Ep 254 – From Outsider to Leader in Vegan Fitness: Giacomo’s Story

In this episode, Giacomo shares his full journey from a shy, non-athletic kid to a competitive bodybuilder and coach. He opens up about discovering confidence through fitness, how bodybuilding became a lifelong pursuit, and the lessons he’s learned over 15+ years in the gym.

The conversation dives deep into the psychology of coaching, the importance of community, and why having support can be a game changer. Giacomo also reflects on his vegan journey, the evolution of Vegan Proteins, and how purpose, discipline, and self-awareness continue to shape his path today.

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TRANSCRIPT

Ben (00:00)
Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of Vegan Proteins Muscles by Brussels Radio. My name is Ben.

Giacomo (00:05)
and I’m Giacomo.

Ben (00:06)
Thank you for tuning in to another day with us. And today we’re gonna be talking about Giacomo. We’ve been doing a little intro series for all the coaches just to let our audience know a little bit more about all of us. We’ve been growing steadily on the Vegan Proteins YouTube channel. We’ve been growing steadily on the Muscles by Brussels podcast YouTube channel which you are listening to.

Now here, we actually used to have them combined in one channel, but we decided to separate them just to keep things a little bit more streamlined. And I think that’s been working out well. And we’ve been getting really good feedback on both the YouTube videos that Dani and the twins have been mostly spearheading. then, you know, myself and, and Sawyer to an extent as well, taking over the podcast. So we wanted to just make sure that for all the people who are new to us and our

little universe that they know a little bit more about us. ⁓ and you know, the faces that they might see around, whether that’s in the YouTube videos on the main channel or coming over here, to get maybe more educational content, long form content. And, with that said, Sawyer and I have already recorded hours. Sawyer’s has already come out and people really enjoyed listening to, to his and some of the takeaways from that. And mine will be coming out, this coming Monday and then, ⁓ yours, yours will be next. So.

Before we actually jump into talking about you, Giacomo and how you got started being interested in fitness and health and nutrition and going vegan and all that stuff that everyone wants to know. even for people who have heard your story, I feel like there are always little maybe bits and pieces that come up that we haven’t discovered before. Even myself, I feel like I might learn some things today about you, which is exciting. I’d love to know at least ⁓ more presently what’s going on with you and if anything.

kind of new or exciting. Obviously we’ve been rolling out this new app of ours which we’re really stoked about and we’ve been really kind of putting all of our time and energy and attention to getting this baby up and running and as smoothly as possible. So I’d love to just hear about how you’re doing and how your day’s going.

Giacomo (01:57)
Well, I have officially broken Ben I’ve stayed relatively lean all winter and we decided to see what we could do to save on utilities. And we kept the heat at 64 and I’ve had it. I’ve absolutely had it completely lost it. Like I don’t want to wear layers anymore. I’m tired of putting on layers and taking them off. I’m tired of pretending like it’s okay. It’s not okay. I’ve been wearing the same

sweatpants every single day. I’ve been wearing the same thermals again and again. And I’ve been wearing a robe the past two months cause Dani got us robes for Valentine’s day, which is so cool. I love it. I love my robe, but sometimes you don’t want to wear a robe and sweatpants and take on and off four layers every single day. And honestly, it’s a little bit constricting. I feel like I’m in a straight jacket when I’m trying to sleep and I’m like twisting and turning and the usual knots there in my body. I’m like kind of contorted myself a little bit. And then Dani’s on the other side and she’s got her own soreness cause

she’s been kicking butt with CrossFit, it’s a new sport for her to adapt to. So like she’ll bark me in the middle of the night and she’d be like, what are you doing? Like, stay on your side. I’m like, I’m trying, I’m just trying to stay warm. So that’s what I’ve been up to. I’ve been trying to stay sane and getting ready for the humidity and the warmer weather and the changing of the seasons. Other than that, just living life friend. Like you said, you got what we’re doing here at Vegan Proteins all covered. So I figured I’d catch you up to speed with what’s been going on. I’m very much so looking forward.

to the Broad Street Run. I’ve never been there. To give you some context, we’re tabling with Vegan Strong, and we’re going to reach probably about 40,000 people in a couple of weeks. So that’ll be exciting. We’ll see how they take our messaging this year. Each year we get better and better at having these conversations with mainstream fitness enthusiasts, folks, the competitors, and what have you. So that’s been exciting, but that’s pretty much it as far as what’s been going on in my world.

I hope I don’t disappoint you because I know you put so much time and effort after you’ve so lovingly taken over the podcast. I decided to not look at any of the interview questions. I felt like you putting me on the spot. know. So prepared, really. But I felt like you putting me on the spot might lead to a better conversation, but we’ll see where it takes us.

Ben (04:05)
No, that’s actually what that thumbs up was, is I think that perhaps maybe not looking at them might lead to you coming up with something in the moment that kind of just is from a more maybe subconscious level. think that sometimes when we take the time to script things, we’re really concerned with how something might come across or how we’re portraying ourselves. And so I think sometimes we get the more kind of raw, honest answers that everyone I think craves because

who doesn’t crave like authenticity and that genuineness these days because I think it can be difficult online to really feel like who you’re seeing is the real representation of that person. So I don’t think there’s any trouble with that at all. We’re all a little bit different. Some people like to, they need to know the plan coming in and they need to feel like they’ve got an idea of what’s coming at them to prevent them from being like anxious or, you know, getting worried about it. Other people, they’re just like, hey, show up, I’m here, I’ll talk, you know, I’m an open book. So with that said,

I feel like when I have these conversations with people, it’s always interesting for me to take it way back and to take it back to the time where maybe this wasn’t a part of their life and to really understand maybe why they got interested in working out or paying attention to what they’re putting in their bodies. And so I’d love to kind of hear a little bit more about you and maybe kind of taking it back to childhood or early adolescence or maybe even through your teenage years.

into being a young adult and exercise movement. What was that like for you? Did you play sports growing up? Was that something that was on your radar? Did you start lifting weights because of that or was it really just something you kind of fell into due to body image? mean, there’s so many different reasons and whys behind why people get interested in physical activity and movement and get into lifting weights. So what was that like growing up for you?

family athletic and sporty and so that was something that you fell into or was that kind of, you know, something that you were exploring for yourself.

Giacomo (05:58)
I’m not sure where to begin with this, because I’m having all sorts of thoughts. So I’m trying to jog my memory and think about what kind of story to tell here. But if I think of pre-pubescent early childhood, I think of all the different experiences that I had as a kid and all that I wanted to do. And as much as I enjoyed the idea of being active in sports, I wasn’t very good at it. Like you take, for example, in first grade, I was the very last kid to get picked for dodgeball. Why? Well, because I was shy.

I wasn’t confrontational. I wasn’t willing to be aggressive. And the other kids picked up on that. knew it. That being said, on the other side of this story was a father who was trying to encourage me to be athletic because he wanted me to get into sports. He was into baseball. And so he put me on a little league team and I tried and I had the support, the social support and the familial support. So it felt comfortable. Like I had cousins playing with me on the field.

had my dad as a coach, I had friends. but it was still wasn’t, it didn’t certainly feel right for me. And the second it started to get more competitive, I was like, I’m out, I’m done. I don’t want to get hit with it square in the middle of my face again with the ball. I am not comfortable adapting to wearing a jock strap and, and having my eyes corrected with like big pla, I mean, I was just, just totally shy and afraid to be made fun of, not confident, all that. like I felt, I loved the idea of sports, but I didn’t.

pursue it in childhood. So that being said, I didn’t give up on the idea either. So I was more into studying and mentoring others by being a tutor and whatever, just enjoying reading and math and all that stuff. School, not hobbies, not extracurriculars, or just like gaming, video games and computers and stuff. Eventually I…

got back into sports and it started by just like not being in a team oriented environment, but literally taking a ball and just hitting it against the side of the wall or taking a ball and throwing it in a net and trying to catch it afterwards, stuff like that. Just like doing it on my own, but not really, not really getting into sports. So that was what kept me going and kept me moving, kept me out of the house, kept me active. And then eventually I got a tennis racket by chance. It was just like,

It was a yard sale, right? And we got a whole bunch of stuff. And one of the things that we got was a tennis racket. was like, Ooh, this is cool. So what are we going to do with this? So I started hitting instead of using my, my hand to throw the ball or try to like roof the ball on the top of the, uh, house that we, was living at, started hitting it with the tennis racket. was like, Oh, this is cool. So then eventually a friend of mine across the street was like, Hey, like I like, I have a tennis racket too. I was like, cool. So why don’t we use the.

the sewer cap and we use that as a net. We just like made it up. We just made up our own game. And then eventually I got to a park and I started, I realized there was like a, how do I say, there was an organized tennis league there. So I started playing with them a little bit, but again, still the fear of doing things with others, still shy, still worried about all of that. So instead I w I played a park sport and I played handball, right? There was a handball court and a basketball court in Brooklyn. And I started playing handball.

And I discovered that I was actually really, really good at it. Like I, so that, was what got me into sports. Like that moment in time from that moment in time, from that point on, that was when I started to dedicate a lot of my time and energy in sports. mean like a lot of my time and energy in sports.

Ben (09:19)
What do you feel like you got out of participating in those sports because you mentioned that team sports was maybe not the thing that you gravitated towards the most compared to kind of that individual pursuit of practice and bettering yourself at a skill think video games are kind of similar in a way almost where it’s like you’re kind of towards some sort of goal and you’re trying to get better at the thing that you’re doing and it’s kind of this, you know, task of leveling up and continuing to kind of craft.

and hone your skills. And I’m starting to see the parallels here to like future, you know, going on in life and, you know, the pursuit of let’s you know, bodybuilding, let’s say, and really continuing to refine that craft. And, you know, it’s a lifelong pursuit. So I can see some of the parallels and why you might’ve gravitated more towards the individual sport aspect of things. there…

something that you could remember really liking about that kind of individual sport aspect or the pursuit of like working on those skills, what kept you kind of coming back?

Giacomo (10:15)
I was good at it, that I enjoyed it, that they’re the only person on the field I needed to be accountable to as myself. And there was an opportunity to, I didn’t have to impress anybody. I just had to continue to do what I was doing, try to get better at it and compete against others. And I loved ten tennis competition. I actually loved it. I actually miss it dearly. Bodybuilding took that away from me, but that’s another story for different day.

Ben (10:39)
Yeah, and I mean, you talking about not being accountable to other people, I mean, you fast forward now and you’re a business owner and you’re an entrepreneur and so you can see how these things kind of like start early on and maybe carry on throughout our lives. So I get the sense that you are quite competitive. How did that then lead into you getting into the weight room? So you mentioned playing tennis and ⁓ getting into the competitive side of that.

Was lifting weights something that came about as wanting to be better at that sport or better at tennis or was it kind of completely separate in its own right?

Giacomo (11:14)
100 % connected. fast forward to high school, I was already a target in elementary school and junior high school. And then going into the ninth grade, my music teacher realized, me, this, he obviously could use some support because he’s constantly hiding from other children who are bullying him and picking on him. And he doesn’t have that kind of social support. He’s a loner. He’s in the corner writing poetry. He’s

running away, hiding from other students. He’s hoping he doesn’t get beat up, blah, blah, blah. So like, let’s, let me take him under my wing. And I was fortunate enough to be one of three music students that he took under his wing when we had just had a gym open up. Cause we, was fortunate enough to be in a very privileged position in high school. I was in a private school. And so when we had our very own gym and I, music teacher saw that potential in me to get me out of my shell, he took me under his wing and he was a champion bodybuilder himself.

So that was his love. And my goal was not to bodybuild. My goal was like, well, if I could lift weights, then maybe I can make the tennis team and I can apply for JV and maybe I’ll get accepted if I’m more athletic. And so that was my motivation. But of course, like anything else, you’re inspired, influenced by others. You see other potential in what you’re doing. And eventually I wound up becoming a gym rat too. And there was, there’s a lot of tying in there too.

all kinds of things, but that was the initial spark that led me to get into the gym and be interested in lifting.

Ben (12:35)
And you mentioned, okay, that pursuit of lifting for the sport of, for the sake of sport, then eventually transitioned into you really loving the gym and becoming a gym rat, like you said. So was there a time period where you had really fallen in love with the gym and you were, you know, a gym rat, so to speak, and you were continuing to play tennis or was it kind of like this, this transition from one to another and how did that actually end up resulting in you getting into bodybuilding and wanting to compete in bodybuilding?

Giacomo (13:01)
Right. Because high school is all about just being more athletic. And I definitely got into the vanity side of things. I realized that I could control the way my body looks and I could become more muscular. And that would make me more confident, hopefully more likeable, more approachable. Date, would help me with dating and all of that. College is where the bodybuilding started to take place.

because that was when I started to become more of a gym rat because now it was about other things. wasn’t just about tennis. It wasn’t just about socializing. It was also about the fact that the gym had its own, it was its own separate space in college. So I got into there and I got really into lifting and figuring out how much I could lift, blah, blah, blah. And when I graduated, I decided because I had the luxury of choosing my path,

I was living at home and I had some freedom there. I chose to work at a gym as a personal trainer and the one particular gym that I worked at as a personal trainer got that got me into, well, no, that didn’t get me into bodybuilding. It was, it was a chance. It was a chance encounter at it. was on a, I was at a train station and there was a magazine. They have like the the magazines at the newsstands displayed on the subway system. And then boom, there was one magazine that said natural bodybuilding. And as a kid.

Back then, the bodybuilding culture was just fed to you by all those muscular development and flex magazines and all that stuff that that that whole side sends out to kids to try to like get them into it. So I was looking at all those looking at all these these big lifters and I was like, I can never do that. Like that’s I mean, don’t get me wrong. It inspired me, but it just didn’t seem feasible. Then I was like, wait a minute. There’s there’s a natural side of this because we because I was part of the whole like shaming steroids era.

back in high school was like, I don’t want to do that. Like I, that worked to me kind of like how we shamed cigarettes back in the day and now people vape, like mostly the tobacco usage is a lot less. So it worked for some, the steroid shaming worked for me. was like, Nope, I’m not going to do that. But when I saw the natural bodybuilding magazine, I realized that was the way I was like, I’m hooked. Let’s do this. And I just be lined it right for that goal. And I

I was like, okay, well, I’m used to giving to others and I’m used to helping others and I’m used to training others. And I’ve always loved being that person in the gym to like lend a hand, give a spot, whatever, look at someone’s form, take feedback from them, nerd out in the gym. But to be able to actually do something for myself and be an example, that was a totally different opportunity. And I just jumped right on that. And that’s how I got into bodybuilding.

Ben (15:24)
That’s an amazing context just for people to really understand the progression and how somebody goes from just a curiosity of, being in the gym and, you know, seeing what you can do. And maybe it starts as, as one sort of motivator and you find these different motivators along the way. I think going to the gym and lifting weights and working out, it’s, it’s a vessel, I think, for, for personal growth and learning about yourself because you face challenges, you face puzzles that you have to solve.

through those things, have frustrations, have wins, you have highs, you have lows, and you, think you just continue to, to learn more about yourself. I think there was, I’m trying to remember, his name and I know his initials are like and he, he’s a, ⁓ like a famous Japanese scholar and he was a samurai and he said, from one thing, know 10,000. And it was like this idea of like,

the pursuit of mastery in one realm, whether that is the gym or maybe there’s something else that you’re passionate about and you really pour all your time and energy and effort into this kind of one pursuit or maybe it’s a theme that you kind of choose to explore in your life. And just the pursuit of that one thing and that mastery of that one thing, you learn a thousand other things that you can apply to other aspects of your life, those lessons that you learn there. And I think that that’s a great example of that. I think that’s why a lot of people end up falling in love with bodybuilding is because they learn so much about themselves.

and they, maybe they find passions that they weren’t aware of. ⁓ so can you kind of think of any lessons or any big, I guess, takeaways that, that bodybuilding has, given to you over the years and, know, why, why do you continue to bodybuild? Why do you continue to, to do it to this day? Because, you know, it’s, know, you’ve been doing it for so long. And so people, a lot of people would probably be like, wow, you know, especially as, as you get older, I think people, sometimes end up.

maybe just letting go of some of these habits and not being as interested in their health or their fitness, or they get caught up with life responsibilities and kind of slide. So what keeps you coming back? What’s the reason why you continue to bodybuild and still love it and enjoy it even to this day?

Giacomo (17:16)
I give you the truth. You ready for it?

So 25 years ago someone awarded me a first place trophy in bodybuilding and I’ve been chasing that dream ever since and I haven’t placed first in bodybuilding since that day. I placed first in physique but I didn’t place first in bodybuilding and that was my first love and I am extremely competitive like to a fault like I

don’t know how to not be competitive.

So that is what keeps that probably what that’s my hook, if you will, Ben. But in addition to that, I also like being the best at something.

I don’t need to be the best and the champion, but I need to be the best version of myself. I needed to be the best at something that I can be. I’m willing to accept a career in something where I know that there are all kinds of reasons why I won’t be number one, maybe not ever, but I’m willing to go that path. If I can do one thing really, really well to the best of my capabilities. And I know.

that in order for that to happen, you have to play the long game. If you want to be an expert something, you have to keep going. There’s no two ways about it. And in this world of distractions and too much information and all kinds of things that are fingertips, literally at our fingertips, our, in front of like the blink of an eye, you can do whatever you want. I, I enjoy having something to focus on that I can just continue to get better at because it’s what I put my energy into and what I prioritize.

Ben (18:39)
And I think that’s again, one of the reasons why people stick with it for so long is they the the pursuit of self-improvement and Being able to feel like you’re progressing in something I feel like that is a very it’s not this like surface level Feeling of happiness and contentment that you might get from just like some of the day-to-day things that we do but it’s this this deeper level of satisfaction and fulfillment and purpose that we get from Continuing to see what we can do. I think as human beings and you know push our push ourselves

I think that’s, know, stagnation for me is something that feels at this point kind of uncomfortable. I don’t like the feeling of it, of feeling like I’m, we might be routine and we might do similar things, but we’re always trying to get a little bit better at that. Whether that be our coaching or our bodybuilding or, you know, eating more nutritiously, getting better sleep. And I certainly think we can take it too far where we’re, you know, constantly trying to like improve, improve, improve. And I think

we’ve probably both been there where it’s like you can take it too far and it becomes obsessive and it kind of takes over your life. So I think just trying to have ⁓ this balance of, you know, compassion for yourself while trying to continue improving I think is important, but it’s what keeps a lot of us coming back is this feeling of progress, this feeling of, okay, I’m moving forward. And I guess I’d like to kind of bookend this part of your journey by just.

talking about what’s next for you. What are your current goals? Like what are you working on? As bodybuilders, it’s pretty unusual to compete every single year. Usually we take a couple years off. If I’m recalling correctly, I believe your last season was 2022. Is that right? And so I’d love to know when your next competition is maybe planned for, if you have that in mind, maybe how kind of your off season’s gone since your last show and what’s currently exciting for you.

Giacomo (20:23)
Well, I am a planner. So after 2022, I immediately set my sights on plus or minus a year the next time I was going to compete. But now that I’m here and the goal of wanting to compete next year is something I’ve thought about for the past years, I don’t know if I will. And I have two reasons for that, Ben. One.

I don’t know if the things that I’m doing outside of my prep are going to give me the runway that I need for the prep that I want to have in the season that I want to have. And I think I may still have to work on my habits and my routine outside of prep and outside of my season. So that’s one thing. The other thing is that I have to decide if I want the glory at the risk of being less competitive or, and I’m willing to take that risk.

Or if I want to try to do this as a lone wolf and just do it on my own, let me give the context there. So next year we should be competing as a team. As in the plant built vegan strong team should be competing. Now my responsibilities for the team are major and historically again, the glory is very rewarding. like the reason why I’m doing it for the activism and I get to make a difference as an athlete, as a competitor.

I get to be a part of something, but I feel like it can come at the expense of my ability to be more competitive. So part of me feels like that’s an excuse and not a reason. The other part of me wonders what it would be like to just, like I said, lone wolf it and see what I could accomplish on my own. And maybe I’ll be more competitive that way. So I have this history of pushing too hard when it comes time to see my prep through.

and to have my season. And I know that that pattern doesn’t serve me well. And I’m changing that pattern right now in my improvement season when I’m not competing and when I’m on, when I’m not prepping to compete.

I also have to change that pattern when it comes time to prep and to compete, meaning sleep more train, train hard, but a little less because you can only recover for so much training manager stress better. Instead. I do the opposite. go full throttle and I take on more personally, professionally and everything in between. It’s like, well, you know what? I’m pushing hard anyway. I might as well use this as a positive and do other things, but it’s not, it’s not how you’re going to be more competitive. So I’m

I don’t quite know if I’m there yet, essentially. So I can’t tell you for sure, Ben, if it will be next year or the following, but it’s, it’s common because it’s been a while and I’m right around, I’ll be right around the 15 year mark of 15 years training straight specificity wise for bodybuilding and right around that time you get, you get to put a pretty good look out there. If you’ve been training intelligently and doing everything intelligently.

Ben (22:50)
I think that’s a really mature answer because I think sometimes there’s what we want to do. And then there’s like, what is the wise decision and what is actually going to get us to where we want to be. I mean, what we want to do might be to compete more often because it’s, fun to compete. It’s good for business. you know, you get to see yourself lean, you get lots of people, you know, giving you compliments on your physique and that sort of thing.

you want to see maybe the improvements that you’ve made, but at the same time, like you said, if there are things that still need to be worked on, a prep will just kind of like bring to the surface everything that is a challenge and a struggle for you because it’s a very high stress and high stakes and high pressure environment, especially for someone like yourself and myself. I definitely felt a lot of pressure on myself during my last prep and that made me like you at the end, get a little bit anxious and push myself really hard because I wanted to.

present a certain way, ⁓ it’s almost like you’re what you want to do during a prep is almost the opposite of what you should do. So you almost get into this like hyper productivity mode where like you need to be doing stuff all the time. You’re on, kind of, you know, you, you almost embrace kind of the struggle and the grind of it to a point that becomes detrimental because you kind of convince yourself that you’re, you know, you’re Superman and you can do all these things and you feel like it’s some days, but then you also have these

these days where you feel kind of low and you feel kind of alone. And so I think, uh, really making sure that your life context is supportive for a prep is really important. Uh, like you said, and it can be hard to say, you know what, I have some things I want to work on, or you know what my life right now, um, and when I, know, my responsibilities are not conducive to a prep. Uh, it’s, it’s a difficult thing, but I think it’s something that then makes that experience worth it because the thing that’s, think maybe

harder than what you’re talking about right now is going into that prep environment and then having it not turn out the way that you’d like and not be successful because you didn’t allow yourself the time to maybe get into an environment, a context that is more supportive for that prep. So I’ll be excited when the day comes. course, there’s a saying in bodybuilding, this stage will always be there. There’s no rush. It’s a you versus you always.

I think you have to pick the time that feels best and works best. And of course there’s other people affected and involved too, right? There’s partners, there’s friendships, there’s other relationships and those can all be affected as well. So I think it has to be kind of a joint decision at the end of the day. So I’ll be excited when eventually that does come, but there’s no rush and whenever you get there is whenever you get there.

I think that it would make sense now to move on to talking about coaching a little bit and what made you want to get into coaching. So you mentioned when you were talking about getting into bodybuilding, you’ve always, you know, you’re someone who wants to lend a hand to people, whether that be inside the gym or outside. And you mentioned kind of mentoring back when you were a teenager and tutoring people and that sort of thing. So it feels like you’ve always kind of had that

be an interest of yours in some respect. And so I’d love to know what made you want to translate this passion of bodybuilding and lifting weights and working out. And we’ll eventually kind of get to talking about, you know, veganism and nutrition and how that kind of ties in because these things all kind of happen simultaneously. And so it’s hard to really isolate one thing without talking about other things. But at what point did you decide, you know what, this might be something that I want to actually make into a career is.

you know, training people and working with people and helping them do something that you’ve done for yourself or that you love doing for yourself. What really kind of led to that?

Giacomo (26:25)
Dani, she inspired me. I was busy trying to build a team and foster that team and create a dynasty with the Vegan Strong Plant Built team. Like, what was it? Like 10, 15 years ago. And while I was doing that and she was…

right by my side, she was also directly involved, but her focus was on helping the individuals on the team and helping them become more competitive. And a couple of people asked for her help. And so when she saw myself and Robert Cheeke and several of the bodybuilders just like doing things so haphazardly, she’s like, no, this is not the way. Like y’all are not doing this sport any justice and you’re, you, there’s gotta be a way to do this better.

So that was what her initial interest was in finding out how to program, plan, coach, support other athletes, if you will. But that happened way before we did PlantBuilt That was like, that was closer to like 2009, 2010 and like closer to like 2012, 2013. That was when we had a team and then she decided to take that care that she wanted to offer. with that knowledge,

She combined that into what she started to do with some of the athletes. So she worked with Sarah Russert and then she eventually partnered up with Tiffany Burich. Those are some of our original athletes on the team. And then they all, that three of them wanted to becoming coaches together, which is pretty cool. And they ran some group workshops and this and that, but Dani kept going and she decided, well, we’re not going to sell supplements anymore. And this is a labor of love here with PlantBuilt. This is not going to.

give, we weren’t doing it for money. was all nonprofit. were just losing money, over fist, but we were investing in something we loved. So she was like, why don’t we decide, why don’t we try to focus on coaching instead? And that’s what she did. I mean, there were no vegan coaches back then online. I remember the conversation with Derek Tresize. We were having it sitting in his car and he was like, are you going to be the one to do it? I was like, I don’t know. Are you going to be the one to do it? And he’s like, I don’t know. And he, he stopped. He focused more on his studio.

And we focused more with online coaching and I’m like, all right, well, let’s, let’s do this instead. And kind of got the okay from him. Like, you know, we’re not stepping on each other’s toes. We got to grow this thing and get some vegan coaching going online. Cause no one else is doing it. And there’s evidence based coaching out there, but not, there are no vegan coaches. So when she started doing it, eventually I came in as her apprentice and I, cause the coaching is completely different to programming.

And then over time, after being her apprentice for like a year or two, then eventually I started coaching on my own and then taking on clients.

Ben (29:01)
Yeah, it’s interesting to really see how these steps lead us to the next thing. So it’s like, okay, you make the decision to get into lifting. You also at a certain point decide to go vegan, which we’ll get to in a second. You meet Dani and all these other folks on the vegan bodybuilding forums. You meet up in person. You start the vegan proteins, the supplement protein company where you’re selling the protein powder.

then you meet more people who are like-minded, you start the plant-built team, you’re trying to have success, and it’s of just this natural evolution, right? It wasn’t like you started out by saying, you know what I wanna do to make a bunch of money? I wanna coach people, which actually is, unfortunately, it’s a lot of people these days. People who end up being influencers and then selling coaching, they just kind of genetically probably have a good response to training, or they take steroids or something like that, and then…

they use their, their, their body and their physique to just sell coaching, but it’s a very, you know, cookie cutter approach. And unfortunately that’s a lot of people who ended up coming to work with us as people who have, ⁓ maybe worked with some of these coaches and they didn’t get the experience that they were hoping for because these people are in coaching for the money and they’re not in it because, they love it or it’s something that they’ve seen value from. Like you saw the value because Dani actually helped coach you and then you understood, wow. Like understanding the methods and the science and.

you know, all the different tools that we have to at our disposal in order to get the best results. This is something that I can help people, other people with, like they can get the same value that I got out of it. And it really comes from a place of understanding and a place of empathy because you’ve kind of gone through that journey yourself. So, you know, once you started learning from Dani and you started understanding these things and teaching them to other people, what, you know, what was, you know, what do you feel like?

coaching has taught you maybe about others or about yourself? Like what, what have you, what do you feel that you have gotten out of the experience of, of being a coach and coaching others?

Giacomo (30:53)
People need people. It’s as simple as that. You get to not be in your own way. You get out of your head and you get an outside the box, out of your head approach to what you’re doing, which helps you be more objective. And a program is not going to do that for you.

Getting out your head by journaling is not going to do that for you. Having a person who’s going to help you see your blocks, your blind spots, that’s what’s going to do it for you. There’s a reason why the best athletes in the world have coaches.

because you have someone that’s in it with you that’s involved, that’s you to succeed. And it’s not, it’s not just the accountability and the motivation. That’s in my opinion, that’s a low hanging fruit, even though it’s major. It is someone who is guiding you while you call the shots and supporting you and reminding you of what you want to do so that you don’t wind up making decisions that you will look back on potentially with regret because

Again, they know you. don’t know how to put into words. don’t know how to articulate what I’m trying to say, Ben, it’s, there’s some, so part of me asks the question often, like, okay, so is having a coach a necessary thing? Is having the coach something that makes you dependent on another person? And maybe you don’t need it.

Are you just doing that because you need some social support? You really know how to do it all on your own, right? But having a coach for, I’m not that person. I mean, yes, I’m extroverted and yes, I love people and yes, I love the idea of having someone who’s in it with me, but that’s not why I’ve had a coach for seven years straight. have somebody that knows me better than I know myself in many ways.

as far as the work that we’re doing, you know, he’s my fitness coach and, and he makes sure that I make, he keeps me on the street and narrow while also supporting me as a person. I don’t, I don’t feel like there’s any substitute for that. You’re not going to find that in a program programming for yourself. You’re not going to find that with AI. You’re not going to find that by knowing your experiences over the years.

you’re going to find that with another person who you have a chance to be vulnerable to, who you have a chance to, you let them in. And with us, it’s all autonomous, right? And over time you trust that you can become more coachable because you know that your coaches are going to strong arm you and tell you what to do. They’re going to guide you and support you based on what you’re telling them you want to do and what your needs are.

Ben (33:12)
I feel like a coach is…

powerful reflector of the things that we tend to express. They pick up on the things that maybe we aren’t even picking up on in the way that we talk, the way that we express our feelings and our emotions and they make note of those things. They understand our pain points and our weaknesses and they understand our strengths as well and they play into those and they help us to grow and improve. think they take away some of the biases that we might have in our thought processes and they help us to get the most out of ourselves.

and to help us feel supported. And I think that that’s something that we all need. Like you said, it’s the human connection. And I think that that’s one reason, like you said, why coaching more may and something that’s valuable because yes, you can get a machine to tell you the information. The information is not the only piece of the puzzle. In fact, it’s a small piece, I would argue. It’s part of it. And I think it’s also worth mentioning that, you know, even if you’re using some of these tools out there that exist today,

the information, like if I were to ask a question and have an answer in my mind, the answer that it would give me perhaps would miss some of the very key variables or important pieces of knowledge. So you don’t even know necessarily that you’re getting the information that you need to be getting. But I think it really is about having somebody that you can problem solve with, that you can troubleshoot with. You know, when I did my kind of behavior change coaching certification, that was something that was really stressed to us was that

you know, when you’re working with somebody, you should acknowledge that they are an expert in themselves and your job is to kind of pull the information out of them and then give the input or your expert advice or knowledge in a specific field when it is warranted. But really what you’re trying to do as much as you can is really extract that knowledge out of them and get them to be an active participant in this conversation and in this process because when somebody is an active participant, they feel more invested. Whether that’s, you know,

you kind of facilitating a thought process. Like let’s say they come to you with something they’ve been struggling with and you you, you, you might, your inclination might be to right away give them some answers that, you know, that, that you perceive. But I think sometimes, you know, I found as a coach that asking them, you know, what do you think, what do you think could be some kind of solutions, that we could kind of go down and they might say, you know, ⁓ these are a couple of things that I could think of. And I could say, I really like this.

You know, that, that might work in a different scenario. Here’s another suggestion that I could come off with the top of my head. What do you think about that? And it’s, you know, it’s an active kind of conversation. And I think that that’s, how we grow as coaches, but also, how the people that we work with grow as well is integrating some of their own decisions and thoughts into the process and a, being the kind of this joint container, for exploration and people feeling like they have, you know, a safe space to also express, you know, the,

emotions that come up throughout that process and the triggers and all the challenges because when you are really devoting a lot of time and energy into something, there will be setbacks and you’ll learn things from those setbacks. And I think that’s why I continue to come back to working with people. It’s just because I really value that connection and value being able to feel like I have made an impact in someone’s life. And they’ve made an impact in ours. Every single person we work with,

in some way impacts us and whether that be our coaching style or the way that we think about going throughout the world, I find that I learned something with every client that I work with. Follow up to that. What are some things that you’ve maybe changed your mind on since you started coaching? When I was talking with Sawyer, we were talking about the fact that what I was just talking about was I think sometimes people think coaching is just like somebody telling you what to do and that’s…

maybe a piece of it, but I think it’s a lot more about like the, the psychological barriers that come up and the mental challenges and the mental struggles. ⁓ but I’d like just to know if there’s anything like, whether that be a preconceived notion that you had about working with people or, you know, whether it be. Whatever’s come into mind, like, is there anything that you remember doing maybe at the start of coaching or thinking? And now you’re like, man, when I look back on that, I really wish that I had.

done this differently and that I had, ⁓ you know, known what I know now.

Giacomo (37:17)
The first thing I’m thinking is how much time do we have?

I don’t even know where to begin. don’t know how to sum this up, but everything, everything, absolutely everything from they, they want the programming, give them the programming and focus on that. They want the accountability, give them the accountability, focus on that. They want to focus on their goal. They don’t want to think about different scenarios, focus on their goal, hold the line on that and just tell them how to reach their goal. They, they want to, they want to be

left alone if you don’t hear from them. It’s up to them to respond. It’s up to them to come to you. These are all the things, by the way, in case this isn’t obvious to the listener. These are the things that I look back with with regret.

and realizing those are the surfacey things that have nothing to do with coaching. Those are the things that when someone comes in to a call and they’re like, Hey, I’m thinking about working with you. And you’re been talking to them for like 25 minutes and all of a sudden they’re like, so what’s the program? I’m like, Oh, you don’t have any idea what you’re going to get here and what kind of benefits you’re going to get when working with someone yet. Do you, I hope that you, I hope that there’s some buy-in for you here because you are going to

able to get so much out of working with the person. But the only way to know is to do it. So it’s about playing out, like you said, playing out the scenarios and getting someone to invest in the process of thinking through things. It’s questioning everything. It’s supporting someone when they’re not ready to have the conversation. You don’t force it on them, but you facilitate

as you say, safe space for them to have a conversation with you. Even when not ready. The avoiding is, I would say the number one thing. so someone wants to be accountable, but they also want to accomplish the thing that they want accountability for. And when they can’t, which happens 90, a hundred percent of the time, well more than 50 % of the time, they’re going to avoid the conversation with you. Cause they’re avoiding the conversation with themselves.

where they can have the conversation with themselves and compartmentalize and repress. like, it comes time to actually make it real with the person they’re accountable to, they, they’re not ready for it. Or if they’re saying it, it’s, too painful to, have that conversation, but a good coach will not pull that conversation out of you. good, a good coach will support you and prove to you again and again, that every single time you’re ready to have the conversation, that, ⁓ it’s the right time to have it.

And they’re going to say what they need, what they need to say. And I think it’s also your responsibility to check up on your clients, but to not poke at them being like, Hey, I’ve done that in the past. I’m like, Hey, I need to hear from you kind of like, didn’t mean to come across like that, but it was more a matter of like, where are you? Like, but you don’t reach people like that. You can, there’s a, the idea is to find a way to reach out to someone when they’re avoiding what they need to do or.

or they’re not making time for themselves and find a way for them to respond in kind where they’re reminded where they remind themselves, Hey, I do need to show up for myself. I do need to make this a priority. I do need to have this conversation that I’ve been avoiding and a good coach will know how to get that out of their client every single time. Cause without that, you’re going to, you’re going to lose your client.

Ben (40:26)
And that’s something that you learn as well with time is just kind of getting a sense for somebody’s personality and being like, I’ve seen this before in like this person and maybe this thing will work and you try it and maybe it works and maybe it doesn’t. And so you go through your next kind of set of tools and you say, maybe this approach will work or maybe this will work. And sometimes you have to think outside of the box and try something you haven’t tried before. Talk to other coaches, you know, on our team. And we do that sometimes on our coaching calls and say, you know what, what do you, you know, what do you guys think could kind of work here? And.

I think that’s again, it’s like the individual aspect of coaching is understanding every single person you’re working with is unique and you can try skills and strategies that have worked with with other people before. Maybe it’ll work. Maybe it won’t. And that’s, that’s part of the process. ⁓ if you could give one piece of advice to someone who’s just starting on their health and fitness path or journey, what would it be?

Giacomo (41:14)
If I could give one piece of advice to someone who’s starting on their health and fitness journey, what would be?

Ben (41:20)
Yes.

Giacomo (41:20)
I want to say something cliche, like stick with it, it’s worth it. I… Okay, so here’s a thought that hasn’t come to me in a long time, and something we used to say for a while to people.

It’s not as intimidating of an environment as you might think. And yeah, there are bad apples and bad seeds everywhere you turn, everywhere in life. But for the most part, the fitness community is incredibly supportive. The vegan community is incredibly supportive. We started using this in the vegan community, like seek out community, seek out support, become a part of something, even if it’s uncomfortable.

And then eventually it’s what you, it’s where you want to be. And it’s what you want to do. It’s kind of like that whole, well, I don’t need a coach until I have exhausted all of my own options, or I’m not going to go to the gym until I’ve lost 20 pounds and I’m worthy of exercising on gym equipment. Or, and, and maybe then I won’t feel shame and I’ll feel like I deserve this. It’s like that then don’t worry about.

Those worries are completely valid. We all feel them. When you put yourself in uncomfortable environments and scenarios and positions again and again, because it’s what you really want to do, you’d be surprised how many walls come down. You’d be surprised how supportive people are. I have been pretty much…

the gym rat that doesn’t communicate or socialize with anybody for the latter portion of two, three years. It’s mostly because I have these in my ear and my phone in my hands. But these days I don’t have it at a phone, a phone in my hand or these things, my ears for like six months. And I still find myself not even like cracking a smile at anybody, not wanting to disturb anybody else, being afraid that someone else is going to jump into my bubble and distract me or waste my time or whatever. You even just, I don’t know, it is.

Is a lifter going to feel like I’m coming onto them if I’m near them like one, like a female if there’s somewhere like, I don’t want to bother people. These are people that I don’t know. But lately those walls are coming down because I’m making, I’m not trying to do anything differently, but I have less fear around that stuff. I’m like, you know what? That’s silly. That’s absolutely like, no, uh, this, this, the gym is a welcoming place. And the more you realize that and

eventually it becomes the welcoming place that you hope it can be. And I would say that about the health and fitness world in general. It can look very scary. I get it. But if you continue to smile, smile back, not be afraid to say something and put yourself in that environment, eventually it will feel like home. That’s the hope.

Ben (43:45)
Community is something that I talked about with Sawyer when he interviewed me for my episode. He asked, what do you feel like would be a good piece of advice to give somebody who’s just gone vegan? And I said a similar answer. And I think it’s because when you find a community, the reason that people are a member of that community is because they’ve gotten something positive from, from whatever shared interest or theme is a, is a part of that community. So if it’s health and fitness in this instance,

These are a lot of people who have gone on these personal journeys of transformation and they’ve seen a benefit from it and they want to talk to other people. They want to feel some sort of connection over that. They want to bounce ideas off of each other and maybe it’s getting a workout in together, going for a run together, like whatever these things are that people choose to bond over in these communities. so I think that having that social support, I mean, if you just look at self-determination theory, which is this idea of autonomy,

competence and relatedness, it’s these three pillars that kind of form this theory of self-efficacy and that relatedness, feeling like you have the social support to be able to succeed in your goals and the resources and the access to those resources, that’s so important and that’s so huge. And so I think this is a good transition into talking about you deciding to go vegan. What was that decision-making process like? How did that happen?

And obviously you ended up finding a community through, you know, the, the vegan bodybuilding online forums. And that’s how you met Dani and all these wonderful people and kind of started this, this cascade of events. I feel like I had, you know, remember you talking about kind of getting interested in like the sort of like the natural hygiene movement and that kind of transitioning maybe into that a little bit into, veganism. And, ⁓ so I’d love to just, just hear about.

how that kind of progressed for you? Did it start out, I mean, I know for me, it kind of started out as a general interest in health, and then I kind of was like, discovered a plant-based diet, and then I didn’t actually really go kind of fully into that until I discovered the ethical side of things. And then that, you know, all of these pieces kind of came together and clicked for me, and then I decided, oh, this is something I definitely want to do. So what did that look like for you?

Giacomo (45:51)
I discovered that I can control my body. And when I discovered that I could control my body, I felt like I could control my health too. It gave me the confidence in myself to believe that I could control my health. And my motivation was a mother-like figure in my life. I was dating someone very seriously and her mother had a heart attack.

And I wanted to help her. So I immediately ran to the store that helped me control my body, where I picked up my supplements and my grains and my fresh produce and whatever. And I was like, help me, please help me. So just kind, grocery clerk or whatever went to the library of books and gave me a book. was like, read this. So I read it and it promoted vegetarianism, promoted veganism. But if you were going to not be

vegan if you aren’t gonna have a hundred percent plant-based diet like be mindful of your choices limit dairy consumption keep your it’s better for your cholesterol and Have meat be a condiment kind of like if you order Like an Asian dish you see like like a fried rice dish like there’s little bits of meat like classic Whatever Chinese Cantonese dish stuff like that. I was like that just clicked that just clicked in my head and then eventually I

met some, I started to seek out social support. went to potlucks and I met people and then I had dated someone else at the time and she was already pretty much on a plant-based diet, but she also connected me to what was on my plate and I was like, my gosh, you mean like animals had to die for what was on my plate? I never made the connection. was what 24 years old, something like that.

And that was an aha light bulb moment and meeting other people. I was like, okay, so it’s bad for the environment too. If you are exploiting animals, destroying the rainforests for the purpose of livestock production, like that’s terrible. So I had all this, all these reasons to stick with it. And then my father got cancer and he decided that it was a death sentence. So he was going to live his life.

And I decided that that was not the solution, but I couldn’t change him. And I wrestled with that for a very long time. But what I realized is that I could be an example. could be the example. And eventually over time, I found healthy ways to focus on fitness and nutrition. And I made it into everything it is today. It’s a lifestyle for me.

Yeah, one thing, one thing you mentioned the whole bulletin board thing. so I was on my space at the time and Robert had a top eight and he put me in it because he was gaming my space to like, build a bigger community. And I didn’t know that I was just some silly little whatever, like my space, usually being like, Ooh, I have a friend. This feels good. And he was like, ha ha, no, I’m just trying to game this system so I could have a bigger community. But I didn’t know that I was like,

So I went to his site as a revenge play and I was like, I’m going to post more than everyone on your site and everyone’s going to like me better than they like you. It worked. It worked. I mean, they still like him better than they like me, but that’s besides the point. I kid, I promise. But, um, but yeah, that’s how I gained community on veganbodybuilding.com. I found that it was less about proving that I was likable or

you know, worthy of whatever. we came more about community and we had a local meetup, uh, where he lived at the time in Oregon. And I met others, Dani and I met each other. And then the rest was history. We formed our vegan supplement shop team and coaching and went out and we still do today. What we’ve been doing for the past 18 years, going to vegfests, competing together as a team, working with others, uh, recommending nutritional supplements, but more importantly than that, like helping people with their.

their actual nutrition. All the things that we’ve done, we’ve started doing back then, we’re still doing today, just looks a little different.

Ben (49:21)
And speaking of helping people, I think that this is a great way to round out the podcast episode today. I feel like we got a pretty good picture of how you started out in the beginning, getting into fitness and exercise and discovering nutrition and how that all kind of culminated into the, know, the, person that you are today. And of course there’s all the, you know, the other stuff that we didn’t even talk about with, with you outside of, you know, your, your interest in, health and fitness and.

Of course, us as coaches, we all have our little hobbies and other things that we do, but this is a big part of our life. And I think it’s just good for people to maybe be able to relate to us a little bit more or just understand kind of where we’re coming from and why we care so much about what we do. So, you had mentioned kind of like just helping others along the way was a big part of that. So obviously that’s what we do now at Vegan Protein. So if you want to just round us out here and…

Let people know if they’re needing some help or needing some assistance on their journey, what they can do.

Giacomo (50:20)
Absolutely. You don’t have to go through it alone. We’re here. We have a wonderful community that’s just waiting to welcome you in. It would be an honor to welcome you to our team. We have coaches who care. We’ve been doing this for a very long time. And it would be an honor to help you and support you along the way in any way that we possibly can. Thanks so much for giving me the opportunity to tell my story. Ben, believe it or not, this is actually the first time I’m officially putting some sort of story here together.

where it’s not just an interview somewhere else for some particular reason. This is just what it is. So that’s pretty cool. good, good. Hopefully you’re finding this helpful if you’re listening. Thanks so much for tuning into another episode of Vegan Proteins Muscles by Brussels Radio. Please stay in touch with us at Vegan Proteins on YouTube and at Muscles by Brussels and all of the socials for all of our coaches you’ll find on those pages as well on Instagram, on Facebook. ⁓

Guess what? You don’t like social media. We have a muscles by Brussels private community off of social media, where just us, you know, have algorithms, you don’t have advertisements, you don’t have distractions. You don’t have to worry about what you came there to talk about. We’re here to nerd out and support one another and talk about vegan fitness and nutrition. And that’s all inside of our muscles by Brussels membership inside of our app. And we would absolutely love, love, love to have you in there. Anyways, once again, my name is Giacomo

Ben (51:42)
I’m Ben.

Giacomo (51:43)
and we’ll talk to you soon.

Ben (51:43)
Bye everyone.