple brand that’s front That’s good. Of course. we did mention tofurky Field roast that’s a little bit harder to find
Sawyer (36:33)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Tofurky, talked about. Simple truth. good.
Mm-hmm.
Alice (36:53)
Can you think of any other brands?
Sawyer (36:54)
Yeah.
Yeah. Well, they used to have Eves, but now that’s discontinued, which I’m sad about too. I’m sorry to bring that up, but you know, good things come and go, but, you know, there’s, there’s all kinds of places like, you know, stores have their own brands and stuff like that. If you go to the deli meat or like next to the deli meat section, you’ll probably be able to find some vegan ones now, which is cool. Um, before we move on, Oh, go ahead. Go ahead.
Alice (37:16)
And
If you were just looking in the store and you happen to stumble upon a new product, it happens because we’re now in 2026 when new plant-based products pop up all the time, and you’re looking for something with protein, I always recommend to people, okay, this is how you know that this is a good amount of protein by looking at the nutrition panel. You want something that is a 10 to one ratio, 10 being the number of calories.
Sawyer (37:30)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
10 calories.
Alice (37:46)
One being the grams of protein. So for example, if something were 100 calories, then you want it to have around 10 grams of protein, right? 150, around 15 grams of protein. 200, around 20 grams of protein. Okay, so really, really simple. So you can take this and discover new protein foods on your own.
Sawyer (37:49)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm
Mm-hmm
Mm-hmm
Yeah,
I really liked that recommendation. Cause if you do that for most of the food you eat, you’ll find that hitting your protein targets becomes a lot easier. And then maybe even having a little space at the end of the day for a little treat or snacks in between things. you can, it’ll keep you sane. think if you’re, cause what happens in a lot of like newer dieters will do is they’ll like be like, Oh yeah, I’ll have that one.
sandwich or whatever, right? And then they realized later, that was 60 % of my calories for the day and only like 10 % of my protein. So now I’m playing catch up all the rest of today. And it wasn’t even that feeling, you know what I mean? So if you are a little bit more mindful about that stuff and you’re like, no, okay, I can modify this sandwich to have more protein, less calories, know, less bread, more of the deli slices, more veggies. This is going to make a huge difference in terms of
getting in that protein, feeling satiated from it, and not having to play catch up later. You know, trying to hit your protein amount without a ton of calories coming along for the ride. And psychologically, it’s gonna be easier too if you don’t feel like you’re constantly playing catch up. You just feel like, yeah, this is pretty easy. I get my protein because I have these sources and I’m pretty full and then I have a little bit of room for snacks. It just makes a world of difference.
⁓ before we move on, because I was thinking, what if we went over some specific meal examples that we like when we’re cutting? if you want to, I was just going to mention some other protein cereal brands that I like, cause I’m like a junkie for this stuff. So yeah, the, Edamame puffs, you got the premier protein, protein Cheerios is now a thing and they’re decent, decent. would say probably mix those with something or like have a small amount.
Alice (39:43)
Mix them with
edamame and puffs. That’s perfect.
Sawyer (39:44)
Yeah, that would be
that good. That’s a good way to do it. And then have like berries in there to be more filling. So those can be really good. You know, if you’re in a pinch, maybe some Kashi cereals ish. Okay. But like now we’re starting to get down the line of like, it’s more of like a regular cereal, not so much a protein cereal. And then I’m trying to think, I think there was one more that I like to do sometimes.
That might be it for now. Yeah. Anyway, there’s, you’re right, there more coming out all the time. So just keep your eyes peeled, guys. That sucks about the Wheaties though. Those were delicious. ⁓ Such a bummer. I know. Maybe we could write a petition. Let’s get everybody, hey, if you guys want the Wheaties protein cereals back in stores, let’s, you know, comment below. We’ll get this going. I wanna see, I wanna rally support for this, cause that was like the best.
Alice (40:16)
my God, my heart broken.
So.
you
Sawyer (40:34)
vegan protein cereal ever. Macros, ⁓ I guess special K protein, but I think there’s something about the D3 sourcing. I don’t really know.
Alice (40:42)
Yeah, that is a thing. This is still a legit protein cereal. think I need to double check on the vitamin D. ⁓ I think the one that’s like the cinnamon puffs, I think those are edible.
Sawyer (40:49)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. But also they reformulated recently. Yeah. huh.
really? Edamame. That’s
funny. But yeah, mean, any of these things could work by mixing them with edamame puffs because edamame protein puffs are like flavorless. so, but there are tons of protein in a small pack. So it’s like, you could kind of get away with a lot by just adding those to things in my opinion. yeah, anyway, so what if we moved on?
Alice (41:20)
Another great
one for if you’re traveling, go to the store and find your favorite vegan yogurt and then first put all my puffs in there and you’ve got a really, really great breakfast.
Sawyer (41:26)
Yeah.
Heck
yeah, that’s true. That’s very true. What if we moved on to some of our favorite meals, unless there’s some other thing like higher level concept that you think would be good for people to understand. We talked about calorie density, protein, fiber, volume. What else, if there’s anything else?
Alice (41:46)
Yeah,
I’d love to talk about what are some of the most satiating foods. And you touched on some of these, but I just kind of wanted to round it off a little bit, just to define some of these things. So some of the most satiating foods, I already mentioned legumes in general, so any kind of lentils, any kind of beans. They are a little bit more calorie dense, right? But they’re
Sawyer (41:52)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Alice (42:11)
jam-packed with vitamins, minerals, micronutrients. And I still, if I’m cutting, I’m still trying to include, you know, one serving of legumes each day. And that can be tofu, that’s fine if that’s the route you take, but if there’s no tofu in your day, then I try to, I definitely try to get some kind of legume. ⁓ Similar potatoes, we have like, it’s actually a really old study. I should have like, actually pulled that up beforehand.
Sawyer (42:14)
Mm-hmm.
I like that.
and ⁓
Alice (42:38)
But they basically surveyed so many, like tons and tons of people about like, all right, here are the foods we’re giving you. How would you rate them on like satiety and like potatoes and legumes and popcorn, obviously, like interestingly enough, high up there. And I like to add in there like super firm tofu. Again, sometimes if you are really, really like low calorie, super firm tofu can be a little bit harder to fit in, but it
Sawyer (42:47)
Hmm.
Interesting.
Mm-hmm
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Alice (43:06)
so satiating. I usually try to have it for lunch because I feel like if I have a good lunch then I’m usually set up for feeling mostly satisfied for the rest of the day.
Sawyer (43:08)
It’s true.
Mm-hmm.
You know what I like to do with that is ⁓ I’ll put it in like a soup. If I put it in a soup, then I’ve got the combo of the dense protein source, but with all the volume of the liquid, right? And soups in general,
Alice (43:19)
Hmm.
Yes. you’re going to be so stuck
in that. Yeah.
Sawyer (43:32)
Yeah,
soups in general are just, they’re top tier in my opinion for dieting because you can get a lot of space in your stomach filled, include some really tasty things in there, but it’s not like, you know, that’s all that you have to eat is the amount of tofu that’s in the soup. You get the whole thing and then you can throw a ton of veggies in there.
without even affecting your calories very much. I am like a big soup guy, especially after this last cut that I did. I was like, yeah, that’s, that’s really awesome.
Alice (44:02)
So veggies obviously are going to be a huge hack. A
lot of times people will come in for coaching and they’ll say, oh man, I’m just really, really hungry. What can I do? And if you just have a bowl of vegetables, it can be so filling and it won’t ruin your diet. So we talk about high fiber foods. Obviously vegetables are in there.
Sawyer (44:20)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Alice (44:29)
I also
want to not discredit having whole grains, having things like apples with the skin on. We mentioned berries already. We talked about non-starchy vegetables. Using all of these strategically are going to be really, really helpful for satiety.
Sawyer (44:33)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Yeah, think probably my biggest source of fiber on a normal basis is probably oats. Sorry, my dog’s freaking out. I don’t know why. But oats are my go to. like when I look back at my, yeah, like I’m looking at, if I go to my chronometer and I’m like, what gave me the most? Cause that’s cool about chronometers. You can always look back at your daily report.
Alice (44:55)
all of.
Sawyer (45:07)
And you can be like, what gave me the most of X nutrient or Y nutrient? And that can really help you figure out like what is doing the most damage in terms of calories or giving you the most benefit in terms of, you know, protein or whatever. And when I look at my fiber, let me just do this real quick. Yeah. Rolled oats is always the top of my list. So.
That was 40 % of my fiber yesterday. it’s just like one of those things. And granted, you do have to be a little careful. It is a little bit more calorie dense. So you try to use the amount that is necessary to get you the satiation you’re looking for and the fiber you’re looking for without going crazy. But I find that especially if I have like a long day ahead or I’m not going to be able to eat for a while, eating something with fiber like that,
even if it is a little bit more calories than say a protein cereal, seems to keep me fuller for longer. So, because the fiber just delays gastric emptying and so like I personally, I know I’m gonna have a longer day or it’s gonna be longer before I can eat again, I’m doing the oats like pretty much every time. Yeah.
Alice (46:11)
So you wanted to talk about some of your favorite meals. So why don’t you leave.
Sawyer (46:14)
Yeah.
Or you know what, let’s, let’s save that for the end. Cause now that I think about it, why don’t we talk about some things like strategic meal timing and things like that, because that could be something that’s a little tricky for people is when to put meals. You know, some people think, I got to do fasting or ⁓ I got to have small meals all these times a day. What do you tell people like that? Who, who are like, what do I do about meal timing?
Alice (46:38)
Yeah, so meal timing, it can be a very powerful tool to stave off like that uncomfortable hunger. ⁓ Some people, it’s worth playing with the number of meals that you have. Of course, this depends on the number of calories you have, but you we don’t have to necessarily always have that strict three meals a day. Having four or five meals, I wouldn’t really recommend going up to like six, definitely not seven.
Sawyer (46:47)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Alice (47:05)
⁓
Because then you’re just kind of like constantly having to prepare food and eat food and that’s kind of like creating a food focus that could be problematic but figuring out like what works for you Figuring out like all right up. So I’ll give an example my most struggle-bus time of day for actually feeling hungry is usually like two around two three four o’clock
Sawyer (47:10)
Mm-hmm
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm
Alice (47:33)
period of the day is always a struggle. So, you know, this is a lot of the reason why I’m like, I like having that super firm tofu then because a lot of times that will carry me through that fine. I like to have a good lunch so that, you know, the discomfort of that timeframe is sort of mitigated as much as possible. ⁓ Some people might need to have a little small snack, like right before or during that time, right?
Sawyer (47:41)
Hmm
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm
Alice (48:00)
So playing with your meal timing, your number of meals, and it’s gonna be different for each person. What about you, Sawyer?
Sawyer (48:02)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Exactly.
was exactly going to say that because I think that once you start, you, if you’re listening to somebody and they’re like, ⁓ this is the magic way to do it. And it’s super simple. And then you try that and you’re like, that didn’t work for me. Sometimes people think they’re broken and that, or that they’re just not going to be able to lose weight. And I just think it’s so different for different people. Cause when I was hearing you talk about, this is my problem time of day for me. Mine, it was like at seven or eight PM.
You know, and so I found that what I would do when I was dieting is I would be like, all right, I know I’m going to get hungriest right then.
Alice (48:33)
Mm-hmm.
Sawyer (48:41)
So if I save about this many calories for that amount of time and I try to focus on filling foods, what I ended up doing most of the time was having like a big bowl of soup at that around, around that time. And then a little something sweet afterwards. And that was just like the perfect one, two punch to take out my hunger, make sure I wasn’t going to bed hungry and made me feel like I could look forward to that in a day. So that even if I was a little bit hungry before then I knew
Once I got to that point in the day, I was going to get to a indulge a little bit with a bigger meal and you know, tons of tasty little things in the soup and then the sweet thing right afterwards. That was like, that was my jam. So what I ended up doing a lot of the rest of the day was like, okay, okay. I got my workout in the morning. So I’m going to eat something with a decent amount of carbs, but not too much, a little bit of caffeine. Like I tried to, I figured it out like about how much I needed to get through a workout.
and do with it that amount of food. And then after I got back from the workout, I would kind of say, all right, well, I’m not hungry for like another hour or two. So maybe once I make, or once I get to that point where I’m starting to notice I’m getting a little hungrier, then I’ll eat a pretty, you know, a decent sized meal, but it’s still going to be like keeping the calories under control. And that way I have more calories for that later meal.
you know, later on in the day. so, yeah, and maybe I’d have a snack before that last one. So it was usually like me waiting until the later parts of the days where I could, I knew I was going to be hungriest to allocate most of my calories to. But the thing is like that, that schedule didn’t develop until I was like a month and a half or a month into my dieting phase. So I think that for people to think,
I’m going to do it this way. And they’ve never been through a diet before. think you’ve got to listen to your body a little bit and listen to the rhythms of your life. It’s about like kind of peddling on the bike for a while. And once you get peddling, you can start going a little bit faster and not thinking about it as much because you’re just kind of in a good rhythm and you know how many calories you have less than when you usually get hungry and all that stuff. So I like your advice of saying like, try things out.
Don’t get too committed to things too quickly. Don’t get really excited about, if I do six meals a day, it’s gonna be the perfect solution. Try it out, try it out, because you don’t really know until you do it. And sometimes you’re just gonna get there intuitively by saying, well, you know, I noticed that when I had this thing, I got more full. I’m gonna try that again. And then you just keep, stack a bunch of those things on top of each other. And before you know it, you have your own unique way of doing things that you feel good doing. you know, so.
Alice (50:51)
Yeah.
And
similarly, so I love that. I tell people that tip all the time to save something for the evening that you can look forward to. for me, and I think for a lot of females out there, it’s like the evening time comes and we’re done. We’re like done with all of like the like healthy eating and like all of the like being diligent on your diet. And so like, if we’ve already planned ahead,
Sawyer (51:10)
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Alice (51:35)
for that treat. And we know what it is. And we can hang on all day and look forward to that and be like, I know that I’m going to have, in the blank. And I would rather have that at night and enjoy that nightly routine than stray from my diet and use my flexible dieting to have this earlier, right? ⁓ this can be a game changer. For years for me, it was having cereal in the evening. I always make cereal almost always.
Sawyer (51:37)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm
I like that. That
was my usual one actually after the soup. I would have some cereal too. So that’s that’s cool. Yeah.
Alice (52:10)
And now it’s because we just got a Ninja Creami now it’s exclusively
Sawyer (52:15)
Ooooo
Yeah, that’s awesome.
That’s another good one. I think that’s really good advice because not only do you have the long-term light at the end of the tunnel of knowing, hey, this is a temporary phase. I’m going to lose some fat and then I’m going to go back to maintenance eating and I’ll be okay. That’s important to have on the horizon. But if you don’t have a little bit of something to look forward to in the day in terms of like a little bit more of a fun food.
And yeah, usually it’s good for the end of the day to be like, I’ve done all my stuff. I did my workout. I did all the things I needed to do for work today. Yeah. Yeah. Now it’s fun time. It’s time for me to chill and like watch my show and eat the snack that I like. So I think it’s good to have that little light at the end of the tunnel in terms of the day. Like I’m doing the things I need to do so that I can enjoy this totally.
Alice (52:46)
I of vegetables, had my serving of fruit, I had all my water. Now it’s fun time.
Sawyer (53:06)
guilt-free knowing that I hit all the things I need, checked all the boxes I need to check, and I get to enjoy this, and I’m still within the confines of my plan. Like that is the best feeling when you set your life up like that. So yeah, I love that. Okay, so we talked about calorie density and food choices. We talked about meal timing. What else do you think is important that we cover? I just want to make sure we don’t miss anything.
Alice (53:15)
Mm-hmm.
so I wanted to just, I have like a hot list of like, could just fire off some hack foods for you guys. ⁓ And some of this requires, you know, Googling some recipes, but these are the things that get me through competition and prep. mean, so silken tofu, ⁓ use that to make desserts.
Sawyer (53:31)
Alright.
Let’s do it. You’re chomping at the bit. Let’s go, Alice. Enlighten us.
Hmm
Alice (53:53)
such as the Ninja Creami Protein Ice Cream. And Danny has some awesome chocolate mousse recipes made from silken tofu. I also make a cheese sauce out of silken tofu. Tofu is one of the best hacks. When you do silken tofu, it’s less protein, but it’s still very creamy and very like an indulgent sort of thick.
Sawyer (53:55)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Alice (54:16)
thing that you can make a lot of like dairy imitation out of and it’s like almost free calorie wise guys. So huge, huge hack. ⁓ Hummus, similarly to the silken tofu, ⁓ I like to make my own soy yogurt now. I make it out of soy milk and you know, think about to like back when we were me eating, right? Like people would be like, ⁓ use yogurt to replace all your cheese and all your mayo and all your.
Sawyer (54:22)
Yeah
Wow, that’s cool.
Mm-hmm.
Hmm
Alice (54:43)
sour cream, make your own vegan yogurt out of soy milk. It’s practically free. And now you’ve got amazing stuff for your sandwiches and your bowls and your, it’s just mind blowing.
Sawyer (54:53)
Wow. Do we have a
video about that yet? ⁓ my God.
Alice (54:57)
We don’t. We don’t. These refs are
in my book by the way if you guys are interested.
Sawyer (55:01)
that’s right. You did drop the book. I’m glad you plugged it. Yeah, Alice just dropped a book,
guys. We need some support and also just the fact that she’s a genius when it comes to this stuff. We gotta gleam as much knowledge as we can. Yeah, but hopefully we make a video about that soon too because everybody needs to hear about this protein yogurt type thing because I’m really curious now about that too. So do you want to give us a brief?
Alice (55:19)
Yeah.
Sawyer (55:26)
description of how you make it just so people can kind of start to wrap their heads around it a little bit. I’m curious.
Alice (55:32)
Yeah, so if you’re going to make yogurt, do yourself a favor and get the right appliance for it because fermenting anything at home is a little bit of work, right? And it’s time consuming. But if you have specifically an instant pot with a yogurt setting, it’s pretty much going to do all the work for you. And literally, we just get ⁓ a soy milk that
Sawyer (55:38)
the
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Alice (55:57)
has like as few ingredients as possible just so that it won’t mess with the fermentation process. So something like West soy milk, something like the Trader Joe’s soy beverage. And then you’re gonna get your culture and you’re gonna use, and that’s basically it. That’s basically all you’re putting in there guys. And you just let the.
Sawyer (56:04)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
is
Where does the culture come
from? Where do you get that?
Alice (56:20)
You can get them off Amazon. If you don’t want to buy an actual culture, you can also buy a vegan yogurt and add it to it. Obviously you want something that’s not already sweetened ideally, but you would have to add more. You probably have to add like maybe a cup of that yogurt. And some yogurt brands, and this is whether you’re plant-based or not, they’re like, oh, these are all the cultures we have in there.
Sawyer (56:33)
Mm-hmm.
you
Alice (56:44)
And sometimes the cultures aren’t really still alive. it’ll be hit or miss. If you get your own cultures, then it’s more likely to work. ⁓
Sawyer (56:49)
Mm-hmm.
Okay, what’s it called you if
you were to look it up and get it online, but what would you type in?
Alice (56:58)
gosh, I don’t have the brand memorized, but I mean, if you just look up like, know, ⁓ yogurt culture on Amazon, you can come up with something. The companies, can you chat in a little? But yeah, if you guys want to check out my book, can, it’s on the vegan proteins website for sale. And it’s also at payhip.com slash Alice Robinson. ⁓ For the specifics of that. Okay, back to my rapid fire stuff.
Sawyer (57:06)
Okay.
Mm-hmm
Okay.
What? Yeah. Well, what’s it? What’s your book
called real quick before we move on? What’s what’s the title of the book?
Alice (57:26)
Athlete’s guide to go vegan. All right, puff kamut It’s like practically free, very, very voluminous. Cauliflower rice. This is gonna add vol- These two things can just add volume to various, to various recipes, right? You already mentioned soup. I have soup basically every day when I’m dieting. It’s usually like tomato or just a broth with a bunch of vegetables and my protein.
Sawyer (57:28)
Nice, okay, thank you for sharing it. All right, go ahead, rapid fire, go.
Mm-hmm
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Alice (57:53)
of choice, right? Powdered peanut butter, powdered almond butter, powdered cashew butter. You can get all of these from PB2 Brands. Almond milk, pretty much free, right? And you’re to want to get extracts, vanilla extract, almond extract, maple extract, coconut extract, pineapple extract. These things are like free guys and they add a lot of flavor to your food, especially if your beverages, right? Or your oatmeal. If you’re trying to make anything like taste like anything else, speaking of.
Sawyer (57:55)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm
Mm-hmm.
Alice (58:22)
We talk about chocolate cravings being a thing when we’re on diet. You can make anything chocolate flavored if you have some unsweetened cocoa powder or cacao powder, whichever one you prefer. And some of that vanilla extract and a sweetener of choice. And I always recommend to people either stevia or monk fruit. These are both not artificial. They are natural sweeteners. The monk fruit, I recommend you get these.
Sawyer (58:25)
Hmm.
Good cow.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Alice (58:47)
not in a grocery store, neither of them, because if you buy them in a grocery store, they’re going to have all these added fillers and sugar alcohols to them. So you buy them in bulk online. I recommend going on Amazon looking up pure monk fruit extract bulk. I think my brand is like Morning Pepp or something. It comes in this huge, huge container. You’re going to look at it, it’s going to be a little bit of sticker shock, but monk fruit goes a long way. That container is going to last you a long time, guys.
Sawyer (58:54)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm
Mm-hmm.
Wow,
cool.
Alice (59:14)
So like you
can just make like a chocolate protein shake, you can make a chocolate pancake, you can make a chocolate oatmeal, you name it. Anything that’s appropriate to make chocolate, you can make chocolate like your foods that you’re eating throughout the day and that can help you reduce those chocolate cravings.
Sawyer (59:20)
Mm-hmm.
Wow.
Dude, I really wish that we had done this episode before my cut because I feel like I would have had an easier time, but maybe I should have just reached out to you. I’d known you for longer than I should have just been like, Alice, just give me the rundown of what to eat. But this is really good. I’m thinking this is going to help a lot of people. So continue. Let’s keep going. I don’t want to stop the train. Let’s go.
Alice (59:35)
Or your butt.
Nutritional yeast for parmesan cheese replacement. Sprinkle it on top of anything savory. You’re going to get a couple extra grams of protein. It’s a complete protein. Awesome. Always having if you, I cook so much at home, right? And getting spray oil, like cooking spray, instead of having like the oil in like the in the jug. You don’t have to get like the cheap Pam, right? Because we don’t want to
Sawyer (1:00:03)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Alice (1:00:19)
throw all that away. like to order glass spray bottles, meant for spray oil, and then you can just pour into there and then you’re reducing waste. But it helps you use a minimal, minimal amount of oil in your cooking because it’s very hard to cook without oil. ⁓ Let’s see. Snacks. So pickles, vegan kimchi, ⁓ pickled banana peppers, pickled jalapeno.
Sawyer (1:00:23)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm
and
Mm-hmm.
Alice (1:00:43)
sauerkraut, okay, all of these things. Now careful, they are higher in sodium, but as long as you’re not like going to town on some pickles, it shouldn’t mess with your weight scale too much, okay? To save just a few calories, you can invest in some diet condiments, some things like no sugar added ketchup, no sugar added jelly. There’s so many varieties, like it would take me forever to list them all, but mustard.
Sawyer (1:00:47)
Mm-hmm.
.
Yeah. ⁓
Mm-hmm
Alice (1:01:07)
is pretty much free guys so if you’re making a sandwich or want some flavor for anything that’s a little spicy, mustard pretty much free. The soy noodles, the shirataki noodles, Dave and I were just talking about that on my call the other day. cappuccino, hot sauces, yes. A lot of those are practically free. ⁓ My favorite is just getting Frank’s. Frank’s classic hot sauce. A lot of people are like that. If you get the plain Frank’s Red Hot, yes it is.
Sawyer (1:01:09)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm hot sauces. It’s another one
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Alice (1:01:36)
And plenty plenty of others. Again, we’re coming back to remember I mentioned the the peppers earlier the frozen peppers are pretty much free Spicy stuff a lot of times is gonna be like your friend when you’re in talking Talking about caffeine real quick Caffeine can be a powerful tool to stave off hunger, but it’s also very easy to overdo it on your on your cut So make sure you’re having caffeine. You know how much caffeine you’re having you’re not going overboard
Sawyer (1:01:41)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Agreed.
Mm-hmm.
Alice (1:02:03)
I like to, if I’m going to utilize caffeine, I like to have very weak coffee. I like to try, or I might have like a soda or something. Soda typically only has like 35, what is it? is it? Midrams? Or the ingrands? not sure.
Sawyer (1:02:03)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I mean, it depends on what you’re getting, but also like when you have soda, are you doing like a specific brand? a, like a no or low sugar kind of one. ⁓
Alice (1:02:27)
I really like the ZVIA soda because it doesn’t have
any added color or anything to it. It’s kind hard to find sometimes, but if I can’t find ZVIA, then you know, this is really fun, like at the Vegan Strong Food, I might have like a Coke Zero or something because you have to be on, you have to be talking to people, you have to be, ⁓ you know, sometimes you need that little bit of caffeine, especially if I’m dieting, right? Did you have something to add to that?
Sawyer (1:02:33)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
and
Yeah,
I really liked the Olly pops. That was like a treat for me while I was dieting and some of them have caffeine. Some of them don’t, but like, really like that. I was never even a soda person. So it wasn’t even like I was replacing anything. It was just like a cool little treat that was like, you know, 40 calories. So I was like, yeah, okay.
Alice (1:03:10)
It really,
really oppresses your appetite guys. But I would say definitely cut off the caffeine at 2 p.m. at the latest. if you are a specialty beverage person who are just like, gotta have something in your hands. You gotta have something, maybe a hot beverage, maybe something that feels special, especially like in the evening. This is a great swap as well. If you’re a person that’s like, get off of work and I need to have a beer or a glass of wine.
Sawyer (1:03:13)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Alice (1:03:34)
Looking to dessert teas. I’m not saying decaffeinated teas because a lot of people don’t like those But you can get Swiss water decaffeinated Teas and stuff and and coffees And then they don’t have any like chemicals added to do the decaffeinated process So that for those that interested in that route, but I’m really talking about dessert teas You know you go into the tea aisle and you see this very colorful wall of like all these teas
Sawyer (1:03:40)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm
Alice (1:03:58)
Most of them are dessert teas. They don’t have any caffeine, they don’t have any sugar, they’re very fragrant. They’re usually fruity, vanilla-y, those kinds of things. So that’s another thing, being hydrated enough, having something special can really help a lot of people getting through their diet.
Sawyer (1:03:59)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, and little stevia in there and monk fruit can go a long way in terms of making it taste really good.
Alice (1:04:18)
of almond
milk. Yeah, feels really great. Similar, we’re on the beverage kick, SodaStream, another appliance that I will plug. We are obsessed. We get a SodaStream and we get a special adapter that will basically let us set up a larger tank to it. Because we would just go through those teeny little
Sawyer (1:04:20)
Yeah.
my gosh. Wow, you guys are super intense. my gosh.
Alice (1:04:39)
there’s no way we’re not paying for that they’re like $20 a pop so if you go to a brewery or if you go to like it has we actually go to like this it’s an actual business that specializes in like you know co2 for like restaurants and such it doesn’t look like like it looks like an office building you walk in there and that’s the best if you can find something like that then that’s that’s your best bet but breweries are
Sawyer (1:04:41)
yeah.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Wow.
Alice (1:05:03)
the second easiest place to find places where you can just buy a giant canister of CO2, food grade CO2. And then flavoring that, flavoring that with stuff like true lime. You could just do a splash of vanilla, tastes like a diet vanilla Coke, right? ⁓ There was a time we were like juicing ginger to do a little bit of ginger flavoring. You can get a bunch of those diet like syrups. If you go to like
Sawyer (1:05:09)
Wow, that’s really cool.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Wow.
Alice (1:05:28)
I mean, there’s some on the coffee aisle, but those are usually pretty boring. But if you go to like a restaurant, ⁓ store, a lot of times you can find like the aisle of all the syrups and then you can get pretty much any flavor you want.
Sawyer (1:05:33)
Mm-hmm.
Dude, this is…
You were you were the
person for this episode. I’ll tell you what, this is really cool stuff because I mean, so much of this is like, I mean, what it’s someone’s to mind is like somebody who’s a real gym junkie, just building their own home gym and being like, I can do everything I want here. And like, you’re doing that in the kitchen. You know what I mean? You’re figuring out, OK, I like these products. How do I make them at home? How do I make even more low calorie, higher protein? Like, how am I doing this? And I think it’s important that people understand, like
You’re not going to figure all this out like overnight. And you know, even some of the stuff you’re talking about might feel out of reach for them right now. Like some of it does for me, even cause I’m not that advanced of a diet or either, but it’s really cool to think, wow, I get, there’s a lot of room to grow here. I can, I could get, I can make this a whole like lifestyle. You know what I mean? I could have an easier time indulging, but still maintaining the body composition that I want to have.
And that’s where it gets exciting. you know what I mean? So I think it’s really cool what you’re talking about, even though it’s like, now we’re getting really niche and specific about things. It’s like, this is as far as you want to take it, dude. Like, you know, this is like, if you really care about your body composition and you want to feel less limited while you’re dieting down, if that’s something you need to do periodically, or you have a lot of room to grow in that department, man, the more you invest in this kind of stuff, like
Alice (1:06:35)
Absolutely.
Sawyer (1:07:00)
the soda streams and the instapots and the air fryers and the understanding which products are gonna be, yeah, ninja creamies. Those kinds of things are gonna make your life so much easier and you’re gonna feel like you’re indulging still. It’s never gonna be as easy, I don’t think, as somebody who’s just not caring about anything, going out in the world, buying everything and going to restaurants and stuff and not tracking anything, right? Never gonna be that easy. But you’ve gotten this good at this stuff.
Alice (1:07:05)
It’s been me.
you
Sawyer (1:07:28)
Because you’re like, I can have my cake and eat it too. I can find a way to enjoy my life more think about it less and have the body composition I want and that’s where Right and it’s like
Alice (1:07:38)
Save money. And just be a happier vegan. I’m sorry, I live in the middle of nowhere. We have very limited restaurant options. So
learning how to make these things on your own, whether they be diet versions or not, is gonna increase your quality of life so much. It’s like, barely even have to go to the middle of the grocery store. Cause it’s like, we know how to make all this. Why would I buy?
Sawyer (1:07:56)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That’s so true ⁓
Yeah,
that’s so cool. Yeah, I love that. I think that’s such a cool thing. And some people will be like, that’s too much work. But it’s like, well, think about also the fact that like you do your homework and then you get to benefit from it forever. Like you buy the, you invest in the equipment, you understand the recipes, and then now you just do it like all the time. It’s easy. It’s, don’t even think about it anymore, but like.
Alice (1:08:07)
I like $5.
Sawyer (1:08:28)
You know, just the benefit of having done that homework is like, pays off for years. It’s like investing in gym equipment and then getting to use it and not have to drive yourself to the gym and subscribe. You know I mean? For years. So I think that, you know, what we’re talking about here, while it might be a little bit overwhelming for people might be like a little bit like, this feels like a little much for just to be, you know, fit or whatever. But like the truth is it’s going to make your life easier in the long run. That’s why we’re talking about it. So.
Yeah, that’s amazing. Is there more? Do you have more hacks? we still? Okay. All right. I love it.
Alice (1:09:00)
a couple more I’m almost done but remember remember
in the beginning of this episode that I said guys I am lazy in the kitchen like all of these things that I make are mostly like if they are time consuming recipes then they are set it and forget it kind of recipes or set a timer and go do something else recipes because I am not a person that’s going to be slaving away over this stuff not at all so I’m all about efficiency I’m all about saving money whatever is economical whatever is
Sawyer (1:09:06)
Hahaha
Hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Alice’s no-nonsense kitchen.
Yeah.
Alice (1:09:29)
My last things, protein pastas. Right? And then the best protein bar when you’re dieting, I gotta plug the Nugo Slim bars. Make sure you’re getting the vegan varieties, the chocolate peanut butter, the chocolate mint, the chocolate coconut. And there’s one that’s like a raspberry, I think as well. There’s those four.
Sawyer (1:09:33)
I can’t believe we didn’t bring that up now until now. Good one. Yeah.
Haha
Mm-hmm.
I thought the raspberry
one wasn’t vegan though. The slim one is vegan, but maybe the normal. I don’t know. I don’t know. That’s just what Dave told me. I don’t know. Okay. That’s really, it is a weird place to find caffeine, you know, in a bar, but whatever. ⁓
Alice (1:09:56)
I think it’s vegan. ⁓
Double check, double check. other three definitely are though. Definitely. There’s one that has coffee and caffeine and I’m like, I’m just going to skip that. Yeah.
Yeah, I agree. But that’s kind of a trend right now. And
then the best protein shake when you’re dieting is going to be the Owen shakes only what you need. O W Y N. Look for the 32 grams of protein. They’re called pro elite theories. You talk about having a 10 to one ratio. This sounds like a sounds like a 10 to three ratio or something.
Sawyer (1:10:23)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah,
it’s like 32 grams of protein with only 200 calories. I’m like, how did they, what witchcraft is this? This is crazy. Sorcery. Yeah, it’s crazy. Man, Alice, you killed it. If people don’t, you know what, guys, if you don’t thumbs up this video for the amount of effort that Alice just went to, to make you guys as fit and as happy as possible, I just don’t know what to tell you.
Alice (1:10:41)
Yeah. That’s my rapid fire list, I think.
Sawyer (1:11:00)
All right guys, thanks so much for tuning in. We had a really good time filming this one and I learned some things too. So that was really cool. Thank you Alice for sharing your Bikini Pro wisdom with us. And we might have to do another one. And I definitely think we need to do a soy yogurt video. I think that needs to happen at some point. Do you agree? All right guys, well follow us on the socials. Vegan Proteins, Alice, Soyboy Fitness Coaching on Instagram.
Alice (1:11:17)
Yeah, we can do that.
Sawyer (1:11:28)
Check us out on veganproteins.com. Please like this and share this with your friends. And we’ll see you guys in the next one.
