Ep 272 – Before You Compete in Bodybuilding, Watch This

Thinking about stepping onstage for the first time? Coaches Ben & Alice dive deep into what aspiring natural bodybuilding competitors should consider before committing to a contest.

They discuss who tends to thrive in bodybuilding, the importance of structure and routine, having a healthy relationship with food and your body, managing stress, and building strong social support.

They also cover the realities of contest prep, including how relationships and social life can change, why the post-show period can be especially challenging, and how mindfulness and self-awareness can help you navigate difficult moments.

The conversation also breaks down natural vs. non-tested bodybuilding, different natural federations, contest timelines, the importance of working with a coach, and the major men’s and women’s divisions.

If you’ve ever wondered whether bodybuilding is right for you, or what it actually takes to make your first competition a positive experience, this episode is for you.

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TRANSCRIPT

Ben (00:00)
Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of Vegan Proteins Muscles by Brussels Radio. My name is Ben.

Coach Alice Robeson (00:06)
And I’m Alice.

Ben (00:07)
And thank you for tuning in to another episode. So today we’re going to be talking about a favorite topic of mine. I feel like oftentimes we get to talk about bodybuilding together, Alice, which is always a treat. So I’m like, whenever I got a podcast with Alice, I’m like, yes, we’re probably gonna talk about bodybuilding, which is great. because we’re both really passionate about it. So today we’re gonna be talking about first-time competitors. If you’re thinking about getting into bodybuilding, what are some things for you to consider?

Had some requests for this episode. I think it’s something that has a lot of mystique around it. People have heard about bodybuilding, they’re not really sure what it is, or they kind of conjure up images of, you know, Arnold Schwarzenegger and Pumping Iron and kind of the way that it was introduced to maybe the the mainstream. I know that that’s actually one of my favorite films. So if anyone is interested in some of like the history and the culture of bodybuilding, that’s a great one to to kind of check out and see like

Okay, you know, when it was really starting to take off in like the 60s and the 70s, what was kind of the the culture? And then speaking of culture, there’s actually a documentary put out on YouTube recently by the podcast Iron Culture. It’s an Iron

Coach Alice Robeson (01:14)
Yeah.

Ben (01:14)
Culture documentary, and they go over

a lot of history. Yeah, history of lifting and go to all these different historical sites. So they go and do these like these ancient like stones in.

it was either in in Scotland or Ireland. I think I want to say Ireland. and then they go to like the Stark Center in Texas, which is this big like history of physical culture center. So really cool. Really recommend that people check that out. but anyways, we’re gonna be talking about bodybuilding and specifically we’re gonna be speaking about natural bodybuilding in this podcast. So that’s just a a caveat. and

We’ll be talking about you know, maybe some of the differences between natural and and enhanced bodybuilding just in terms of the federations and like people don’t always know that there’s kind of two different leagues. There’s like you know, a couple different organizations that are not tested, so not drug tested. So you kind of, you know, you can infer what that means and then ones that are. but before we get into all of that, Alice, it’s been a little while since I caught up with you. So I just love to know, you know, w what’s what’s new with you, what’s going on. I know that you had a little bit of a

I th I believe was your ankle injury and I think that was maybe the last time that we spoke on the podcast that we had talked about that. So I don’t know if we’ve given an update since then, but I just l love to know how you’re doing generally.

Coach Alice Robeson (02:29)
Yeah, I’m doing I’m doing very well. thank God my ankle recovery journey is over. I fell down the stairs back in March and not only did I like sprain my ankle worse than I ever have, which it’s not uncommon for me to sprain my ankle. Probably the most recurring injury that I do for some reason. Don’t ask me why.

But I actually had an avulsion fracture, and this is the first time I’ve ever had any kind of bone injury. It basically it just means, you know, if you’re gonna get a a bone injury, this is the best thing because it’s just a chip. It’s just a chip off of your your bone. It was on the top of my foot, so the doctors were kind of like it’s kind of a good thing because it means that literally your like connective tissues and your ankle were actually stronger than your bone, so like they like rubber band and like chipped off.

So the bone, I’m like, whoa. But of course I still have that sprain. I’m back and feeling amazing. and thankfully my range of motion is finally all recovered. and so enough about that. That’s boring crap. I the most important thing going on in my life right now, I think, is that I’m like basically in the prep before the prep. So I’m started my cut and

It’s going very slow, but I’m finally at a point where I’m feeling like I have made significant progress and thinking about like increasing social media strategy and all kinds of fun stuff. So I’m just like really pumped and really inspired, and I’ve got a couple clients competing. And like between that and just my own journey, I’m just like really ready to talk about today. But

What about you, Ben? I know that you were kind of alluding to similar, but what where are you at right now?

Ben (04:16)
Sorry, Dijon is being a menace right now.

Coach Alice Robeson (04:18)
This is my yoga mat, Dad.

Mm-hmm.

Ben (04:20)
I was like I was like cause I heard him scratch and I’m like what is he scratching at? No no no, we cannot have that.

Coach Alice Robeson (04:25)
Tina’s gonna be upset.

Ben (04:27)
Well, we’ll put it away so he doesn’t have access to it.

My goodness.

Coach Alice Robeson (04:32)
I’ve had a cat destroy

a yoga map before. I was really upset.

Ben (04:35)
Somehow he got it out from under. It was like behind a laundry basket. I was like, how did he how in the heck did he get that out? He’s he’s very resourceful, that cat. let’s see. I know.

Coach Alice Robeson (04:44)
Too smart for his own good.

Ben (04:46)
yeah, so I am doing well. Let’s see what is new for me. Well, today is the one year anniversary with my girlfriend, so that’s pretty cool. That’s something that

We’re looking forward to celebrating. And she’s got a couple of days off in the start of the week next week. So we’re going down to Cape Cod tomorrow and we’re gonna spend like half a week down there. So really looking forward to that. we just got back from San Diego, which was a big trip for us, and ate all the vegan food, went to all the vegan places. she showed me around because that’s where she’s from. So we went to you know, the beaches. I saw where she went to high school.

We hit the gym a couple of times. We just got like day passes at Planet Fitness. This is a a good little tidbit for people. Planet Fitness day passes are super cheap. They’re five dollars. and if you’re traveling to a a new a new one and it’s been, I think, ninety days since the last time you went, you can get a free day pass at most locations. So, you know, if you’re there two or we spent ten dollars total because we went three times while we were there each and we got to use the gym three times, which is in my opinion awesome because

Sometimes you’ll pay $20, $25 just for a day pass at at one gym. So that was great. but yeah, we cooked a a decent amount as well and tried to be active where we could, you know, did a little bit of swimming, did a little bit of, you know, just walking around generally. But I would say by the end of it, I was looking forward to coming back home and kind of getting back into the routine of things, which is a nice thing because when I went away, I was definitely feeling.

a little bit caught up in just the monotony of the the daily life. And I think that’s why it’s nice to just have these little times, whether it’s a weekend away or a week off here or there, just to break things up a little bit. Cause even if you appreciate and you enjoy what you do on a day-to-day basis, I think for most people, having a little bit of an interruption to that or a little bit of a break from that is nice just to kind of refresh things and make you appreciate it. Cause I think over time I start to just get a little bit

Tired and I need that novelty. And everyone has a little bit of a different ratio when it comes to how much of the that novelty that they need versus kind of keeping things the same. And I think as bodybuilders, we probably skew a little bit more towards that routine and being being pretty strict. So I know sometimes in the past it’s been hard for me to get away from that. But I would say as the years have gone on, I do appreciate it more and more because I know it kind of refreshes and invigorates me, which is really important. It’s kind of like a

I think in the past I’ve said something along the lines of like vacations are kind of a a life deload. like you know when we think about gym and training, we have deloads in terms of you know backing off and you know decreasing the weight and taking some stress off of our bodies, but I think we need some de-stressing periods just generally as well. And it’s nice to be able to

take take time away as well. So that’s what’s new with me. And then on like the bodybuilding side of things.

I would say maybe the newest thing for me is that I’ve been I’ve been tracking for the first time in like five years or something like that. just because I wanted it was more of a curiosity thing, really. I wanted to kind of see where I was at. I’m thinking about maybe stepping on stage sometime in the near future.

and so I would like to, if I decide to kind of bring in some outside assistance, like let’s say a coach, I’d like to be able to have some more objective data to give them in terms of, you know, this is my body weight, this is kind of the calories that I’ve been eating, etc. and it’s been nice kind of coming back to it. I think when I was using it for the first couple of years of my journey, I was very strict and very rigid about how I tracked. And it was like going out to eat would, you know, be a little bit more anxiety per.

provoking or you know having meals with others would be as well because I would you know be stressing about kind of estimating things and just feeling like I’m not as present but I think it’s been a lot more relaxed this time. and it’s like okay I’ll track more accurately you know with a food scale when I can and when I can’t then I’ll just do my best to you know kind of estimate things. And obviously I’ve gotten a better idea of how to estimate things accurately over time and I have some kind of tips and tricks there.

so that’s been kind of a a fun, honestly, little endeavor that I’ve been doing. and kind of just trying to incorporate a little bit more structure with nutrition than I have probably over the last year or so. So having more of my meals being more similar, making sure that I’m really on top of things with getting my, you know, my fruit and vegetable intake in, making sure my protein is where it needs to be. so just tightening things up a little bit. And then training is kind of, you know.

as it goes. it’s going well, small progressions here and there. But as you get more advanced, it’s, you know, you’re not seeing PRs every single week. So it’s it’s a l it’s a lot of times like going in, doing the same workouts. maybe not always hitting PRs, but taking the little wins where they come. And it’s always something that I enjoy. So that’s kind of me and where I’m at.

Coach Alice Robeson (09:20)
Thanks.

Good, good. Yeah. Well, I mean, you were I think this is a really appropriate like narrative that you took because you touched on a lot of things that I think we’re gonna touch on in this podcast. but I wanna start out like, you know, I was think I was reflecting on this on this subject and being like, you know, what can we talk about that are like the good things about competition because

I think a lot of people are looking for some warnings, right? Bodybuilding is gaining popularity, I feel like, right now, at least what what I’ve gathered from like social, from the recent competitions I’ve been at. And yeah, I mean like I think thinking about like why do people get interested in bodybuilding? I think number one thing is probably social media. It’s probably like very, very

dependent on that, you know, we see the photos, we see the like just the magical look that people achieve, people holding up those pro cards, the glossy tan, the hair and makeup and heels and glam. And these bodies look insanely good. And it’s very it’s very alluring, right? And I think it I kind of like want to caution people a little bit because of

Course, these extrinsic goals are great. It’s a reason to get you excited. It’s a reason to like generate some interest for yourself, but also just like thinking about how like is this something that’s gonna be good for me long term? and like what kind of person would you say is gonna be really good as a bodybuilder? Like, who would you recommend? Like, this is a good sport.

for you. You wanna start there?

Ben (11:00)
I think kind of coming back to what I was talking about with myself is ha somebody who likes structure and they like routine. and there is a spectrum of this. There are the people who are extremely type A who it’s like, I gotta eat the same meals at the same time. I have to have the same water intake. I’m in bed at the same time, I’m up at the same time. you know, my salt is the exact same every single day. They might be like very detail oriented.

sometimes that can actually backfire because life is gonna happen. There’s gonna be times where you can’t always be so on top of things, and that then that’s like maybe a an shit moment for them and they don’t know what to do, and they it creates a lot of stress. So, not always to say that the more routine and rigid you are, the better. But you kind of have to have some amount of routine and regularity with what you’re doing so that you get some predictable.

results and outcomes, and you can track enough data to then be able to get you to where you need to be come show day. Cause there’s a lot of data that needs to be taken in order to make the decisions that are going to get you there. however, you can still have structure but have flexibility within that structure. And I think that’s a lot of what we do with coaching is helping people to create systems and routines, but having malleability with those systems and routines. So

okay, you know, can we try to get this amount of protein at each meal and have, you know, each meal be on average this many calories? You know, okay, we want to get our fruits and vegetables in, but it doesn’t have to be the same fruits and vegetables every day. You can rotate them. You can rotate your protein sources, stuff like that. Now, you probably don’t want to have nothing prepped and you’re figuring out on the fly for every single meal. some people can do it that way, but I think that that can also create, it can create more food focus. It can create

Just more time spent. meal prep is like a tool that can be used in a lot of different ways. whether that’s you know, prepping meals themselves or just prepping staples and then kind of mixing and matching when you come to meals. So I would say in general, somebody who likes and appreciates routine because you’re gonna really struggle in a bodybuilding competition prep if you don’t have a solid routine down. And that includes nutrition and training and sleep, and I would say stress management as well, having some routine around stress management because.

I I think that that is one of the most important factors in having a successful contest prep or fitness journey in general is managing your stress and learning the tools for you that is gonna help managing stress because not everyone’s the same in how they like to do that.

Coach Alice Robeson (13:22)
Yeah. You touched on so many different things. So just like yeah, to summarize, like you said type A, I think that’s really, really good thing to think about. people with more type A personalities tend to do better more long term for just for longer periods of time. Someone who thrives in routine and in the past I’ve used the term like groundhog day routine, you know, or like a parent would sort of create a routine for their child, like

You have a certain bedtime, you have a certain wake time, you have an actual functioning gym schedule that you adhere to. You have a an actual meal schedule that is pretty consistent. Now, there again, there’s some flexibility allowed here. you have to have meal prep ritual skills like already developed. Like meal prep rituals need to be like your jam. Like, not that you have to meal prep everything, but there’s gotta be some degree of like.

All right, you know, these are my proteins. Here’s how I puzzle them together. If the plan changes to, you know, XYZ, I might rearrange to this and just have like a good like idea of like your meal structure, especially like your protein structures, right? and daily steps I would say are probably something that like you never skip, right? So and because of this, I want to add on like kind of a second bullet point to this, like

Someone who fitness has been sort of part of your identity for a long time. either a foundation of like past athlete or someone who has at least been, you know, very, very consistent in their own like personal fitness journey and sort of like curious about bodybuilding for a while, but like, you know, I never encourage someone to be like, I’m just getting into fitness. Ooh, bodybuilding is it, let’s go right now.

Right. so being having it be part of your identity is really important. and someone who like lives for inspiring others. And this is coming back to like you know, seeing those pictures of people like with the pro cards and stuff, and just getting all caught up in like that like extrinsic goal of I want to be that person. I want to be the person that goes in and wins everything on my first competition. If

If we only have these extrinsic goals, like chances are you’re gonna be really disappointed because bodybuilding is a long road journey. You know, I’d say like minimum, like looking at like multiple, multiple years. I’d say most people who get into bodybuilding and really s like do well have been bodybuilding for at least five years. And what I mean is competing for at least five years, not not the lead up before it, right?

A lot of men, because you know, this is a ma this is a like really male-dominated sport, let’s be real. There are a lot of men who will just like they’ve been lifting since high school because they were on the football team and they never really stopped and suddenly they just wake up one day and they’re like, I’m gonna go compete in bodybuilding. And then they show up and it’s just like whoosh. Sometimes they just like take everything. And so it can be really hard. You can never control like

Who’s gonna show up as far as your competition? You can never control what judges are gonna be there and what kind of experience they have and what kind of preferences they have. So, like, you have to be someone who like you are ready to live this lifestyle in a way that, like, I’m living for inspiring others. I am walking around being like, like, I am a bodybuilder in life. Like,

So many times I’m on my phone, like I’ll I’ll bring up my phone and people see this photo and they’re like, Holy crap, is that you? And people, you get this reputation, you get this kind of like leadership thing that like so just you just automatically sort of become like a fitness leader. And this is something that I feel like you have to be able to take a lot of joy in and a lot of reward in in the journey because

Chances are like it is once in a blue moon is hardly ever that someone’s gonna come in, go to a bodybuilding competition just like boop, pro card, boop, I’m winning, you know, top, top, top placements first thing, right?

Ben (17:39)
Absolutely. And you’re talking about being process oriented versus being results oriented. And I think it’s totally okay to have being successful and doing well at your competition as a goal and as a driving force. But like you’re saying, it can’t be the only thing. like you know, most of us who end up doing competitive bodybuilding, it’s because we like being competitive, we like competing. but you have to understand that when you compete, you’re not always gonna win.

just because you’re, you know, you’re in the show or you know, you’re in the game or you’re at a competition, whatever it is, whatever the sport is, or whatever the challenges that you’re attempting to do, it’s very unlikely that you’re gonna be the one who ends up at the top of the podium. But that doesn’t mean you can’t strive for that and understand it may or may not happen. you need to have a solid why and a couple maybe reasons of why you compete. And I think that’s at the essence of this is thinking about those reasons. You know, am I I’m here to inspire people, I’m here to show.

people what we can do on a plant-based, you know, vegan diet. That’s for a lot of us who compete. you know, that’s the that’s the whole plant-built team. That’s the whole message. That’s that’s what we’re about, is showing people, hey, you can be an awesome athlete and be vegan and be plant-based. and so having those wives for you, is it to inspire your kids and your family, your coworkers, the people around you? is it because you’ve always wanted to prove to yourself that you could do something really hard? That’s another thing that I think bodybuilders need to have is

A desire to do hard things and to overcome those hard things. And I think that’s a lot of us why we end up sticking around in the fitness thing is the fact that it’s not easy. It takes a lot of time and effort. And if everyone could do it, then everyone would be where they wanna be, but most people aren’t. It’s difficult. and so bodybuilding is like

getting to the 90, 90 fifth level and saying, I’m gonna get to level 100 once you, you know, you you start to enter that territory because it takes everything that you’ve done so far in your fitness journey and it turns up the dial. And the closer you get to competition, you’re turning up that dial even more and you’re getting into the red zone. So you really have to have those strong internal drives and reasons. And I think what you were saying, the people who burn out in the sport are the people who it’s really just the external or it’s mainly the external. And it’s like

Their identity and their self-worth is tied to a placing or tied to come, you know, achieving a certain thing as opposed to, I’m gonna be the best version of myself. I’m gonna bring the best physique that I can. And the people who usually take that attitude and that mindset, they’re gonna be happy with the with the with their competition, regardless of what the result is. Yes, you might be a little bummed or a little disappointed that you didn’t place as well as you thought. That’s natural, that’s normal. but you want to be able to say, you know what? Even with that.

I’m really proud of all the effort that I put in. And I think that you were mentioning kind of timelines, you know, when people have been competing for a while, yeah, it can take a long time to, you know, kind of work your way up in the ranks. If you’re thinking about competing for the first time, you know, people will ask, How long do I need to train consistently before I consider competing? There isn’t really, you know, a net, you know, a stock standard answer. I’ve heard people say, you know, you should be training consistently, you know, you being consistent with your nutrition, your sleep, this whole routine.

for at least three years before you decide to compete. I don’t think that’s the case for everybody. I know I’ve had people who have, you know, had a little bit less experience than that. But the thing is they have either experience, like you were saying, as an athlete or they’ve been, you know, on their own doing their nutrition, doing their training and being regimented with that for a long time. Maybe they haven’t done as much bodybuilding specific training, but hey, if I give them a plan, they can go to the you know, I know they’re gonna be at the gym, you know, that three, four, five times a week and they’re gonna be training consistently and they’re gonna be training hard.

and they’re gonna be on point with their nutrition. And I think that not to say that you have to be perfect, but if you’re still struggling with some of the the basic things to set it up within your life structure, you probably wanna get that down pat first before you decide to go into a competition because it’s only gonna get harder. So if you’ve got a big life event coming up, if you’ve got a move, if you’re expecting a child, if you just, you know, if work is crazy right now and you know it’s gonna be like that for a period of time, it’s

probably not the best time to start a contest prep because the stress is just gonna get amplified. of course, if that’s just a constant in your life, then you just have to decide, okay, am I gonna be able to kind of find a way to to make this work because I really want to do this bodybuilding thing? Not to say that you can’t be busy and be a successful competitor. Tons of people do it. You just have to kind of consider the trade-offs and what is actually going to be affected in your life. And we’ll talk about that as like you can expect that

Hey, you know, the social gatherings that you might might be going to right now, it’s probably gonna look a little bit different. You might not be able to go out for that meal and fully participate. You might have to you know, order something different on the menu that, you know, maybe is a little bit funky. you might get a couple, you know, looks or questions about what you’re doing. I think that’s that’s a hard part of prep that we can talk about is like the questions you get from other people and the kind of social, you could say stigma, I guess, but going to social events, bringing your own meal or

you know, obviously there’s some kind of crossovers here, like when you’re vegan and going somewhere. It almost it’s interesting. I don’t know if you experienced, but it’s almost like being vegan and being a bodybuilder. It’s like you kind of have almost these two reasons why you might be doing your own thing. Like I know, even in my off season, sometimes I go somewhere and I bring my own food just because I want to bring my own food. Cause it’s like, okay, they’re not gonna have options for me, anyways. So sometimes, depending on the social social circle, they might just be like, that’s you know, that’s the the vegan person. They’re just bringing their own meal. You know, they might not even like necessarily

know or understand, but you know, maybe it’s your friends or your family or people who you know, are kind of on that same wavelength as you. And that might be a conversation to have. So I think that’s important as well is kind of setting expectations with the people around you, making sure that you have strong social support. Do you want to talk about that a little bit? Because I feel like that’s like an important part of a contest prep because we never do it in isolation. It always is going to impact the people around us to a certain extent, even if we try to

you know, do the best that we can to manage it. You know, it affects your your energy and your attention and, you know, your personality too to a little bit of an extent.

Coach Alice Robeson (23:36)
Yeah, I think well before before we move to social support again, just to kind of like summarize, like I I think ultimately everything that you were like talking about sort of comes together into like someone who has a really good relationship with their body, a really good relationship with food, and someone who for them diet is not gonna be very like triggering, because it’s just going to become like such

a central part of your life that yeah, if we if you if you have a hard time sometimes with weighing your food, if you have a hard time sometimes with like daily weighing, if you have a hard time like going through periods where you’re gonna gain a little bit of weight, right? Cause it can’t all just be about weight loss.

And with your relationship with food, you’re talking about social things. Yeah. You need to be able to have the skills to be able to be like, right now, food is, you know, I have to eat this way to get into this certain this certain stage liness. But then you also have to be able to be like, I’m making the conscientious decision today because maybe I’m prepping through Thanksgiving to be like, I’m going to celebrate with food a little bit right now.

And it’s I’m gonna enjoy it and food is going to be a little bit more loose, and then you’re able to like flip the switch back the following day, right? Like if if you’re a person that goes to a social event and you don’t know how to be around food and you don’t know how to celebrate with food, but at the same time on the on the other side of the coin, like maybe it’s like, it’s just not an appropriate time to celebrate with food for me. I want to be at this social event, I want to hang out with my friends and laugh.

But I you know, things are maybe I’m like a couple months away from my show. So like you said, you’re gonna be packing your food that time. Like being able to adjust and be flexible and being able to like just s practically like rock it with food, right? Like just be confident in that area. Like this is this is really, really important and really, really central, because it it can be very

sort of like disordered and feel very disordered to people if we don’t have this these good skills under our belt already, right? So so one of talk talking about the social things. yeah being able to bring up to at least your immediate family, maybe to your coworkers who you’re closest with or interact with the most, and saying like

know telling them about your journey telling them why it’s important to you and just giving them a heads up hey sometimes I’m gonna be coming to these work lunches and I’m gonna be eating my own food at you know or I might not partake I might just come to hang out like I don’t mean anything by it but it’s just I’ve got these goals right now. but what else did you want to add on my

Ben (26:27)
No, that’s that’s a good point. It I think it was really just about making sure that the people that may be affected are gonna be on board. So, like if you have a partner, this is a big one. setting expectations around that. Now, I don’t think the best approach is gonna say is to be like, Okay, my show is eight months away, prep starts today, we’re never going out for any meals, we’re not eating any meals together, like I’m just doing my own thing for the next eight months. Hey, maybe your partner’s okay with that. Chances are

That might cause a little bit of a rift and a little bit more tension that needs to be there. So maybe instead of going out to eat twice a week or something like that, you have to scale it back to once a week. And instead of maybe eating out, it’s you’re making your own meal at home and you’re kind of, you know, roughly kind of estimating the calories, but you’re still sharing that meal experience together. And then maybe you’re going out to a restaurant once every two weeks or something like that. So it might just, again, it’s all like a spectrum and you kind of figure out how to scale it based on where you are. At the start of the prep,

You might not need to or you’re not gonna need to be as rigid as towards the end of the prep. It’s not like, you know, prep begins, you flip the switch and everything changes. It’s like a spectrum and you move closer to that rigidity. You move closer to, okay, you know, your your body fat is coming down, you’re gonna have to get stricter, you know, with with how you’re tracking and kind of that range. you’re not gonna be able to be as flexible at social events. So it might start out by, I’m still going to the social events, but I’m ordering something that I different. So instead of getting

The burger, the sandwich, I’m getting the salad. Then it becomes, okay, you know, now I need to bring my own food. Then it becomes, you know what, now I’m just gonna get a Diet Coke while I’m there and just like enjoy the social event for what I can. and then it might even get to a point when you’re a couple weeks out from your show that you say, you know what, guys, for this next four to six weeks, I’m you know, I’m in a box. I’m living my own, I’m doing my own thing. I’m not gonna be super available for events. Of course, there’s things that are more mandatory and that you’re gonna.

need to be able to to go to and you can’t just shut out all your responsibilities because you decided to do this thing that’s realistically a hobby and something that we choose to do. And that’s something that I always set expectations with my competitors as well when they’re getting ready for a season is reminding them, hey, it’s going to get hard throughout this process. There’s going to be times where we’re going to lean into that discomfort. There’s going to be times where I tell you, you know what, it feels hard right now. And we’re going to, we’re going to actually decide to pull back a little bit to kind of refresh yourself.

but what you need to keep in mind at all times is that when it feels hard, when you’re frustrated, when you’re irritated, when you’re really in those hard moments, maybe you’re thinking about saying something to somebody who maybe did something that was a little bit rude or you know that you didn’t appreciate and you know it might be showing a little bit. Just remember that at the end of the day, this is a choice that you made to decide to compete in bodybuilding. Nobody is forcing you to do this, nobody’s making you, you know, eat these meals, nobody’s you know.

has your hands tied behind your back and and saying, you know, this is what you have to do. It’s a choice that you’ve made. And so you have to remember that competing in an in and of itself is a very, you know, it’s something that we’re privileged to be able to do. And it’s something that we need to be appreciative of. And I think having that gratitude actually and that perspective really helps during those hard moments because you can kind of look at yourself and laugh a little bit and say, you know what, I I’m getting frustrated right now, but this is really silly. Like I’m I’m intentionally kind of

in a way, starving myself to then stand on stage in like a little, you know, outfit with some spray tan in front of a bunch of people who are tell rating me on what I look like. Like when you think about it like that, it’s a bit silly. and I think that kind of takes some of the pressure off as well. when you think about it like that. And I think, you know, as somebody embarks on that journey, there’s gonna be so many lessons they’re gonna learn throughout this process. Lots of mental things that are gonna come up.

I I can’t remember what I was talking, where I was talking about this. I think it was maybe on a podcast or maybe on a coaching call the other day. But I feel like I have gotten really close to a lot of the athletes that I’ve prepped because you see them at their most vulnerable moments. You learn things about them that you might not have known because it’s like, hey, there’s some TMI stuff, like, hey, coach, you I haven’t pooped in three days or something like that. Like that kind of stuff is gonna happen. And you build a level of intimacy between the, you know, the coach and the competitor.

through that process. And so you can, you know, there’s all these different things that you can expect. I know this, you know, this podcast has been a bit meandering, but I think that’s okay because there’s so much to cover when it comes to, you know, when it comes to this topic. you’re going to learn a lot through yourself through this process. And I think there’s all there’s a lot of just mindfulness that involve is involved in a bodybuilding prep. Just being mindful of your emotions, being mindful of your hunger. And I think there’s a lot of acceptance as well. Like accepting that you’re probably going to be hungry sometimes. You’re going to be fatigued. You’re going to be tired.

And it’s okay. You know, you’re gonna be okay. You’re gonna survive. You know, you’re still at the end of the day, you’re eating food, you’ve got a roof over your head, you know, you’ve you’ve got a job, whatever it is. and just trying to find ways to be grateful for what you’re doing on a daily basis. But one quick thing that I wanted to add on to what you said is yes, if you are using a bodybuilding competition as a transformation challenge or a way to kind of keep you on the straight and narrow,

Or yeah, maybe you have you know, a history of you know, disordered eating. Now that isn’t to say if you have a history of disordered eating, you can’t compete. You just need to be a little bit more careful. You might need to have a little bit more eyes on, you know, people on your team that are that are supporting you. but especially for the former, if you’re somebody who’s kind of using this as a way to get you back on track, I would say that you have to be careful because for a lot of people, the post-show period is harder than the actual prep.

itself. when you don’t have that carrot dangling out in front of you, what do your habits look like? What do these skills look like? Because that’s the whole reason we’re talking about having these built up before you go to compete, because competition itself, that might be that external driver, you can stick to it for 16, 20, 24, 28 weeks, whatever it is. But once the competition is over and you know all the all the prep feelings have kind of faded, that motivation, that drive,

know what are you left with? You have to be able to rely and fall back on those habits and it it gets hard at the end for anyone, I think. So I don’t know where you want to take it from here, but I I want to turn it over to you since I’ve been I’ve been talking for some time.

Coach Alice Robeson (32:30)
you hit on so many good things there. I think I think again it’s you need to be someone who does want to push themselves like harder in fitness than the average human being. and transformation I think is always going to be a big, big motivator in it. But it’s also like wanting you wanting to see both sides of the transformation, right? because

we’re gonna see ourselves in this really I mean honestly it’s weird like you said getting up on stage you’re practically naked you’re very lean you’re you’re ultra ultra lean and walking around in daily life like it doesn’t look normal and it and it’s not unusual to get like some comments especially if you’re not like really covering up during your bodybuilding prep, right? So

You’re getting your body into this weird, very lean, statue-like state. And then it’s like, all right, and then we’re gonna do it again in a year. And then in between, then it’s like, okay, now it’s time to post show reverse, and start to gain some weight and looking forward to seeing yourself at a normal body fat percentage again, maybe even a little higher body fat percentage. Like we have to be able to

We have to be able to like kind of enjoy like both sides of the fence. and it it you have to be in you have to be in a really good place with your body, right? And this is something that I think people are gonna build on and you don’t necessarily have to have these skills mastered like right off the bat. but it’s depth for for longevity. It’s definitely something that you’re

it it’s a benefit. I mean I think I think it’s it’s something that has helped me personally have a better relationship with my body than ever before. So absolutely that can go like in the wrong direction. And I don’t just like Ben, I don’t recommend that this is like your journey if you have you know some some challenges with with your relationship with your body or some challenges with maybe too much too much dieting, right?

but we have to we have to be comfortable with both sides of the coin, both all parts of the journey. and you also mentioned like about basically pageantry. This is this is at the end of the day, such a pageantry sport more than a strength sport. And it’s hard to accept that when we get up there and when we are like

learning to pose and sort of perfecting that part of it. You know, a lot of we’re we’re jocks. We’re we’re getting into the gym. We are enjoying lifting heavy circles. You know, it is not glamorous in on our day-to-day practices. And then we’re expected to get, you know, especially as females all dolled up, get into these five-inch heels. And that’s kind of terrifying and completely opposite to our regular element.

and if you are a person who is not, you know, interested in like the posing, you know, you’re gonna have a hard time. There’s there’s a lot of body awareness, there’s a lot of art to this, there’s a lot of you know, individual preferences again with the judges. and what else are you talking about? The the reversing, just yeah, you’re totally right. When we are in the reverse part of

Coming out of our competition prep. The competitions are over. Your placings are your placings, and now it’s time to, you know, start recovering. It’s time to start getting your body back to normal. Yeah, it can be, it can feel very out of control. We need a lot of I want to say body awareness as far as we have to know how our body is communicating with us.

And something that we talk about a lot in in the class that I’m taking, the break the chain activity. So figuring out like when our body is experiencing stress, when when we had a hard day at work, when we got a poor night of sleep, like how is that going to you know have these other links in the chain that’s going to like impact our behaviors later?

and being able to sort of save ourselves from our worst selves, right? and it’s the it’s the National Board Certified Health and Wellness Coach class that I’m taking. So love to hear if you remember part of that from from your studies because you’re already you already have that certification, right?

Ben (36:47)
can you repeat the question for me again?

Coach Alice Robeson (36:49)
Yeah, so in my class we’re talking about like the break the chain activity and talking about how our body communicates with us and the signals that our body sends to us to try to like communicate with our brains and we’re all really good at shutting like shutting down and ignoring our bodies. And when we’re in post competition prep, there’s a lot and I’m working with my clients on this a lot right now, there’s a lot of like trying to

Realize like when we had a stressful day, when we had a poor night of sleep, when we had like just maybe maybe we’re just like physically uncomfortable and just getting agitated even though there’s nothing in in our environment that is necessarily wrong, and that can sort of spiral into a chain of events that leads to behaviors that we don’t want, like like like binge eating and just sort of like

A lot of bodybuilders talk about losing like sort of losing their focus and losing a little bit of like their identity on the in the journey out. if you wanted to talk about any of that break the chain stuff from from your studies in as a National Board Certified Health and Wellness Coach.

Ben (37:58)
Yeah, so I think when you’re going throughout the prep process, there’s a lot of things that you kind of almost need to do to get through it that are not gonna serve you after the fact. there’s a lot of times where your body might not be super happy, whether that is aches and pains when you’re in the gym or you know, your hunger signaling where you kind of have to just tune it out, or you know, your sleep is is off and

You can’t get the number of hours that you want or the quality of sleep, and you’re waking up in the middle of the night, you’re going pee, you know, multiple times throughout the middle of the night. And you kind of just learn to ignore what your body is telling you and just push through it. And of course, you know, having a coach and knowing when it is appropriate to do that and when it’s appropriate to actually take it as a sign to pull back a little bit is important. but in that post-show period, there’s going to be a lot of dysregulation, I would say, between the f the

feedback that your body is giving you, because your body is basically going to be trying to get you to eat as much as you possibly can, because it’s been quote unquote starving for, you know, however many months that you’ve been doing this contest prep. And when you have these stressors come up, the, you know, the sleep disruptions, maybe it’s just a stressful day, they’re going to impact your decision making because we have a amount of like energy throughout the day that we can devote to

making decisions. And, you know, as the the day goes on, it’s harder and harder, especially as the fatigue builds. And so I think it’s important, like you were saying, kind of breaking the chain. And it’s been a while since I, you know, studied kind of specific techniques, but something that I talk to people a lot, even if they’re not in contest prep, is about just kind of again comes back to mindfulness. But when you catch yourself starting to s to see that fatigue build up, you’re starting to get a little bit irritated. You’re starting to feel emotional.

I think it’s really important skill to be able to just like find a way to take some space for yourself, maybe take a couple of deep breaths, or do something that is able to kind of calm and regulate your nervous system so that you’re not so wired and not so hyped up and you can actually think. Because when you’re in that kind of sympathetic state, you’re you know, you’re you’re not really thinking, you’re kind of just acting. but with your allow you yourself to kind of

Slow down. I call it taking the pause. Like before you act, take a pause and think about like, is this really what I want to do? Is this, you know, in alignment with my goals? thinking about your whys, all of these things. when you get caught up in that go, go, go and you catch yourself potentially about to make a decision that you you may not want to make in, you know, in the long term, even if it feels like you want to make it in the moment, if you’re thinking about the long term, it just gives you.

Gives you that time and it gives you a little bit of that space. It’s kind of like when you’re eating. If you’re eating super fast, you don’t give your body time to really tell you when it’s hungry, and then all of a sudden you’re really full and you’re uncomfortable. as opposed to you take your time, you chew your food, you’re mindful. You might find that, you know what? Actually, I’m full. I can kind of stop here. because you’re giving your body time to really, you know, give you those signals, and you’re giving yourself time to realize, okay, you know, I’m actually full here. and similarly,

If you yourself time to really think about is this what I want to eat or do I want to eat something else? Or whatever it is. Let’s say you’re in the gym and you’re, you know, maybe the the number that you want to beat from last week is there, and but you know, your your your muscle is you know it’s feeling a little bit off or it’s hurting, you know, something that’s is hurting that it shouldn’t really be hurting. instead of just being like, you know what, I gotta get this workout done, I gotta rush through it, you know, I gotta beat the numbers, whatever it is.

Take a second, take a deep breath, think about it, you know, make the make the appropriate decision. So I’d love to kind of hear maybe some of the things that that you’ve been learning or some some kind of strategies that you’ve used with clients maybe when they get caught, you know, in that maybe that spiral to a certain extent to allow them to kind of slow down a little bit.

Coach Alice Robeson (41:44)
Yeah, yeah. I mean, mainly mainly we talk about noticing and naming what’s happening, trying to identify like, yeah, my sleep was complete trash last night. and now it’s reached the end of the day, I’m completely empty on the gas tank, and now it’s like, hmm, that entire box of cereal is looking awfully good and before you know it, you know, you’re in this state where you’re getting these crazy, crazy amounts of dopamine hits.

for for eating anything, because just like Ben said, it’s your body is trying to get you to eat as much as humanly possible. And so sometimes not just like the cravings that you’re getting, but like once you start eating, it can be really hard to stop. So just like noticing what like what what’s going on and then naming like I am incredibly exhausted right now. I am incredibly stressed and seeing if we can redirect that to something else.

Right, instead of trying to relieve my stress via this entire box of cereal, I’m going to go play my video game. I’m going to take a walk around the block if you need to physically distance yourself from food. You know, so building on skills just like this and listen learning to listening to our body, I think is what I focus on a lot with clients. but yeah, so that’s like in a nutshell what what I’ve been talking about a lot with my clients recently.

And yeah, we get you get some really y you do get really, really personal throughout prep because there’s just so much weird things going on with your body, that it’s like your coach, your coach is one of your best friends during that time. But I feel like we I definitely hit on everything as far as like who we wanna be, like to be a competitor and to be successful, and to like stick with this long term, right?

What were the other what was some of the other points that you wanted to touch on as far as like maybe the natural aspect of it, or maybe

Ben (43:36)
Mm.

Coach Alice Robeson (43:37)
did you say the time of year that we compete or anything like that?

Ben (43:40)
Yeah, that’s that’s a good place to move into. So I guess briefly just understanding that there there are organizations that are not tested and the ones that are. And the ones that are not tested, you can kind of infer what is going on there when you look at those three hundred pound, you know, male bodybuilders on stage. or you know, the the women that you look at and you’re like, wow, that is crazy, you know, how much muscle that they they have on their frame.

So that is kind of its own separate league. You know, that’s what people think of the Mr. Olympia, you know, Arnold Schwarzenegger, the IFBB, the NPC. That’s, you know, that’s that’s what people think of. then there are the the natural or the you know, the drug tested organizations, such as the OCB, the WNBF, the NANBF, you know, the ANBF, there’s there’s the NGA, there’s lots of lots of organizations I could I could keep listing here.

and there are, you know, some of them are changing, some of them have been around for a long time. Sometimes they change the name, sometimes they get together, sometimes they dissolve. So it can be it can be confusing. And it’s a little bit more, I would say, personal. It’s a little bit more kind of mom and pop, you know, local promoters. there’s kind of shows all over the US, whereas, you know, the NPC IFBB, there might be fewer shows and there might be kind of more, you know, more spaced apart.

And yeah, the main difference is that the natural organizations, you are, you know, there’s a list of substances that you cannot take that are performance enhancing. and you will be, you know, at these shows, you’ll either be polygraphed, which is basically, you know, taking a a lie detector test essentially, or you know, to ask you questions about confirming that you are in fact drug free. and if you, you know, randomly or place well enough in the competition, you may be urine or blood tested as well. and that’s something.

something else to just know that kind of enhances the the legitimacy of the sport. Of course there’s, you know, people pick out the one or two cases where somebody, you know, is is cheating or, you know, fails a drug test. There can be weird circumstances where people fail a drug test and they actually are, you know, natural for all intents and purposes, whether that’s a actual test failure or maybe they unknowingly had a supplement that was, you know, adulterated or something like that. That can happen. But that’s kind of the main

differences between, you know, the natural and the non natural leagues. Did you wanna kinda add anything to that, Alice?

Coach Alice Robeson (45:46)
No, I mean mo just just that the two big ones really are gonna be your OCB and your INBF slash WNBF, right? so that’s and that’s where we sort of live at Vegan Proteins is really helping people compete naturally. there’s a lot I’ve been seeing a lot on Instagram lately about NPC natural. And gosh, it’s like really triggering to me to see it because there’s all these like

huge dudes like you know in their car making their little Instagram video talking about how great NPC Natural is and how much better it is than OCB and I’m just like, my gosh. Like

Ben (46:27)
Well that

well that’s an that’s another thing to note is like these organizations have different policies around how long you have to have been drug free for. the INBF yeah, yeah. So the NPC the

Coach Alice Robeson (46:35)
Only three years for NPC natural.

Ben (46:39)
NPC so the NPC natural is a very new league in the past couple of years. and they have a three year drug free policy, which if you know anything about performance enhancing drugs, the effects can last you know, a lot longer than than three years and there’s strategies that you can use to, you know.

Keep the muscle that you’ve gained during that time. It’s not super clear how strictly the drug policies are even being enforced, either that via polygraph or urine testing. so we, yeah, that’s not really a realm that any of us I think plan to venture into or have ventured into, but it’s out there. It exists, it’s an option. but yeah, like you were saying, the OCB, you know, the INBF, the you know, the INBA, PNBA is another one that’s been a long around for a long time. These are organizations that

you know, have reputation for, you know, drug testing. So the OCB is seven years, the INBF, WNBF is 10 years. so you can just see the difference in, you know, the three-year policy versus a lot of these other ones, which are seven to ten years. you know, there may be some kind of metal medical exemption situations with some of these as well. So if you’re taking a medication that’s on the banned list, you know, there’s stuff like you know, beta blockers and stuff like that that are on the on the ban list and you may be taking them for

one reason or another and you can get, you know, medical exemptions and in cases for that. So that that’s just something to to be aware of as well. And there can always be individual exceptions made. so that’s kind of the main differences. I guess what would be important to consider if you’re thinking about doing a sh a show is just looking to see what options are available in your area. So looking up a list of all the, you know, natural federations, you could probably use one of the, you know, AI tools to figure out all the different federations that exist. And then I would actually recommend going on their websites and looking at shows because

I don’t think the the AI tools from what I’ve seen always pull the all the shows that exist out there. So look on the Instagram pages, look on the websites of these different competition organizations and see what competitions they have. you also are gonna want to check out what divisions each organization have, because not all organizations offer the same divisions. There’s kind of the core ones that they all sort of offer, but there are some newer ones that are being added, and not all federations have those divisions. So

I think we’ll cover the maybe the last thing we’ll do is just cover the different, you know, a broad overview of the different divisions and you know how to pick what division you might want to compete in. You know, do you have to know from the start? Can you pick towards the end, that sort of thing? and seeing

Coach Alice Robeson (48:53)
Mm-hmm.

Ben (48:55)
what’s in your seeing what’s in your area and when, and that can kind of help with your timeline of when you want to compete. So I think it’s important to to note that for most people, you’re gonna need at least 16, you know, 16 to 20 weeks for a contest prep.

And usually it ends up being more like six months. It could even be a little bit more than that, could be eight months, could be 10 months. Really depends on your starting point and where you’re at. but also important to be said, there is a large advantage that comes to working with a coach before you’ve started on your contest prep with them because there’s a lot of learning that comes with your coach and you know, both you learning their preferences and vice versa, them learning kind of how you best function mentally.

How your body kind of responds to different things, everyone’s a little bit different, even though there are these general principles and recommendations that we try to follow. so the sooner you know that you want to do a competition and the more time you’re willing to give yourself to, you know, if you’re if you’re in a good spot, if you have these habits built, if you have a you know a good amount of muscle for the division that you want to compete in, you might be able to just go into a prep and be fine, you know, given that you’ve given yourself enough time to get ready for it based on the shows that you have up.

But you might think, you know, I’ll be ready in twelve, you know, 16 weeks or whatever. And then your coach might tell you, you know, we’re probably gonna need like eight months here to prep. So, you know, get an outside opinion on that. Don’t just go off of what you think because they’re gonna be able to probably predict, you know, where you land on stage, how long it’s gonna take to get there. They’re gonna map help you map out that timeline. So we haven’t really talked about the importance of getting a coach. It’s kind of just been implied this whole time, but it’s really something that is highly recommended because if you haven’t gone through this process,

There’s a lot of reassurance that goes on, like this is normal, this is what you can expect, or ooh, this is not normal. This is probably a little bit more than what should be expected here. And you know, we pull things back a little bit. but going back to the timeline conversation and the shows, look to see what’s in your area. You might want to, you know, consider picking a time of year where maybe there’s a couple of shows that you can do if that’s something that’s that’s possible, because you only get five, 10 minutes up on stage, you know, for this huge journey.

And you might not end up liking the lighting or the photos that you get. or you know, hey, I was really nervous that first time. I’d love to be able to step on stage again and really, you know, nail my posing this time, nail my presentation. Maybe my peak didn’t go exactly as I’d liked to do. Really, I think it’s just an opportunity to get up there and celebrate your hard work and another, another time. but sometimes it doesn’t always work out that way. Sometimes people just want to do one show, or you know, it’s just the way that it falls. Hey, there’s only really one show around me that.

You know, make sense for this kind of time period.

Coach Alice Robeson (51:21)
Yeah, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with just wanting to do one show and to just see like I want to get my feet wet and see if I even enjoy this. you know, there are plenty of people who just want to see themselves in this in like their ideal state, like that one time in their life. Get the photos, have this be an experience and celebrate it, right? Like I I love to, you know, get my whatever I’m competing in, I love to get the photos printed out, so I can just like

Remember that just even beyond the silly like you know trophies and stuff that you get. Like the photos are really, really important. The experience is really very important. How can you document this, right? there’s so there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. and yeah, thinking about when you’re first starting out, what’s a local show that you can target? A lot of places will have multiple show options. keeping in mind if you live in a big city.

Or something like Florida or New York or New Jersey, right? Or any of the big cities in California, you’re gonna have more options available to you and you’ll be able to you know, sort of like compete more year round with less travel. But if you are living in a real really rural area, you might have one or two options available to you like in an entire year. So I like to think like, okay, do I have anyone that I know that lives, you know,

little farther away, but some you know, someplace where you would have some support, not necessarily staying with them, but you know, just having I think it’s really, really good to have support, right? When it when you go to a show if possible. and so thinking about like, all right, what kind of plan can I make?

I think I think that’s it. I think yeah.

Ben (53:02)
Perhaps this would be a good time to talk about, okay, you’ve decided you want to do a bodybuilding competition. You’ve maybe picked a show, you’ve got a coach and you’ve got a timeline, but what division do you want to compete in? that’s that’s a a a big question. and so I think people

Coach Alice Robeson (53:18)
Guys are gonna be

like, I want either men’s physique or classic physique. No one ever considers bodybuilding at all. And women

Ben (53:22)
Yep. Yep.

Coach Alice Robeson (53:25)
are gonna be like, bikini, and there are no other things in existence.

Ben (53:29)
That’s it, that’s a

pretty good generalization. And I mean, you know, for first time competitors, that’s not too inaccurate because the divisions do kind of scale with muscularity, and with muscularity comes time spent building your physique. And if you’re somebody who’s a little bit newer, but like you said, there’s the there’s the cases of the the athlete or the person who’s been in the gym for like 20 years, but they’ve just never really thought about competing. And you’re like, okay, if we diet you down.

You know, you could be a pro, you know, bodybuilder or a pro women’s physique athlete. They just they have all the muscle, they just need to, you know, show it off. But for the for the folks who maybe are newer but they want to compete, bikini or maybe figure are are kind of the the options that may appeal more. and that really depends on, you know, the what what you want out of your competition experience. some people want to get up there and hit poses where they’re flexing their muscles.

and not every division is kind of the same with that. There are divisions where they’re a little bit more based on presentation and it’s a little bit almost more pageant-like. and there’s ones that are more kind of towards the end of, okay, there’s there’s different kinds of posing. There’s posing in the way that you manipulate your body and you turn your body and you create shapes. Then there’s posing in terms of, okay, I’m flexing these muscles here and these muscles here. And there’s a lot of intricacies that that come with it.

I’m getting a little bit sidetracked though. And I think we should just talk about the different divisions that exist and maybe some of the key differences in like the posing and the requirements of the divisions. And hey, this is a great conversation because you’re an O C B judge and you know that you you have to be very familiar with the criteria for for those categories. So should we start with the women’s divisions, the men’s divisions, or what do you want to do?

Coach Alice Robeson (55:08)
Sure, we can talk about women’s divisions, I guess. and yeah, building on just real quickly what you said, just there are plenty of people, not plenty of people, there are people who can jump on a bodybuilding stage and do very, very well on their first show. But for the most part, even even someone who’s been training, you know, their whole lifting arguably their entire lives, there is something to be said about having bodybuilding

specific programming that’s going to give you a better look when you get on stage. It’s definitely an art in the training format as well. So yet another reason that like having a dedicated coach can be so helpful. And in in thinking about like do I want to spend a chunk of time training before I make the decision to to go into prep just to sort of like finalize and make sure your symmetry is good when you get up there, right? So, anyways, the the f the women’s divisions. I mean bikini

We’re gonna have a softer look, right? You definitely need to look like you lift. you’re not gonna do well if you get up there and it’s and it’s just sort of been like just a diet. There hasn’t been like a a a solid foundation of lifting prior to that, especially in the glutes. I think a lot of women who are into fitness are get really, really good at giving shape to their upper body.

But a lot of times there’s a gap in like not enough lower body heavy training, right? Not enough lower like heavy squats and deadlifts, glute-specific training. So you don’t have to get nearly as lean for bikini, which is another really, really good like tempting that makes what makes it such a tempting category because your several percentage points body fat higher than figure and especially women’s physique.

Know the poses are a lot more simple, they’re a lot more sexy. actually, in the OCB, like there’s front pose and then there’s back pose, and then there’s a walk to the back, which is considered a pose. And that in and of itself is sort of an art and something you need to perfect as well. so a lot of women are really attracted to bikini. It’s very glamorous, it’s fun.

There’s tons of competitors, so you there’s never gonna be and I say that people are like, there’s lots of competitors. Believe me, if you are like going for figure or women’s physique or wellness, there can be plenty of times when you show up to a show and there’s no one else there competing against you. So be grateful that there are lots of bikini girls because

You’re gonna have a good competition, right? You’re gonna have more chances for a pro card because if you show up and you’ve done all this competition prep and you’re the only one, there’s no pro card even to be awarded. So it’s really, really great to just sort of put into put into perspective that way. I think the culture, and I talked to you about this before, Ben. I think the culture in the bikini division is overall very positive and lots of like girl support and girl friendship in there. I’ve had lots of really great ac

experiences backstage. So bikini is probably like where the vast majority of people are gonna go. lots and lots of emphasis on glutes and and delts, I’d say, right? and then you got wellness. This is the newest category. and this is gonna be lower body dominant. You still have to have a very fit upper body, you still have to have.

more leanness than bikini, which I think a lot of people don’t realize. You have to be a lot leaner for wellness, but you’re gonna have much lower glute, much much larger glutes, much fuller hamstrings and quads and calves. So your bot your lower body is going to be very, very predominant in this in this category. love it. I think it’s a beautiful category. It’s still growing and maturing so it can be

Unless you’re competing at the very, very highest level, it can be really hard to find other competitors, at least in the natural divisions. But I really if anyone’s interested in checking out a a competitor that’s doing very well and at the high level, Daiane Ozorio, she’s on Instagram and she’s an amazing example of what wellness is is moving towards and should be looking like, right? Definitely leading the way there. figure.

Figure is gonna be definitely one of the more muscular categories, like what people think of as like, okay, this is this is women with muscle, right? you’re gonna be a lot more upper body sort of development compared to the the former, both both former categories. there’s a lot of emphasis on what they call the X-frame. So you’re gonna do well in figure if you have big lats.

big lats give you sort of like that really, really tiny waist look. the really full quads, lots of detail in your quads comes from having more leanness than the than the other categories, right? So with with your with your wide lats and with your really developed quads, you know, you get that nice like X-frame look. I think I think a lot of

This is achievable for a lot of women. you definitely have to have good genetics, I think, for for this category. It’s very specific. It’s kind of the women’s equivalent to classic physique, right? Just like classic physique. There’s very, very specific look people want in there. but I love figure. It’s really interesting seeing women with big flared lats. We don’t normally see women in in this, like try to look.

this particular way, but when you when you see a lineup and a really nice competitive show, it’s like, wow, this is this is like so strangely beautiful and mesmerizing. It’s a really cool, cool category, guys. and women’s physique, basically the equivalent to women’s bodybuilding. And I think in was it is in I WNBF they do have a women’s bodybuilding category. but this is going to be

Just basically as much muscle as you can max out all over. They still want you to look feminine, of course. They still want you to be able to pose like an absolute queen. Really be able to showcase yourself in all of these different muscularity poses. It’s a really cool category because it’s the only one where you don’t have to wear heels.

but yeah, you wanna have fully developed upper body, fully developed lower body. I think a lot of women can can get here eventually. I think that a lot of women it’s it’s rarer for women to to reach that level or even aspire to be that level. But it’s really, really cool, especially if like you you for you see yourself just trying to like

compete in in that in in a mu in a purely muscular category, right? that’s what I’m trying to achieve. We’ll see where I’m at when I lean out some more. hopefully my my arms and my upper body are there. but it’s beautiful. it’s really, really cool when you when you see these ladies on stage. if you’re looking to see like what women’s physique looks like, you know, checking out something like the Yorton Cup,

They they were they posted on YouTube every single year ’cause yeah, it’s it’s just it’s just not something you see every day, right? did I leave anything do we want should we talk about f Fitbody?

Ben (1:02:19)
Yeah, I mean I think fit body, women’s physique, women’s bodybuilding are all quite similar in that you’re pretty much trying to to max out the amount of muscle you have and and and it’s the highest category in terms of conditioning and and leanness as well. So there might be subtle differences in the posing or slightly in the criteria between the organizations, but I think that’s that’s pretty comprehensive.

Thank you for going through all of that. I think that will be really insightful for people who are listening and haven’t, you know, been aware of what the categories are, the divisions are and the criteria. should we switch over to the men’s category and talk about men’s physique, classic physique and body building?

Coach Alice Robeson (1:02:55)
Yes, please.

Ben (1:02:56)
Okay. again, since you are the the you know, the de facto judge on the podcast, I figure it would make the most sense for you to kind of go over the again the kind of male categories and then I can kind of give my meta thoughts on all of this at the end.

Coach Alice Robeson (1:03:10)
Okay, sure. All right. the so men’s physique is sort of the men’s equivalent to bikini. it’s gonna have the you know the the smallest amount of muscle, but that’s not to say these men don’t have muscle. There’s lots and lots of interesting shape and differences in men’s physique that I think a lot of people don’t really realize when they when they go to a men’s physique show.

So it’s a lot more about being, I’d say, upper body dominant, right? There’s you are required to have some quad sweep. They do love, love, love seeing those diamond calves, but you’re wearing board shorts. So you’re wearing basically like, you know, a bathing suit. and I love the colors that some of these competitors bring on stage. so you’re really going to be building, again, very, very wide lats.

that’s probably the most important, arguably the most important part of your physique for men’s physique. You want to have capped delts to sort of complete the look. I think a lot of people kind of jokingly and lovingly call the men’s physique category like the Dorito look. You’re very much like just this triangle, very, very small waist, wide lats, and then to complete the look, those nice capped.

delts on your shoulders. A little bit of trap development, but not not as important when they want to see, of course, biceps and triceps looking nice. Some forearm development is nice, but you know, think Dorito, think martini glass. Like that is sort

Ben (1:04:41)
Mm-hmm.

Coach Alice Robeson (1:04:42)
of the shape that you’re that you’re aiming for. And what a lot of people don’t realize is they actually really value sort of like the 2D muscle look in men’s physique.

So you while you still want to have big muscles, you don’t necessarily want to have as bulging and full of muscle bellies as as they say, like you would want to see in the other categories, right? So they really value like that’s those square pec looks for your chest. they really it’s an interesting pose because a lot of the the competitors are kind of like

leaning forward and maybe put pushing shoulders forward a little bit just to give you this really neat effect on stage. men’s classic physique, think Arnold Schwarzenegger. This is what pretty much every guy aspires and dreams of, I think, when when they first think about bodybuilding because there’s such that strong association with Arnold, right? They have the black sort of speedo-looking trunks

They do sort of cover most of your glutes, right? So a little bit smaller than the board shorts, but not nearly to the extent of a men’s bodybuilding trunk, right? you’re looking for once again that X-frame. So you want to have as big and full quads as possible, lots of detail in your quads, and you want to have as wide of lats as possible.

so it’s really fun seeing the people that show up to these these competitions because it it’s so much in your genetics for for for this particular category, like how your muscle grows and how your lats fill out, right? And how your lats get wider and how your upper backs get wider. But this is if you think about like what is class like the classic bodybuilding look. really, really good symmetry, like your your physique is just like like

Almost a statue, like this, think statuesque perfection. so people love this. You want to have a lot fuller muscle bellies than men’s physique. Of course, lower body development is absolutely hugely important. You want to have glutes, you want to have quads and hamstrings, whole look, the whole package. men’s bodybuilding, I feel like is not popular right now, and I’m so sad about it because.

As a judge and as a coach, I go to these competitions and I see so many guys in men’s physique and classic physique that I think to myself, you could do so well in men’s bodybuilding. And and they don’t. They don’t they don’t compete in that category. You have much smaller trunks, right? So you wanna it’s revealing of the of most of the glutes, right? you can get colorful cl trunks, they don’t have to be all black.

similar to you know women’s physique. You want musculature to be as capped out as possible throughout the entire body, right? so you don’t necessarily have to have those huge wide lats. A small waist is always going to be valuable like it is in any category, but it’s not as like as central as it is to men’s physique and classic physique.

So thinking like very, very full muscle bellies, as round as we can get those muscles. I think like you think about these guys in their and their back like double bicep pose, and you want to be able to see like the these high peaks of their biceps. You want to be able to see these full, full triceps. So think of that, but like every single like as much and every single pose as possible.

In men’s bodybuilding, you’re gonna have way more poses. You’re gonna they’re gonna get you up there and do, you know, your front, your standard front, side, back, other side, but you’re also going to be going through so many. There’s there’s for men’s bodybuilding, they keep you up there for a while. And I’m sure Ben can talk about his experience with this, but they’re comparing you in every single side, every single side tricep, every single chest.

I remember when Carson went up for his show in in Norfolk, the the head judge called side serratus and he was not expecting that at all and we and he hadn’t really practiced that pose at all. So sometimes they can pull out some really interesting requests. they’ll they’ll have you show off your hamstring and like guys are like kicking their hamstring behind them.

Actually moving throughout this pose. So I I love this sport and I love all the categories. And if you’re a if you’re a male listening to this, please give men’s bodybuilding a consideration. It is a really, really like fun category. in a lot more body shapes, I feel like fit into this category, and it’s not popular enough. And I would love to see it gain some more popularity here soon.

Ben (1:09:34)
Those kind of funny little poses like the the side serratus, the like display, you know, one calf or the display your hamstring. Those were I remember I was like a couple weeks out from my shows and I like read the fine print and I saw that they could call those poses. So I’m like, shoot, better practice them. And I found that they were they were kind of fun ones to do, actually. especially the

The side serratus that like it’s a really cool looking pose when you’re really lean because it’s like you just have you’re like, what are all of those muscles just running down the side of my torso? And they ended up calling, I forget I which show it was, but I’m pretty sure I know that they called side serratus, and I think they did the the calf or the hamstring one at a couple shows as well. So it’s like you never know what’s gonna get what’s gonna get pulled out, and that’s why practicing your posing is so important. And so whatever category you decide.

And kind of speaking on that whole breakdown, just consider, you know, what what category is gonna allow you to have the most fun and enjoy being up there? and if you, you know, it it depends all on why you’re doing your show, right? Are you trying to, you know, maximize your competitiveness? Then that might mean you choose a category that maybe you prefer a little bit less, but you’re more competitive in versus, you know what, I actually don’t care as much about the placing. I just want to compete in the category that appeals the most to me.

There’s no right answer. and you and your coach can kind of talk through that together and decide. and no matter what, you know, division you decide that you want to compete in, you’re gonna have to put time and effort into your posing, and you’re most likely going to need to hire a posing coach as well to help work with you. as bodybuilding coaches, we obviously know all of the poses and we might have some cues to help you kind of work through it, but there isn’t really a replacement, in my opinion, for

having somebody who specializes in posing to be able to either in person

Coach Alice Robeson (1:11:19)
Yeah.

Ben (1:11:20)
or remotely talk you through the poses, give you cues, help you, you know, with the rounds and figuring things out. Again, you know, depending on the division, depending on if you’ve competed before and how quickly you pick up posing and your body awareness. Like if you previously were like a dancer or a gymnast, you might actually be able to just pick it up and do pretty well with it. And you might not need to hire a posing coach. But if this is something that’s completely foreign and new to you, it’s probably going to be something that

you’ll need to invest it and you’ll be happy that you did because even a couple of sessions will make a huge difference. and then it’s practice, practice, practice. you know, practicing oftentimes a lot of competitors are practicing daily. They might practice in the morning and in the evenings, they might practice post workout. You gotta practice your symmetry rounds. If you’re in a division that has muscularity rounds, you’re gonna have to practice those poses, practice your endurance because you don’t wanna be up there shaking or sweating off your tan. you wanna look polished, you wanna look

practiced and you want to look like you’re having up there having a good time too. And if you’re really focused on posing and you’re in your head and it’s not almost second nature to you, you’re gonna have a really hard time focusing on the the presentation and the and kind of that pageantry side where, you know, you’re smiling at the audience. you know, maybe you’re you’re looking at the judges, whatever it is. and that’s really important as well, is just being up there looking like you’re having a good time, smiling, being present because you’re more likely going to have eyes drawn to you and posing.

can make a really big difference. It can be the difference between, you know, placing a couple spots higher or lower because let’s say you can’t flare your lats and that’s a division where you need to have that, you know, that that taper. You could have the best lats in the world, but if you don’t know how to get them to to flare out and create that effect, it doesn’t matter. It’s all about what, you know, what they see up there. you might be able to choose the poses and well not choose. You’re gonna have to do the poses that they call, but you might be able to

Hit a pose in a certain way that’s a little bit different, but still within the, you know, the ex you know, range of acceptability for what they’re looking for. And that specific way that you hit it displays your physique best. and everyone’s physique is different, obviously. So there’s so many little nuances and little tips and tricks that that come with posing and presenting your physique. And it’s fun. It’s fun to get to learn how to display your physique.

the best that you can. And even folks who are lifestyle, like there’s a lot that you can learn from bodybuilders in terms of posing and learning how to display your physique best so that you you know, you’re able to be more confident as well in your physique.

Coach Alice Robeson (1:13:42)
Yeah, absolutely. I didn’t really touch on the conditioning part of it, but yeah, the higher up in the categories that you get, the more lean you have to get. and I think this is really important for the men’s distinction as well. in bodybuilding, you know, they will they’ll s they’ll say, Are you are you shredded or are you ripped, right? Or grainy, right? If you ripped and grainy

probably being more like or excuse me shredded and grainy being more the bodybuilding. So you want to be so lean that you can literally not only see like muscle fibers, but more veininess, more vascularity, right? So and then you can actually kind of be penalized a little bit if you are too grainy for men’s classic physique.

course we still want to see some s there’s there’s gonna be some striations because we can’t control where our body loses loses fat, right? but you know if if you’re down to the point where like, we’re seeing we’re seeing graininess in the glutes in classic physique, like probably you’ve probably taken it too far, right? And and and in the end of the day it it doesn’t end up equating like too many more body fat percentage points, but the look is very, very, very different. so

in women’s obviously it’s men are capable of getting so much more shredded than women just by default we have to carry a little bit more body fat but it is interesting, you know, seeing those differences in women’s physique compared to figure, not as much not as much shredded and grainy look in figure as it is in women’s physique. but yeah, love the categories. there’s there’s a lot to consider and I think I think there is

really really good thing to think about like what what would you enjoy more that even if your body might be more suited towards one category than the other. I think I think it’s worth talking to your coach about it and really sort of just preparing yourself like okay maybe maybe my placings won’t be as good but I will also say that as a bodybuilder again just walking around and being this the this leader and this in s inspirational figure.

Like to your community, to your family, to your friends. Lay persons that don’t compete, they don’t know. They don’t know, they don’t they don’t usually even ask, how well did you place? They just see that picture of you and they’re just like awestruck and taken aback and they want to pick your brain about how you work out and how you eat. maybe even a little bit about veganism, right?

so it doesn’t necessarily matter to the rest of the world how well you place in bodybuilding. Just just being a bodybuilding athlete can just be such a cool thing and such a nothing else is more compelling to me than than just like living that athlete lifestyle and being that example for others. I get very, very motivated by that.

Ben (1:16:34)
And I think if you’re somebody who has an interest in bodybuilding, but you have some fears or limiting beliefs about could that be me, could I do it? I would say just continue on your process, continue on your journey. keep focusing on those daily habits. You’ll be surprised, you know, what what you can do. And if you, you know, if you get to the point where you’re ultra consistent with these things and you’re doing the lifestyle thing and you’re doing it really well.

And bodybuilding is something that feels a little bit scary. because again, it’s like, you know, maybe it’s an identity thing, like, I’ve never been the fit person, but now you are, but you still have a little bit of that mindset or mentality of being the, you know, the person who was maybe out of shape or go who got poked fun of and that’s, you know, affected your confidence. obviously, you know, having a coach to kind of, you know, help pick you up and build you up is is gonna be helpful. But I would say if it’s something that you really want to do, but you’re just not sure if you can,

I would say, first of all, maybe, you know, if you don’t have a coach, they’re they’ll probably let you know if they think it’s in the cards for you. but don’t automatically assume that it’s something that you could never do. Cause there’s a lot of people who kind of maybe want to do it, but they just don’t they don’t have the confidence to it. They don’t feel like they could. it’s a different thing if you feel like, you know, you it’s something that you you ha I don’t know if there’s anyone that feels like they have to do it, but it’s it’s a different thing if it’s like I just don’t really want to do that.

and it’s not something that I’m interested in versus like it is actually something that I’m interested in. I just don’t know how far off I am. or if it’s something that could be in the cards for me. All that to say, you know, I think mm if if somebody really put their mind to it, a lot of people would be surprised of you could probably get this done if you set it again. All the caveats that we’ve given over the course of the episode. You have a coach, you’re, you know, you’re doing all the things that you need to be doing. It’s gonna be hard, but I think it is a really transformative experience for a lot of people. So

We’re definitely not, you know, shouting from the rooftops, everyone should compete in bodybuilding. But that all that to say, you know, if you’re tuning into this podcast, you’re probably somewhat interested in if you’re seeing the title and you’re clicking on it and you’ve listened all the way through to this point, you’ve probably got a little bit of a, you know, that spark in the back of your mind and you’re thinking, Could that be me one day? And I’m just here to say, like, you know, it can be if you really want it to be. So

Coach Alice Robeson (1:18:44)
It can be. Especially being in natural, being in the natural sport. You know, one thing about competing as a natural athlete, natural bodies look different than bodies that have been on these steroids and PEDs for extended amounts of time. You know, when it’s natural, there’s more variety of there’s more variety of bodies that do well, which is a good thing. Which is a good thing. And we’re gonna see

you know, what’s more realistic, especially in the sort of beginner levels when you’re watching an amateur show. So just because like don’t think, you know, if you’re thinking about doing bikini and you’re like, I don’t think I look anything like Ashley Kaltwasser, you know, that might not necessarily mean that you would do bad in the sport. so don’t, you know, I I think I think it’s a lot more inclusive in the natural realm. And that’s part of the reason why I love it. I love this sport so much.

And why I don’t even think about like even I don’t even want to give my money to the NPC and IFBB because of how far they have let us stray away from what is natural and giving people these these unrealistic ideas about bodybuilding, like and making people literally afraid to try bodybuilding, right? So the natural sport is a really, really cool thing, guys. So that’s just that’s just what I wanted to add in conclusion.

Ben (1:20:08)
Yeah, I love that. I mean, bodybuilding, you know, originally was about health and longevity. And that’s kind of what we want to what we believe in and what we want to to strive for. And just a reminder as well, like, you know, the people that you see on social media, unless, you know, they have a history of competing and, you know, they’re they’re natural and they’re drug tested and all this sort of thing. if they’re just an influencer and this is their career and this is how they make money, and you know, they have physiques that are like

you can’t believe, you know, the way that they look, it’s a possibility that they, you know, there there’s something else going on there. And, you know, just focus on you, focus on your own journey, and that’s going to give you the most fulfillment at the end of the day. So thanks Alice for joining me on this journey. This was, I feel like, probably the most comprehensive we could do in the time that we we have. We, I mean we’ve already been going for 90 minutes here and I’m sure we could say more, but this feels like a good place to leave it. If there are any topics or questions that we did not

Cover or answer, please leave them down in the YouTube comments and we’ll either save them for a follow-up podcast or we’ll do our best to respond to them there. And if you’re interested in knowing more about coaching, about stepping on stage, or just about kind of getting those lifestyle habits established so that maybe you can work towards that one day or you know work towards other fitness goals. That’s what we do here at Vegan Protein. So you can check out the description to fill out an application to work with us, and we’ll get back to you as soon as possible. You can find us on

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