Ep 240 – Is Protein Powder Unhealthy?

In this episode, Alice and Giacomo take a deep dive into vegan protein powders: past, present, and future.

They break down the history of plant-based proteins, compare blends vs isolates, address common concerns around amino acid profiles, digestion, heavy metals, sweeteners, and cost, and explain why perfection isn’t necessary to meet protein goals.

The conversation also explores emerging yeast-based “vegan whey” proteins, flavoring strategies, baking and cooking applications, and how to choose a protein powder that fits your goals, budget, and preferences, without fear or misinformation.

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TRANSCRIPT

[Alice]

Welcome back everybody to another episode of Vegan Proteins Muscles by Brussels Radio. My name is Alice.

[Giacomo]

And I’m Giacomo.

[Alice]

And here we go.

[Giacomo]

Well, thanks so much for tuning in to another episode. I hope that you’ve been enjoying the different stuff we’ve been putting out. We’ve been certainly having fun coming up with different things to talk about.

But before we get into what’s going on right now and what we’re going to be talking about today, I want to check in with you, Alice, because I haven’t seen you in a couple of weeks. I’m used to traveling with you all the time. Honestly, what’s on my mind right now is getting to go on a cruise with you.

And we have a whole new group of people that are coming through from the community, friends and whatnot. I just can’t wait. Honestly, like I’m already looking forward to it.

He’s talking about how it’s getting darker and darker here. And the seasonal depression to just brace myself for it. I’m like, sunshine, Caribbean, please, March, please.

And if you’re listening, you’re out there and you want to join us, come on through. We’ll go out to dinner every night. We’ll get off the ship together.

We’ll hang out. We do classes and instruct in the morning. We have a nutrition panel that we’re on later on in the day.

It’s a lot of fun. And honestly, the schedule is jam-packed. In January, they announced the schedule.

It’s like literally, it’s one of those things where you could literally do something all day long, every day, the entire time you’re on the ship.

[Alice]

Yes. I was pleasantly surprised. Not that I’ve ever been on a cruise and been unhappy.

I’m generally very happy on the boat and I’m one of those people that could just stay on the boat the entire time. I don’t have to go on every single excursion. But no, having all of those classes, there’s too many good classes.

You’re going to get that schedule when you board. And it’s like, how do I ever make a decision? Then you seriously take out a pen and paper and start trying to make some decisions.

And you’re like, oh crap. These two that I want to see are happening at the same time. These two that I want to see are happening.

It’s just jam-packed full of such good content and such interesting speakers. People you see on social, in the vegan community are really there. And I’m getting to see Dr. Barnard talk in person. Life-changing, I think. I think. And yeah, being amongst so many other vegans, it’s almost unreal.

It feels like the entire ship is vegan, even though technically it’s not. But we do take over the ship. You can see everyone walking around with our little badges.

You have to have your badge on. They let you into the lectures. They’re supposed to be checking that on the vegan part of the buffet, but I don’t know if anyone really is.

It’s very official. And it’s a blast. You’re going to want to go again and again.

I promise.

[Giacomo]

Nice. It’s funny. You and I are taking different directions right now because you are going harder in the, I’m going to spend more hours training and I’m going to get into different sports.

Like you’re doing the strong man now, not just focusing on muscle hypertrophy and bodybuilding. Meanwhile, I am like, I’ve been beating my body and submission for a while and I need to balance this thing out. And it’s been nine weeks in a row of mobility stretching for like over an hour a week.

And I’m just starting to actually feel good. Dare I say, not that I have chronic pain that I just managed because I train really hard. So it was just interesting how I, and I’m genuinely curious to know how the training is affecting you so far and what you’re thinking in terms of your upcoming competition, which will be, you’ll be doing here in Massachusetts, right?

In January, really? Yes.

[Alice]

Yeah. I was like, wait, I’m going to see you before the cruise. I’m going to see you in January.

Hopefully as long as nothing vegan strong comes up, but yeah, that’s up in Maine. I’m going to be competing in the main event and it’s pretty close to y’all’s house. It’s nice.

Very convenient. How has it impacted my, just by everything? I would say that since I started to calm the freak down and actually try to honestly train at the correct RPE range that I am a functional human being again.

That’s the hardest, like I’m used to training just like one or two reps from failure with everything. And so having to reprogram your brain, like it’s harder than you and I expected. I think, I think a lot of people would find this challenging because it’s just like part of your ego.

Like, man, I can lift this. I know I can. I did it, you know, last week, but in such weeks ago, then you’re purposefully putting on less weight onto the bar.

It’s like, sad face. So I think it’s like we’re at month three now. This is like, I just started week 13.

I think just having literally three, like almost three months of training and wiping myself out. It’s just, it’s almost like being beaten into submission. And as far as like, I’m not really testing my mobility, but I can say that my cardio-mascular health has improved.

[Giacomo]

Yeah.

[Alice]

Yeah. And even without doing like formal cardio, it’s just happening. I think it’s just a lot for me personally.

I think it’s the fact that I am doing so much more with upper body. Like, of course I was training upper body before, but training for hypertrophy and training for some of these strong man lifts, like it’s, your nervous system is just like, Oh, alarm’s going off. You get more winded than, than I do, you know, training bodybuilding style.

So I think that’s been the big change for me. The biggest thing I’ve noticed is just like, yeah, now that I’m doing some upper body stuff, like whole cardiovascular health is transforming in a good way. So it feels good.

It feels like, all right now, I don’t know. Sometimes you wonder like, can I call myself like an athlete when I have terrible cardiovascular health? So I feel, I feel a little bit more deserving.

[Giacomo]

I hear you. How are you doing right now with your goals? As far as, are you in a calorie surplus?

Are you at maintenance? How do you usually eat when you’re not in a calorie surplus versus now? Have you eating habits changed?

[Alice]

Yeah, I’m in a calorie surplus now. The weight gain is so slow that it’s not something that you step on the scale and like, you’re slowly watching it climb. It’s just sort of like, I step on the scale to make sure that it’s mostly staying even.

When a certain amount of time has passed, it’s like, all right, let’s make a point to eat a little bit more. And so far I’ve been able to be successful like that. I don’t think I’m going to be able to get away with that in the next several months because I’m reaching a point where it’s getting harder to gain weight.

So I’ll probably have to start tracking more diligently again. But you know, of course I’m always tracking in my head. I can do that to a certain degree as long as I’m staying within like the normal things that I eat, normal portions that I eat.

I’m sure that’s going to start getting a little less comfortable here in a few months because I got a ways to go. I have another 10 pounds that I want to gain.

[Giacomo]

Gotcha. Over here, I’ve been probably in maintenance for a little bit of time and I’m weighing out whether or not I want to go into calorie reduction mode again. Part of me doesn’t want to deal with the whiplash of back and forth because I’m really lean.

It’s just a matter of like splitting hairs, but is it worth it for the kind of behaviors that I’m going to wind up creating to be in calorie reduction mode and then to get out of it? And I wind up trying to give myself a soft pillory landing, but I still get whiplash when I get out of calorie reduction mode because it’s like no amount of discipline is going to change how I feel. And then my behaviors follow suit.

And before you know it, it’s like, well, did I really need to up the food noise like this? But I will tell you this, I like what I like and I love what I love. And maybe it just has to do with my bodybuilding roots, right?

Because our community isn’t just bodybuilders. We have like all kinds of people here, including people that are just getting into fitness for the first time and they don’t have any specific aesthetic or strength-based goals. They just want to feel good and have more energy.

But for me on a personal level, I had initially gotten into fitness in the bodybuilding world. And in the bodybuilding world, what’s the first thing you think about nutritionally when it comes to fitness?

[Alice]

Cutting.

[Giacomo]

Oh, no, no, no. Nutrition. Protein powder.

Everybody wants protein powder. It’s like, it’s the thing. And it’s been, oh gosh, we made it.

It was how we got started over here at Vegan Protein. Some of you listeners who have been around here since the beginning and have been since before we even had the podcast back in 2008. That’s how long we’ve been doing this.

We got our start as the world’s first and only online vegan supplement shop. So we have really, really deep roots. And of course, what were we doing?

We were making vegan protein powder accessible to everyone because it was so hard to find. When I had first went vegan, my hesitation with crossing the line and being like, okay, I’m going to do this, was that I was afraid to give up whey protein. All the magazines said I needed it.

It had the perfect amino acid profile for muscle protein synthesis. I knew I could get all the protein I wanted rather lazily, but also a better, more bioavailable protein source. But then back in 2002, when I was scouring the internet and I saw an athlete, Mike Maller, slinging pea protein, I was like, oh, wow.

And look at this dude. He knows what he’s doing. People knew of him in my gym.

I was like, okay. So I ditched away and I went to the pea protein. I was like, look at this.

And then I looked for some social proof and social support back in 2002. So I went to Robert Cheek’s site and he was doing his bulletin board thing on vegan bodybuilding and fitness pre-social media era. And people were talking about more than just pea protein.

They were getting into all kinds of different plant-based proteins. The big thing back then was True Nutrition, which is still here to date. But back then they called their pea protein Gemma.

It was their brand name. And people were like into it on the forums. But then right around that time…

Say it again?

[Alice]

Is that G-E-M-M-A? How do you spell that?

[Giacomo]

G-E-M-M-A?

[Alice]

G-E-M-M-A.

[Giacomo]

Wow. Yellow protein, yellow peas, and it was pea protein isolate. And that was the thing commercially available through True Nutrition.

So it was an off-label, whatever, warehouse kind of situation. Some of you might remember DPS, Discount Performance Supplements, that website. It was one of those kinds of places where you could just buy all the things and just load up your cart with a couple of hundred dollars of protein powder.

But then there were brands coming out too. There was Nitro Fusion, which eventually became Plant Fusion, and that was becoming commercially available. General Health made a cool Vegan Proteins Plus brand, which I thought was neat because they used the word vegan.

We’re like, yes. And Vega came on the spot, right on the market right around then too. So that was what it was like back then.

And then even rice protein started to become popular with Sun Warrior. That was one of the brands that put it out on the market. So that was the history of protein powders, if you will, Alice.

And I promise I won’t take over the conversation. And I definitely want you to ask me a ton of questions because you and I have known each other for a very long time now, but we haven’t gotten a chance to nerd out and stuff together. But I will tell you, just like you and I do the vegan strong thing now, back in the day when we had our supplement shop, we would go out and we would put protein powder on the table, and that was all you were talking about.

It was brand new. And everyone was looking for like, there were all kinds of questions. Well, whey protein has one gram of carbs instead of three.

And we’re like, yeah, but plant-based protein doesn’t have any cholesterol, and it’s better for your health. And people were like, literally splitting hairs over these things. And then the other argument was like, well, you don’t get the same amino acid profile in peas that you do in whey.

And we’re like, yeah, you’re right. But we found out the right blend. And if you blend 70% pea and 30% rice, you get the same exact amino acid profile as whey protein.

And that was a big selling point because people were like, all right, well, we don’t need to take in dietary cholesterol. Your body manufactures what you need, and it’s a cleaner source. But then you know what the other argument was, Al?

Heavy metals.

[Alice]

Because the- Really, people were talking about this initially, right?

[Giacomo]

Way back in the day. Because I will tell you this, I will give it to Plant Fusion. They knew from the start, before any other plant-based protein powder company was doing it, they knew from the start, because of their testing, and they tested for heavy metals, because they knew the soil microbes would have a certain amount of heavy metals, and the plants would absorb it.

And then of course, when you have an isolate, there’s that, okay, is it more than a few parts per million of heavy metals? Should we be concerned about this? And a lot of people got up in arms about that.

And of course, our bias back then was like, just eat plants, dammit. But there was really some truth to that. And Plant Fusion was testing for it.

And that’s why they put a little bit of a blend in there. They would put artichoke and amaranth and quinoa, because these are cleaner sources, and it would lessen the risk. But they still tested the pea and the rice-based proteins, and tried to trust whoever they got it from as much as possible.

They did their own in-house testing as well. So that was a big conversation back then too. You know what the other really crazy thing was?

People were interested in hexane, and how hexane was involved. Because it’s a neurotoxin. So it’s involved in the process of extracting.

If you look at the way that all protein powders, not just plant proteins, all protein powders are extracted with a certain process. And as long as you can trust the source, you know that even though the hexane is used in the process, there’s such a minuscule amount that it doesn’t even matter. It’s negligible.

It’s more than generally recognized as safe. It’s completely negligible. But if that’s a concern of yours, hey, go organic if you’re willing to pay for it.

[Alice]

Organic. Hold that thought right out of my mind.

[Giacomo]

There you go.

[Alice]

I think that you had a lot of really good things. Obviously, you’ve been vegan a lot longer than I have. I’ve been vegan since 2018.

And so I’m on, like, I don’t know, a math, seven, eight, year seven or something like that. And I remember first going vegan. And I didn’t know it.

I was not as into fitness as I am now, obviously. And the protein powders, I found to be very confusing. And after I got into all of the stuff on the internet that was sort of pointing you in the direction of like, go for your cleaner proteins, like hemp and rice is good for digestion.

And of course, the whole initial reason that I went vegan was for my ulcerative colitis being out of control. So me thinking, you know, these will be the cleaner, more easily digestible protein powders. Maybe I should go for those.

So I remember going and ordering just really off the wall brands at the time and quickly found out that, man, I do not like the taste of hemp protein. It’s super, super grassy. The rice protein by itself always tasted really like sort of thick.

And like, you really, really know when you’ve got rice, like too much rice protein in the mix, right? So after that, like, there was a long time where I just didn’t use a whole lot of protein powder. If I did, I might have ordered just pea protein.

And I was careful to order it from Canada to try and get, you know, less metals in there. But yeah, I didn’t feel like a whole lot of people were talking about the metals at the time specifically. I felt like they were just talking about like how things were ground and the soil quality overall, right?

And I feel like we’ve come full circle because now, just a few months back, we had that article come out that’s talking about, oh, look at all this, you know, all these heavy metals, all this lead, all this cadmium in plant-based proteins. And they just sort of created their own, like, arbitrary numbers to say, like, look how high these are in heavy metals, guys, when you compare it to these animal sources. And in reality, no one actually knows.

Like, there’s still like such a small amount of heavy metal, like of metals in there that were still within easily like a safe limit, even to have it times per day. Like, so there’s a lot of talk about that recently. Do you have anything else like you can sort of add to that while we’re, before we move on from that?

Because I think it’s important for people to not be worried about the metals in your plant-based protein powders. So what do you have to add to that?

[Giacomo]

Well, it’s fear-mongering and the media sensationalizes things. And yeah, you can get a bad, bad share there, but I also say consider the alternative. What are you getting when you’re dealing with animal-based proteins and whey proteins?

How are they handling livestock? What are they feeding them? The antibiotics, the hormones, plus you have the naturally occurring hormones and cholesterol that, that animal cells are binded together by.

And we all already know that that gluey like substance cholesterol will eventually build up in your cardiovascular system, clog your arteries. And then you’re dealing with a whole new problem because you were trying to be, how do I say, you were trying to obsess over nutrition, whether you wanted a thing with zero grams of carbs or zero parts per million, as opposed to one part per million of heavy metals. So you’re missing, you’re missing, you’re trying to solve one problem and you’re creating, and you’re putting, creating risk for a much bigger problem, essentially.

That’s just the way I see it.

[Alice]

I think also, I think that’s great. Thank you. I’m sure that’s something that you would talk to people about at the booth.

I can hear, I can see you at the booth, like talking about it. I’m like, let’s booth talk. I love that.

Also just like, you know, anything that is grown in the ground is going to have metals in it because it is part of the soil. So I, not to like make everyone like freak out, but if you actually look up information about even like the spices in your spice rack, like a lot of those are going to be very high in heavy metals. And if you’re, if you are a person who’s concerned about keeping these things like as low as possible, you might need to, you might want to look into some brands that do the testing.

Cause I’m going to, I can promise you most of these grocery store brands are not testing. And so they have, again, it’s not going to be high enough numbers that it’s going to be harmful to us. But just to keep that in mind, like any kind of plant is going to have some metals in there.

So I hope that that helps to ease some people’s worries more than set alarms off.

[Giacomo]

You have to think of your brand too. You have to trust the source, family name, unmentioned, but a family friends of mine, their job is to go to farms and give them organic certs. And they tell me all kinds of stories of how they pay people off, or they have to look the other way just to push things through for political reasons or whatever.

The whole system is unfortunately corrupt is what I’m trying to say. But, but you hope, you hope that obviously if you get something that’s organic and you trust the brand itself and their integrity, that you’re going to get something good. And if they’re doing in-house testing as well, if it’s really of a concern, of course you’re going to pay for that, right?

Because you can get, you can get plant-based protein for what, say like 20 bucks a pound. But organic ones can be upwards of 60 pounds. That’s a lot of money.

And I weigh out stuff like that all the time. It’s like Michael Greger’s Dirty Dozen. Okay.

Well, I can’t buy all my fruit organic. I can’t afford it and my vegetables. So I’m going to try to buy these 12 first organic.

It’s a matter, right? Because otherwise you’re creating a whole new problem.

[Alice]

So yeah, but before we move on, one of the things that some of the things that we all love and have in our pantry is are going to be, you know, reputationally high in heavy metals, things like cocoa powder, things like cinnamon. So interestingly enough, some of the, even to even like almost like even turn up the volume of like the fear mongering in that particular article that we’ve been talking about, the, the writers said, oh, well look at this chocolate flavored soy protein isolate. Look at the metal numbers in there.

Well, now we’re not just talking about just from soy. We’re talking about probably really cheap untested cocoa powder so that you can have your flavored protein powder. So another way that you can control this guys, if this, if this is something that bothers you is get unflavored protein powder and chocolate and vanilla are the easiest things to add yourself.

Get some vanilla extract or vanilla powder, get some unsweet cocoa powder, or if you’re like me, unsweet cacao powder. And those are the two things that those are the only two things you need. That’s it.

If you’re flavoring it with chocolate, if you want a chocolate favorite, add the chocolate and a vanilla. If you’re flavoring with vanilla, just the vanilla. And then you can add your own sweetener, whichever you prefer.

You know, I’m very partial to pure monk fruit extract, not that Lakanto crap, any of that, that has sugar alcohols added. No, I like to buy the pure monk fruit extract in bulk. You can get some really good pure stevia as well in bulk that you can order if you’re looking for zero calorie, or you can just do something that’s lowering calories, right?

If you’re whatever, whatever your favorite is, like there you go. You’ve got pretty much all the flavors that you could ever drink.

[Giacomo]

Exactly. And you know us too. We’re all about moderation and balance and flexibility, and you get to pick and choose your spaces.

So you may want some sort of foods having no artificial sweeteners or this or that. And you may have other things that you want artificial sweeteners in. And it’s all about the dose, whatever it is that you’re doing.

So some people want, I’m doing it myself as well. I’m like, don’t say it. You’re going to say it backwards like you do every single.

I’ll take it for you. Thank you. But I will say that when it comes to plant-based protein powders, most of them are free of artificial flavors and sweeteners, which is kind of cool.

Cause you have a bigger, broader selection, but there are some that have artificial flavors and sweeteners. If that’s your thing, like sucrose or whatever, whether it’s ghost, people really dig that stuff. What’s the other one I have right in front of me.

Where the heck is it? Oh, true. True.

I remember it now. Yeah. My, my buddy, Sean started, started that up with, and then ambrosia is another one.

Probably. No.

[Alice]

You say true. It’s TRU, correct?

[Giacomo]

TRU. Yeah.

[Alice]

I know that brand.

[Giacomo]

Yeah. I remember seeing Willie when they started that thing up and they, but they have, they have ones that are artificial sweetener free and they have ones with artificial flavoring. So it depends on you and the ghost dude who started that company, they have stuff like that is similar to what you might be used to or what you’re in the mood for.

And that’s fine. Again, moderation, right?

[Alice]

Yeah. So I think that a lot of people listening would probably hear, oh, why in the world would we be talking about go ahead and have some protein powder that have artificial sweeteners in them? Because we’ve all been sort of like taught, like those are like, no, no, no matter what.

Well, a lot of people, even so monk fruit and stevia are great because they are natural. They are, they come from a plant. They are not artificial sweeteners, even though a lot of people talk about them as if they are artificial sweeteners, they are not.

So they are safe in that regard, but they both have an interesting flavor that takes some getting used to. Okay. Um, and if you, in my opinion, if you want the best balance, mix a little bit of the both of them.

But so the artificial sweeteners in general, people find them to be much better tasting in general. Like, especially if you’re just not really used to, if you’re like new to dieting, if you’re new to, if you’re just transitioning to a more healthier lifestyle, when you’re more used to the flavors of hyper palatable, ultra processed foods, I’ll bet you $5. You’re going to like the taste of the sucralose better than the monk fruit right now.

That doesn’t mean that that won’t change. Okay. I do want to encourage you to try the, to try the, the, the natural ones and slowly try to get used to them in your foods, because it’d good if you could eventually steer away from them.

But what Giacomo was saying, there is balance. Like if you, as long as you are not having, you know, I think the biggest concerns are people who are drinking like diet soda all days now that have the artificial sweeteners in them. Like there’s, there’s a lot of good stuff coming out that’s showing like overconsumption is really, really not good for our health.

But if it’s something that it’s a once a day or not every day kind of thing, you know, you’re going to be pretty safe. Some people are more, some people cannot actually digest them. That’s a very, very small subset of the population, by the way, guys.

So that’s, that’s why he’s talking about balance because we don’t want you to go in there and try plant-based protein powder and be like, oh, this tastes awful. If it’s unflavored, that’s, I feel like that was kind of what was happening when I first went vegan was people were very, very concerned about protein powder tastes horrible. So we have to make sure we get these brands that taste the best.

And then, you know, you go on Reddit and people are like, well, what’s the best tasting protein powder guys. And, you know, so that’s going to be really, really highly individualized. And that’s another reason why I recommend like you buy unflavored and you flavor it yourself.

What I don’t want you to do is go and buy unflavored protein powder, scoop it into a glass of water, mix it up. And then you have, if you’re doing this to yourself, you have no right to an opinion to what it tastes like, because that is just the wrong thing to do. You are wrong.

At the very least, plant milk at the bare, bare bones minimum. You have to put it in plant milk. Okay.

Don’t be like these people on Reddit, please. I’m begging you. So yeah, find, find the brand that you like, find the flavorings that you like.

Anything to add to that?

[Giacomo]

I just think back to my past when I would do anything to be healthy and be hardcore. I’m like putting in scoops of brewer’s yeast into water and mixing the unflavored protein. I think back, why did you do that to yourself?

That was so wrong.

[Alice]

Gross.

[Giacomo]

Yuck. But yes, get the blends. They’re so much better.

But I will say this is kind of a nice segue to talking about the yeast isolate proteins, which are brand new. And honestly, I didn’t know a lot about them. So I had to do some research myself.

I feel like you probably know or knew a lot more than me. And you probably had a chance like digesting process, the information about all of these. See me, I’m newer to the game, even though they’ve been around for five years.

So I started looking into it. I was like, okay, well, how do they do this stuff? Because no animals involved, right?

So what they do is they extract the DNA from cells, from animal cells, but it’s not like they’re harming an animal or testing an animal or anything like that. You could grab like a piece of hair and take the piece of hair and extract the DNA from the cell. And now you have from the biological material, you have the DNA and you can- Blueprint guys, just to give a blueprint of the DNA.

[Alice]

We’re not actually taking that and putting that into the product. People are looking at the blueprint of the DNA to create that. Go ahead, Giacomo.

[Giacomo]

Yeah, no, thank you for correcting me because I actually was going to go there. That was my train of thought and I didn’t fully understand it. So you’re already proving my point that you understand this better than I do.

So maybe I should stop trying to understand it on my own. But please, yeah, no, tell me whatever else sounds off to here. So to my understanding, okay, based on what you’re saying, you have the blueprint, not the original source, and then they take the blueprint and they insert it into using a, what do you call it?

Using biofermentation, they combine it with yeast or mushroom microbes, and they program the yeast or the mushroom through a biofermentation process to make copies of the DNA. And what you have is a yeast isolate that has the exact same taste, texture, amino acid profile as the whey protein, the end product is like that. But what the cool part is about it is that it’s cholesterol free, because again, cholesterol is something that animals need for hormone production, for their cells to bind together, but there’s no animal involved.

There’s no organism, none, which is why it’s vegan essentially.

[Alice]

Yeah, they’re able to get the yeast to grow in the same blueprint as the animal DNA. It’s not that it’s combined, it’s that they’re able to basically copy it. And you can get a lot of really interesting flavors and a lot of really interesting things happening when you do this.

Yeast is like the new thing right now. Danny just is looking at that egg, what is it? It’s like an egg white…

[Giacomo]

Animal free egg powder from healthy…

[Alice]

Made from yeast.

[Giacomo]

Egg white powder.

[Alice]

We’re having all these cool products coming out that can mimic the taste of animal products without having animals involved at all. So that’s what’s really exciting. And so literally, that’s how we’re getting these whey protein powders, but they’re completely made by yeast, basically.

So we tried space milk and really interesting flavor. I’d say it tastes, in my opinion, kind of like cake. So if you, you’re a person who really likes sweets, I think that it goes really well in sweet things.

But I would not, I probably would not myself put space milk in something like, you know, that’s, that’s more savory.

[Giacomo]

Have you tried whey protein powder?

[Alice]

The vegan whey?

[Giacomo]

No, whey protein powder before you were vegan.

[Alice]

Probably. I can’t even remember. I know, I know I used to have non vegan protein powder.

So it probably was.

[Giacomo]

Gotcha. But not enough to like really remember how it tasted?

[Alice]

No. And even if, even if I did, I think the only thing that I really had came in like this orange, like it was almost like this orange sherbet flavor. So it was highly, highly like flavored.

Probably. I probably wanted something as far away from tasting like protein powder as possible. It’s still out.

Like sometimes I see that brand like in stores and I’m like, wow. So I wish I had that like fresh in my mind. But anyways.

[Giacomo]

I have, well, I had consumed a lot, hundreds upon hundreds of pounds of whey protein powder back in the day, but I have not tried the vegan protein powder yet because I didn’t understand the science. And part of it was just kind of, I was kind of like, well, it costs more money and I don’t fully understand it, even though I trust that it’s vegan, because I know what little I knew it made sense. But also I’m like, why do I want to consume something that tastes like whey protein when I could just have something else that’s has the same amino acid profile?

The 70P30 rice blend is just, it’s, they’re pretty much on par with one another. I mean, actually, believe it or not, they’re, they are a little bit different. Like the yeast isolates, the, what is it?

The protein digestibility corrected amino acid score, the PDCAAS score of yeast isolates is slightly higher. It’s closer to that of say whey or beef than the blends of like 70P30 rice, which are closer to like, so there’s a, it’s a perfect score. It’s one.

[Alice]

It doesn’t surprise me.

[Giacomo]

And then the blends are closer to like eight, eight to nine, 0.8 to 0.9. Anything above 0.7 is considered superior for muscle protein synthesis. Right. Of course, in bodybuilding circles, which not everyone here is in that, in those kinds of circles, but they, there’s all the, is the obsession about what is ideal?

What is ideal? They’re, they’re looking for like to build an extra ounce of muscle on a body that’s already maxed out with as much muscle as possible. So to them, it actually matters.

They’re looking for the most efficient way to do it, but the yeast isolates are exactly the same, but plant-based proteins are right up there. It’s not that much of a difference. And so this score, basically just to break it down, it just means after you, after you have your protein, how much of it is digestible.

So if it’s one, all the proteins digestible and you can utilize it in your pool of amino acids for muscle protein synthesis, which means we’ve used this term a lot before, but in case you’re unfamiliar with it, your ability to build muscle, to repair your muscle tissue and build more. So like you’re, let’s say you consume a protein powder, you’re getting 20 grams of protein, all 20 grams of protein are digestible. But we’ve used this argument in the past where it’s like, you don’t have to get obsessed and caught up in the details to get the same exact results.

There will be people out there that take that approach and they’re looking for perfection. But it’s like, if you just get an extra 20 grams of protein, extra 10 to 20 grams of protein a day, which is really not that hard to do, even in calorie reduction mode, where your, where your goal is weight loss or body fat loss, and you don’t have any weight to lose. It’s not that hard to get an extra 10 to 20 grams of protein people.

You don’t have to go with the yeast isolate. The plant-based proteins are perfectly fine. You don’t have to get the perfect amino acid profile and your body will know what to do with what you digest.

And a plant-based protein is perfectly fine too, that isn’t a yeast isolate plant-based protein.

[Alice]

Yeah. I would encourage everyone listening to stop worrying about the whole complete protein thing. That whole idea came from a book called, I think it’s Diet for a Small Planet or Diet for a Hungry Planet.

And it wasn’t years after the book came out when her, when the, when the author’s, you know, whole conversation about what’s a complete protein and what’s an incomplete protein, years after it caught on, the genie was out of the bottle and everyone had all this fuel to talk smack about the plant-based proteins. She actually came out and tried to like rescind, like, and say like, actually there’s a lot of, I shouldn’t have written that basically. We now know, we now have lots of good science that shows every single plant protein is going to have all your amino acids in it.

And the scores that this arbitrary system that was created deems worthy enough. And here’s the thing, we consume protein and it’s not like, it’s not like I had, you know, my pea protein with breakfast, you know, go to the bathroom, it’s gone. No, no.

Our, we keep an amino acid pool in our bodies for up to 72 hours, I believe is what I was reading. So your body is able to pull from and create complete proteins. So don’t feel like you have to have this perfect 70% pea protein and 30% rice protein or hemp protein, if that’s your alternative.

Don’t feel like you have to do this every meal, as long as you’re just not a person who’s just eating one thing for breakfast, lunch, and dinner every single day, you’re going to be fine. You’re going to be fine. A lot of, so much nutrition science takes place in a Petri dish and not in the human body.

And over and over again, we have proven that what happens in the human body is so much more complex that the things that happen in the Petri dish, the human body has other stuff going on that literally corrects for that. And so many, you know, so many different categories, vitamins, minerals, micronutrients, and your proteins. So it’s not something that you have to be managing or thinking about, I urge you to get the protein powder that you like, and that you enjoy.

So that way, you can be successful in hitting your protein goals.

[Giacomo]

So well said, if I was thinking that you’d have taken the words right out of your mouth. And I’m so glad that you did say that because I wasn’t thinking that. And that is the way that is nutrition 101, eat in a way where you’re going to stick to your goals on a macro level.

Because if you get caught up on a micro level, you’re going to make choices that you’re going to wind up regretting, or you’re going to become unnecessarily neurotic about things. And you’re going to stress yourself out. And if you’re stressing yourself out, and you’re not focused on training really hard or sleeping or stress management, or just enjoying your food and enjoying your life, what do you if you look back, your quality of life is focused on obsessing on a micro level about nutrients and about the perfect protein and getting in only that kind of protein, as opposed to just knowing you’ll get all the essential amino acids you need, and maybe just get an extra 15 grams of protein for the day. And yeah, eat something you enjoy.

Even if it’s not protein powder, whatever, it doesn’t have to be protein powder, either. For the record, that’s just so happens to be what we’re talking about here. Just getting in on protein.

We just happen to be nerding about this stuff because that was today’s, that is today’s topic. And hey, if you like the taste of whey, but you’re vegan for ethical reasons, or for dietary reasons, or whatever, get that.

[Alice]

Get a yeast isolate. What is the what is the brand that been recommended?

[Giacomo]

I don’t know. I messaged him. No way.

There’s my protein way forward. That’s another brand that exists. Okay, God, did you also know that or gain has come out with a brand called better way?

[Alice]

Really? I’ve been hoping that you brought up or gain at some point during this podcast or gain is like, I feel like or gain has surpassed Vega in popularity. Like or gain is everywhere.

People really like the taste of or gain. And coming back to like, all right, trending on what people concern themselves about with protein powders. When we’re more worried about tastes like or gain is a really, really good one.

And so is Vega. But if you look at the actual macros of them, there’s gonna be a lot of extra carbohydrates in there a lot of it because they have all these great flavorings. These great flavorings do not come free calorie wise people.

So you have to weigh your pros and cons. And if you’re on a calorie, if you’re on a calorie deficit and trying to lose weight, sometimes it might be good to have some kind of isolate so that you can put it into something say you say you’re a person who wants to do like a little protein mug cake or something it might be better to use that than the or gain because the BAM 20 grams and extra carbs are about that, right? So that’s something to think about.

[Giacomo]

And their stuff is really heavy on the flavoring. It’s like that classic, like hyper palatable kind of protein that most people do enjoy.

[Alice]

And they’re if you’re a picky eater, try or gain or Vega.

[Giacomo]

But if you don’t like that super intense flavor profile, like or gain has, you could do something else like PB2 performance protein, and that just it’s peanut butter. So peanut butter powder, and protein powder mixed, you know, the way that I think about it is this else, I don’t know about you, but I know myself. I mean, there are times where I want to be hardcore and just chug the isolate.

And there are other times Oh, gosh, I do. So I get protein powder. And what do I do?

I add a banana, and then I add peanut butter in and then I add syrup, some sort of syrup and sweetener in. And then before you know, I turn around, I was like, I could have just had a meal, but I wanted the perfect protein power. And I throw all these things in it.

So sometimes having those blends that have a little more carbs is, in fact, a smarter move than trying to have the thing as perfect on paper, but just doctoring it up with a whole bunch of stuff. So right, two good options for that. And again, to your point, like enjoy what you eat, and just mix up your protein sources.

And it’s just much better in terms of not just eating healthier, but reaching your goals when you don’t get too caught up on a micro level with stuff.

[Alice]

And one other thing I wanted to bring up was just like, how do these protein powders taste like as an isolate? I’m not saying eat it as an isolate. I’m saying in a different variety of foods, because I experiment in the kitchen a lot.

So I like to recommend to people like if you’re baking something, he protein is usually pretty good. It does pretty well when you bake with it. If you’re having something, though, that you’re worried about any kind of graininess kind of mouthfeel, if you’re really sensitive to that kind of stuff, I just recommend you get soy protein isolate.

I’m sorry, like, I know. So there’s a lot of people trying to avoid soy for reasons that I highly, highly disagree with. And it’s Docomo too, and Danny too.

We just got to be so careful, because I know so many of you are trying to avoid soy. You don’t have to. And the truth of the matter is, soy tastes the best across almost every category of anything in vegan foods, including protein powder.

So if you are making like, I’ll give the example of right now I’m really into my Ninja Creamy and making a ice cream. We actually make a protein ice cream with silken tofu and soy protein isolate. And it is freaking amazing.

Incredible. So I can’t recommend that enough. And yeah, a lot of people are probably thinking, like I did in the beginning, like, I got to get this this hemp protein or this rice protein, because they’re healthier or easier.

If you are looking for something easier to digest, rice is like number one. Right. But like, you’re not going to like the taste of them as much.

I can almost guarantee that. So what about I mean, John, when you probably tried more of like, have you tried any of the weirder like the pumpkin or the quinoa proteins or anything that’s trending? Do you have any opinions on those and then the kitchen?

[Giacomo]

They’re not really good on their own. They go good in protein blends, in my personal opinion, each one of them have the taste is a little off. From what I as far as in the kitchen goes, I’ve traditionally been involved with recipes that are more rice based for baking than pea protein.

So it’s interesting that the pea based proteins are what you mentioned are good for baking.

[Alice]

Yeah. And actually, at one point, I think I was reaching out to Natalie about something and asking for her opinion. And she actually said the same thing.

She’s like, I recommend baking. I’m like, that’s pretty legit. If I get if I get someone like Natalie agreeing.

But also, I guess something to mention is we’re talking a lot about isolates, guys. So what does that mean? So you can buy, you know, pea protein or soy protein, or you can buy the isolate and isolate just has some of the extra macronutrients removed so that it has the most amount, the most grams of protein and the least grams of carbs and fats as possible.

So it’s just about taking things out. It’s not about adding things in, but it’s very convenient. It’s very, very convenient for especially if you’re in a calorie deficit and you’re just really, really trying to like watch every single calorie that you’re that you’re that you’re consuming.

Not that you have to have the isolate, but they’re getting more and more popular, I would say, and easier to find. You know, we’re also talking about all these different percentages and stuff. And you’re probably thinking, when in the world am I ever going to know like if this product has 70% pea protein and 30% rice protein?

Sometimes they’ll say it on their website. But if you want to have fun with that, Dr. Mel mentioned the company called True Nutrition in the beginning, and they have a custom protein powder tool where you can create anything. Now it’s not all just vegan stuff, but there’s plenty of vegan stuff, plenty of plant based proteins, plenty of flavorings.

I go on there and regularly order exactly what Dr. Mel says, 70% pea protein, 30% brown rice protein, and I all the flavorings and all the additions. I’m like, you want things and you can even imagine and it changes up. So if you’re ever like curious, I saw that like, so if you’re ever looking to try stuff like that, true nutrition, a lot of times, like has that on their site, at least for a little bit.

[Giacomo]

We’ll drop a 10% off link for that to vegan proteins, bulks of cobalt, we’ll put it in the show notes. And the price is actually because you’re making it on your own. It’s usually anywhere from deliver like 16, 17 a pound, if you’re buying more of it, you can get it closer to like 13, 14 a pound deliver, maybe even less depending on what you buy.

Whereas again, your entry level for plant based proteins that are pre-formulated for you, which again, go for it. It’s easier than sometimes easier than making something on your own if you’re not the type, 20 bucks a pound, but the organic ones can be upwards of 60 a pound. And of course the new stuff, the yeast isolates cost a little more.

They’re like somewhere in the middle to the upper, but Hey, you might wind up enjoying that not just as a novelty, but as your regular source of protein. Sorry.

[Alice]

Sorry. Sorry. I thought you were finished.

And remember, like not all of us can afford organic, like Dr. Mo keeps saying. A lot of these places are going to have non-GMO options. So that’s your happy middle ground, right?

Obviously a lot more budget friendly. A lot of stuff on true nutrition is non-GMO, something to keep in mind.

[Giacomo]

There you go. I think we, I think we did this topic justice and this conversation is pretty complete, but do you have any parting thoughts? Maybe your top three favorite plant-based protein powders or any, any final thoughts you’d want to share?

[Alice]

Well, true nutrition is always going to be my number one. I always, always, always have at least one bag. I’m usually ordering more than one bag to try and get free shipping from their website.

But just because convenient, if you’re still an Amazon person, which unfortunately I still am, we’re using the Now Sports Soy Protein Isolate. It is unflavored. It’s also non-GMO.

And then third favorite, probably some of the PB2 blends like that. The one that we’re getting from our sponsor PB2, that’s the mixture of almond butter and protein powder, which by the way, all PB2 products tend to use brown rice protein, by the way, in combination with whatever that, whether it’s nut, almond, or cashew protein that they’re combining it with. But I think that’s probably my number three favorite.

What about you?

[Giacomo]

My one in three are the same as yours. I throw plant fusion into the mix as well. When all proteins are pretty much created equal these days and every protein out there, when they’re pre-formulated especially, have the same amino acid profile.

My second thing that I go for is taste and texture. And then my third thing is what I think about the actual brands. And plant fusion and PB2 have been supporting vegan athletes since I’ve been around 17 plus years ago.

So they’re, to me, they’re in it for the right reasons. And I love them for that. And that actually is very important to me, right?

It’s one thing when it’s a recommendation, that’s more than taste and texture. Be like, oh, I like, oh, my friend likes this, so I’m going to try it. It’s a whole other thing when they’re actually using what their power and what they’re doing for good.

And they’re out there supporting vegan athletes and promoting a plant, helping us promote a plant-based diet. And to me, that’s huge. That’s absolutely huge.

And they taste good. Taste and texture is spot on as well.

[Alice]

Yeah. It’s an OG brand for sure.

[Giacomo]

In addition to the true protein, of course, which I like to experiment with.

[Alice]

Yeah, it’s fun.

[Giacomo]

Anyways, cool. Well, this was fun. If you have any questions, if you have any thoughts you want to share about different vegan protein powders that you like, that we didn’t discuss, if you want to keep this conversation going when it comes to these isolates and you have more to share, or you have some perspective or opinions on all that, we’d love to hear your thoughts.

I still have to try it myself. I think I will now. I think after this podcast comes out, I’m going to give it a shot and I’ll tell you what I think.

Even though that animal free egg white protein powder weirds me out because when it cooks up and it’s on the stove, it looks like egg whites and it tastes like egg whites. And I’m a little weird out by it, but I’m less weirded out by something like whey protein. At least I think I will be.

We shall see. TBD, because I don’t know. But anyways, this was great.

This is obviously one of the topics that I am the most passionate about, and clearly you are as well. And I want to thank you all for tuning in to another episode of Vegan Proteins Muscles by Brussels Radio. Please stay in touch with us on all of the socials.

You’ll find us all over the place. At Vegan Proteins, at Muscles by Brussels, at Vegan Proteins Alice, and all of the others. We’ll drop all of our stuff in the show notes so you can follow us and we can keep the conversation going.

More important than all of that, if you’re looking for one-on-one coaching, if you’re looking to change your life, and that’s exactly what we do over here, reach out. Go ahead and hit the contact button on veganproteins.com. You’ll hear from me.

We can have a conversation. We can hang out. We get to know each other better.

And you can see what it’s like over here, and we can help you get into the best shape of your life and the healthiest version of yourself. Once again, my name is Dr. Mo.

[Alice]

I’m Alice. And we’ll talk to you soon. Bye.