Ep 249 – You’re Injured…Now What?

In this episode, Giacomo and Sawyer tackle a challenge nearly every lifter eventually faces: getting injured. They discuss the mental side of dealing with setbacks, how to adjust your training without completely losing momentum, and the importance of patience during recovery.

The conversation covers practical strategies like modifying exercises, managing training volume and intensity, and focusing on what you can still train. They also talk about long-term thinking in bodybuilding: why pushing through injuries can often do more harm than good, and how smart adjustments can keep you progressing while healing.

If you’ve ever wondered how to stay productive in the gym while recovering from an injury, this episode provides a realistic and thoughtful approach to navigating setbacks.

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TRANSCRIPT

Giacomo (00:00)
Welcome back to another episode of Vegan Proteins Muscles by Brussels Radio. My name is Giacomo.

Sawyer (00:05)
And I’m Sawyer.

Giacomo (00:06)
the show. So no one saw that right? I was screaming into the void and the camera didn’t catch it because we were getting ready but that’s how I start my podcast just in case you don’t know and too bad Mark and Michael aren’t here for those kinds of outtakes. I don’t know if anyone’s gonna see that but thank you so much for tuning in everyone you’re the reason why we do this. I hope you enjoy listening to this episode but I don’t like to go for the jugular and get right into things and I miss my miss my soy boy

Sawyer (00:21)
you

Mm-hmm.

Giacomo (00:33)
Sawyer dude guy over here because you just moved to Barcelona. So you must have something way more interesting than I have to share. I genuinely do miss you dude. Just the idea that you’re no longer here in the United States, although I’m very happy for you and there I see a little bit envious. I’m also, it’s also little sad to know that like on the job of a dime, I can’t come visit you or you can’t come visit me potentially.

Sawyer (00:39)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm

Well, it’s just a longer flight, you know, but yeah, I mean, you know, that’s how I see it anyway. It’s just like, okay, you know, before it was like a three, four hour flight. Now it’s like a, I don’t know, what is it from the East coast? I think it was like a seven, seven hour flight for me. So maybe, maybe around there. So not too bad, but at any rate, yeah, it’s been an adventure. mean, we’ve, it’s crazy to think we’ve been here like,

I think three weeks now. And it’s very different from taking a vacation because you’re still working, you’re going about your day like normal routines. So it’s a little bit weird in that way and I don’t feel integrated, but I’m also living here. But at the same time, I’m enjoying the prospect of like, okay, I’m checking out a new place kind of role playing in a different society. And do I like it? Could I see myself here long-term?

It’s just different than vacationing. And the other thing is it’s a challenge trying to find the vegan scene and the vegan products that I really like. Because as you already know, it took a while to find the things that check all the boxes. It’s affordable, it’s vegan, it’s macro-friendly. There’s all those things. And so we’ve been going different places and trying different things.

trying to meet more vegans, but it takes time. It takes time, but it’s been a really fun adventure so far.

Giacomo (02:15)
So for me, the first things I think about are water, vegetables, and gym. Everything else I can figure out. So for your self-assurance outside of obviously caring for finding a home base for Archer and focusing on you and Mia, what basic needs did you meet right away when you got there?

Sawyer (02:20)
you

Mm-hmm.

So yeah, the Archer stuff is the biggest. We had planned it so that he had a little patio thing, because he’s a very anxious dog, so we were like, okay, we know we’re not going to want to take him out into the city all the time. Although Mia has been taking him out more often at nighttime in the morning, which I really appreciate, because he gets very tired and stimulated and all that. But I typically like to take him out to the patio and throw the frisbee around and stuff like that. So that’s been huge, having that space.

has been really cool. And then from there it was just, I mean, I already had the gym membership, I need to tie a fitness membership, and that’s international, which is really cool. So my same key fob works, you know what I mean? And we kind of planned it so that I’m like a 10 minute walk from the gym, which is really cool. Even sometimes go to the farther one just to get more steps and check out the city some more. So that’s really cool.

And then yeah, then it’s just like trying out new places, new restaurants, new grocery stores, using the Meetup app a lot to like try to get into the vegan scene here and just meet people in general. So, you know, I think that’s, that pretty much summarizes it, you know, and trying to, we tried a new awesome vegan restaurant last night and it was really cool. So yeah, there’s, lots of stuff to see here. Like I’ll never.

explore it all. If I was here for 30 years, I’d never see everything. It’s crazy how much there is to check out here.

Giacomo (03:52)
It’s been absolutely crazy over here. It’s been back to back to back for like a month straight. So I, I lost my aunt. So I, I high tailed it. She passed on. know terrible. And it was unexpected. Thank you. So I be lined it to New York literally within a day or two came back the very next day. I planned out Danny’s 40th. And then the very next day was her 40th and we had maybe 30 guests over the house. And she was like, I want to plan, but I know, I know. Well, we’ll have to do it again.

Sawyer (03:57)
Hmm.

I’m sorry buddy, really?

Mm-hmm.

my gosh, I’m so sad I missed that.

Giacomo (04:20)
But my point

is she was like, we plan everything. I don’t want to plan something for my 40th. You do it. I was like, deal. So then right after all that, the very next week weekend, we went to Rhode Island VegFest. So two weekends in a row. And then the very next week, which is right now, the week that we’re in, we’re set in sail for the vegan cruise, another event.

Sawyer (04:32)
Mm-hmm.

Giacomo (04:41)
And then I come back and I was almost going to wind up being on some sort of taping for a media interview at a TV studio, but that taping didn’t pan out. So was kind of like, wow, things are really ramping up right now. know it’s one of those times where I mean, I’m pretty good at handling overthinking and anxiety in general when my time and my schedule isn’t mine, when I have a home base, but when I’m.

Sawyer (04:47)
Mmm.

Jeez. Yeah, man.

Mm-hmm.

Giacomo (05:04)
And I hate to use the word bad, but for the, for to make the conversation easier, I’m bad at it when I travel because I, cause I lose sense of control of my environment. And sometimes I get.

Sawyer (05:10)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, we don’t have as much structure,

right? So it’s just chaos.

Giacomo (05:18)
And sometimes

I’ll like literally get right ready to travel. And right before I’m about to do something, boom, that’s when my body gets tweaked out. For example, which I feel like is a decent segue from what we want to talk about, which is not exactly like your muscles spasming because you’re stressed. Although I do feel like that plays a role in injury, but it’s the idea of, of when injury strikes, why it happens. What do you do? How do you, mean, that’s basically this whole episode is about, it’s about injuries.

Sawyer (05:26)
Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Giacomo (05:45)
What comes to mind

for you? mean, I’m surprised. I mean, does that happen to you when you travel, friend?

Sawyer (05:50)
like feeling like it all kind of swirls. I mean, yeah, to some degree, everybody just experiences some disruption in their normal kind of go through. Like when we were going from the US to Spain, it was like a couple of weeks of just being like, it out with my training program, my nutrition got a little bit crazy, didn’t have a scale for a while. So I wasn’t able to you know, have as good a metrics,

But ultimately, think you just gotta remember that things will calm down. even if things kinda do feel a little bit out of control for a while, you can’t panic. But like you said, sometimes there are things that kind of go off the rails a little bit. Like you get a little tweak here or there. That happens to everybody, I think, especially when you’re trying hard at anything. And then there’s some factors, no matter how much control you try to have, even if you’re in your…

comfort zone and your routine’s perfect, can still go wrong, right? So, you know, injury is kind of an inevitability. It’s kind of a part of life and kind of part of fitness in general. So I’m really glad we’re talking about it because I think that’s something I have a lot of thoughts about. But yeah, I definitely, I think it’s more likely to happen when you’re feeling a little off kilter. Like you’re trying to hold on to routine, you’re trying to hold on to control.

but you’re kind of out of it, maybe not as attuned with your body. Maybe you’re using a new different piece of equipment, because you’re at a different place, and now you kind of try to push it as hard as you do on one you’re really used to, and it’s just not the same, maybe you get hurt that way. I don’t know, but that’s a good point you’re making, is like, something is out of your control, and it could be a lot of things in your life, it could just be one thing, but…

that can lead to injury and that can kind of spark this whole cascade of things that comes after, which we’ll talk about.

Giacomo (07:34)
They don’t want to

say, don’t want this turning into a therapy session. So I know how empathic you and I could be and we’re all about our fields and all that. And they were, they’re like, I’m listening to a fitness podcast. What let me, let me get into like what I would think about, or at least if I was in my head over here as a listener, I would say to myself, okay, well, what would make sense here? Right. Well, when we think about it from the perspective of a, uh, of a coach, what’s like the easiest way to reach somebody. Although I do feel like it’s important to talk about all that stuff too. Like I’m not.

Sawyer (07:37)
Hahaha ⁓

Yeah.

Yeah.

Giacomo (08:02)
swear I’m not dismissing. it’s the idea of like, okay, so I have hired a fitness coach or I’m following my fitness and nutrition program. have the control here and I’m doing something. And then like you wind up putting all this pressure on yourself and you wind up doing things that maybe you shouldn’t. You don’t manage your, you don’t manage your recovery well, or you’re so focused on performance that you’re pushing hard and you should, or like you see yourself reaching the goalpost and you get excited and you overreach with what you’re doing or your nerves.

Sawyer (08:04)
You

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. I’ve done that before.

⁓

Giacomo (08:31)
All of it, all the above. and it’s,

and then what happens? You, you wind up getting bit and, and you realize the hard way. We’re not going to talk about how to avoid that. That’s a different episode, a different time, ⁓ to talk about that on a different day. But the idea is now it’s something has happened. Like no matter how responsive, responsible and balanced you’ve tried to be with your approach, your, your sideline. So what, so I mean,

Sawyer (08:37)
Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Giacomo (08:56)
Injury. I tend to shy away from using the word injury. So, for the purposes of this conversation, why don’t we, why don’t we classify injury as something that prevents you from training the next training session, as opposed to like a full on, I have a muscle sprain and I need to be out for the, and I need certain, you know, I’m considering options. You know what mean? Let’s talk about just like something simple that, puts you out for a couple of days or a week. What do you do with a client when that happens?

Sawyer (09:13)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, think, yeah, severity is always a consideration, right? If somebody says, you know, I just got crazy sore from that workout, like, okay, you know, I’ll say maybe your next session, kind of feel it out. You don’t maybe do as many sets. Maybe go a little bit lighter than you normally would. If you’re feeling like it may have been something like more intense than is a normal…

expectation of soreness or recovery time. So you can kind of go with that. You can kind of say, hey, like just dip your toe in the next time you do that exercise or training that muscle group. I think that’s good advice just in general, because like, I don’t know, warm-up sets are a good idea for that reason anyway. You can kind of feel out how does my muscle feel this, you know, today, not just am I getting the muscle ready, but like also am I checking in with it to make sure my recovery is okay is a good idea too.

But then sometimes, I mean, I don’t know if you want to talk about this at this point, but like, know, if it, if it does prove to be a bigger deal than initially you may have guessed, I think there’s some kind of protocols to go through there too. So, ⁓ I don’t know if you want to go there yet, or if you have some things to add about like the tweet little, little stuff first.

Giacomo (10:24)
Well, if it’s acute enough, do have my general textbook standardized formula process that I give to somebody. I, and I feel like it’s really helpful when we just spit out fast tips and stuff like that. before we get too into the weeds here with details of this conversation, the first thing that I do, if it’s acute enough is I wait for the next day to realize whether or not it, well, first of all, if something feels really bad, like really bad, you stop.

Sawyer (10:32)
Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Giacomo (10:49)
Like if you’re going through

Sawyer (10:49)
Mm-hmm.

Giacomo (10:50)
a full range of motion and something happens and like you feel something sharp or acute, a sharp or acute sensation, you stop immediately. Stop. Don’t do another rep because your muscles will just spasm harder. Not to say you’ll make it worse, but your muscles will spasm harder. It’ll be a little more uncomfortable. Your body’s starting to recover. So the next day you, your muscles are spasm, your body’s inflamed and you lay off for 24 to 72 hours. If it’s really bad and you’re in a lot of pain,

Sawyer (10:54)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Giacomo (11:16)
And you want to manage a pain with something like an NSAID. You can take up to what 400 milligrams four times a day. Be careful. That stuff’s not good for your kidneys. And it’s at the person’s discretion, like your pain tolerance and your comfort level. How what’s going on sometimes, sometimes pain is so bad that your muscles are so spasming that like it literally hurts to like move, you know, um, and use your better judgment. You know, some people are, you know, don’t want to, don’t want to bother, but while you’re doing that, you also.

Sawyer (11:36)
Mm-hmm.

Giacomo (11:44)
ice the area down and you rest it and you elevate it if you can. So like, let’s say that it’s a, let’s say you sprained something on your leg, like rest, rest your leg, put an ice pack on it. lay. And I would say you can do cold therapy for maybe 20 minutes up to like four times a day, like a bag of peas or something. I usually typically like to wrap, wrap some cellophane around it so that it stays on the muscle so that I can get up and about and move about my day and not feel.

Sawyer (11:47)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Giacomo (12:10)
literally sidelined from work or my family or whatever I want to do. Um, and then after that 24 to 72 hour period, you’re, safe enough to safe enough to know what you’re working with. Your muscle spasm to protect the muscle that’s injured to make sure that you can’t use it. So if you try to do like a chiropractor, a visit or a massage, some massage therapy in those first three days, which I have done giant mistake, your muscles will just spasm harder. You do it in vain. That’s, that’s, mean, I don’t want to say stupid cause that sounds condescending, but

Sawyer (12:14)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Well, it seems it’s intuitive, right? Like your your counterintuitive, I should say, because when you when you like get swelling, like, for instance, your neck, you wake up and your neck is like, what the heck? And you just want to like instinctively like work it out. Not necessarily a terrible thing to move a little bit. But if you’re like trying to undo the injury, like I’ve caught myself doing that sometimes being like, maybe I’m just too stiff. And it like hurts to move. But I keep moving it because it loosens it up. But

Giacomo (12:39)
Don’t make this episode.

Sawyer (13:04)
or warms up the area. But then it comes back with a passion, with a fury later because you’ve just moved an area that was swelling because your body didn’t want it to move. Yeah, I agree. think sometimes when it’s acute, you probably want to give it some time to move again. The swelling is to immobilize the area, and you’ve got to respect the fact that your body doesn’t want to move that right now. It’s trying to focus all its energy on healing you, and if you keep trying to…

make it move when it doesn’t want to, might not be good news. Anyway, continue.

Giacomo (13:36)
Sure. So now when, so after three days, you are able to mobilize. And now at this point in time, you don’t go back to your normal working weights. You try somewhere between 50 to 70%. That was a little guideline that Lane Norton gave to me when I was working with him and I just stick with it because it works. And then I do that for a couple of days and then eventually I’m back to a hundred percent and it just works. It’s a tried and true, not to say it’s the only way or the right way. It is the way that I guide people. And if, and if at that…

Sawyer (13:40)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Giacomo (14:03)
within that timeline, if it’s not working out, then you’ve done something, you’ve done something. And at that point, I don’t want to say get diagnosed because diagnostics are very expensive, even with insurance. And it’s an arduous process that you may not, and by the time you get the answer, you may already be better. But it’s at least worth considering seeing some sort of specialist or just realizing, hey, I’m working with something a lot different here than just like a general strain.

Sawyer (14:11)
you

Yeah.

and

Mm-hmm, yeah. Yeah, there does come a point at which it’s like, okay, it’s not getting better on its own. Probably a good idea to go see somebody, physical therapist. But yeah, think when it is more serious like that, yeah, the first thing is you have to realize you can’t just go about your routine. You can’t just go back into things the way you were doing them, because it’s likely that you’re going to be using that area of your body and then like

re-injuring it each time. If you’re trying to work back up to what you were doing before and it’s just not working, I think you’d need to hit the pause button and just think, okay, if every time I do this it gets worse or it’s still lingering, I need to reimagine things a little bit here. And that’s where you can get a little bit into the weeds. So for something more like that…

How do you think about it? So when it’s acute, you’re like, okay, reintroduce some stimulus when you feel after 72 hours or so, kind of lean back into it. But say it’s been a week, two weeks, and it’s just causing pain pretty much all the time. What do you do then? I’m curious.

Giacomo (15:26)
Well, that’s what recently happened with me with my leg. I thought I could have sworn I had a hernia. I really went and dropped Trow in the locker room. I’m like, I’m staring. I’m like, what’s going on over there? Something’s very wrong. This doesn’t feel good. I was, I was straining myself on belt squats while I was trying to figure out the movement. hadn’t quite adapted to it yet. It’s a new movement for me. And I also put a little too much weight on trying to figure out the weight. And I was pushing my legs really hard and up in the weight cause I was in the middle of the bulk. So.

Sawyer (15:30)
⁓

Yeah.

Oof. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Giacomo (15:54)
But anyways, point is like, was like, this doesn’t feel good. And then, you know, the conversation starts, Oh, your father had a hernia when you’re talking to your mom or all this other guy, maybe you have a hernia and then you go to a doctor and like, I want to give you an ultrasound. like, I don’t want to pay $500 and then potentially an MRI blah, blah. And so I was like, let me talk to a surgeon. So the surgeon’s like, it out a little bit. Cause I, I mean, I just had a consult with him. So I went through all these motions, but as far as like, beside all of that, trying to like figure out what’s going on.

Sawyer (15:56)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Giacomo (16:22)
I also

immediately stopped doing the exercise that caused it stopped doing the belt squat. and I tested myself on the, on the leg press. And I said, does this hurt? I had a much lower weight and it did it. but then I went up and wait and like pressing and still hurt. Like I could literally feel the sliding motion inside my leg. ⁓ as I went back down to wait, and then two weeks later, it still didn’t hurt. And I was still good. I’m like, okay. My coach is like, you can figure this out on your terms. I’m like, good.

Sawyer (16:25)
Mm-hmm.

Hmm… Hmm…

Giacomo (16:46)
as opposed to being like, ⁓ don’t train or you’re injured. Like a good coach will guide you as opposed to be like, don’t train this, you what was you like, okay, well how do we assess this thing and keep training? And then eventually I was able to get back on the belt squat without pain. And then eventually I was able to go back to the exact way to use with the belt squat and the leg press. All the while, emotionally, I was very concerned. I was worried that I had a hernia and I might need some mesh netting down there. Turns out I didn’t.

Sawyer (16:55)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Giacomo (17:12)
You know,

Dr. AI told me it could have also been a muscle sprain or muscle strain. I don’t know what I had Sawyer, but all I know is it’s two months later and I’m fine.

Sawyer (17:17)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, no, I think that’s really good. And that’s what I was kind of hoping we would get to is with something more serious that’s not going away in 72 hours or a week, like it is very much about testing the waters and on a more long term, like you just have to like lower your expectations in terms of the turnaround you’re going to have when you just know that something is just a little bit more deep tissue, maybe more connective tissue, something that’s a little bit slower to heal.

And I’ve had that before too, like there was a time where I was squatting really heavy, know, obviously like, you know, the lot can go wrong with compound exercises, it’s training them really heavy because there’s a lot of smaller muscles and tissues that can get overwhelmed. Anyway, I had an adapter strain. It was like four months later and I was laying in bed and being like, I haven’t done any leg pressing in months, you know, or any kind of squatting pattern in months. And it was still like throbbing, like my adapter was still bothering me.

And that’s when I started to realize like, I need to reintroduce stimulus. So what I ended up doing was I actually started doing Copenhagen planks, like the ones where you have one leg over the bench and one leg under, and just doing like a static hold. Right? And so what I was trying to do was reintroduce that tissue to some more stimulus, but not in the way that would overwhelm it immediately. Right? So before, when I was just like, I’m just going to stay away from using it.

it wasn’t getting better, right? And it really taught me like, okay, there’s a middle ground here. You can’t just go on like nothing happened and there’s no pain happening, but you also can’t do nothing. Because it’s like when you have an injury, it’s like bringing whatever that tissue is back down to zero. It’s like not even crawling anymore when your other muscles are running. And so,

you have to like bring it back up to speed so that it can function alongside all these other tissues. so yeah, static holds, things with like smaller range of motion and lighter weights and more control are gonna slowly walk you back to where those other muscles are. And so yeah, for me, that was a really educational experience of like, okay, so long-term pain does not just mean avoid it indefinitely. means slow, really, really

try to just dig in and have some patience for that tissue and reintroduce it to the load in a smart, patient way. And that’s what I talk to people about when I coach them. say, okay, looks like this has been around for a while. Obviously, yeah, do your due diligence if you wanna go talk to an expert and get some imaging done or talk to a physical therapist if you wanna try some new things. But what does a physical therapist do? Basically, their entire job is to pinpoint the area.

find some exercises that train it, and then slowly work that person up in terms of what they can handle, what that tissue can handle. So that’s what I tell people. It’s like, if you can pinpoint it yourself and it’s not causing acute pain, like how you felt when you caused the injury, and you’re coming back stronger, you just gotta be patient at that point, you know? Gradual exposure. So, but it’s…

That’s emotionally challenging, so I don’t know if you want to get into that then, but you know, like how you were saying, like I really think, yeah, like you were really afraid.

Giacomo (20:24)
I absolutely do. Now it’s time

for the feelings and how you react and respond and what you do and how it’s so much more than just a technical, typical details that we get lost in when we’re just trying to search for the solution and the fix, which obviously it’s a really important component of it, but it’s like being an engineer. You could be really good at making, turning something into a system and getting to your result, your goal, but you’re going to, you’re going to miss some things.

Sawyer (20:35)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Giacomo (20:51)
you’re gonna make some bad decisions, you just are. So knowing yourself and especially when you have someone to support, whether it’s a friend, family member, your coach or whatever, to help you get out of your own way and help you encourage you and support you, I feel like that really helps. Yeah, and then one of the first things I do is call mom. What can I say? I’m a mama’s boy. She’s there for me like that. But yeah, I speak to my coach about it. I think about it on my own ⁓ because it’s easy to get down on yourself.

Sawyer (20:52)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Giacomo (21:16)
I would, I, I don’t know about you, but for me, it, what I’ve seen over the years is that training is a thing that grounds everybody. Once they fall in love, once they’re, I don’t want to say addictive, but once like, once training becomes the bedrock of what they’re doing, if something’s taken away out of their routine, people start to, get to a place where they’re almost starting to self-sabotage because they’re down on themselves or they’re blaming themselves or this or that. And they don’t have that. So

Sawyer (21:37)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Giacomo (21:41)
they wind up, uh, their eating habits change and they’re affected. Um, they’re, they’re walking around angry or sad or anxious. For example, they’re feeling like a failure, like they caused it. Um, and they’re also worried about their actual capabilities. What are they going to be able to do after the fact? And if you don’t nip that stuff in the bud, like in the beginning, sometimes that stuff can last way longer.

Sawyer (21:55)
you

Giacomo (22:05)
than you want it to. And before you know it, it’s four months later, you’re like, what’d do to myself? Or worse, sometimes it’s years later. So I think it’s a really critical time when something happens, it’s a really critical time for you to check in with yourself and make sure that you don’t derail. So how do those conversations look like for you with your clients and stuff like this goes down?

Sawyer (22:11)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah, that’s a really good, I really like how you laid that out. I think first of all, you gotta keep everything else that can remain positive and the same, the same. Like if you’re not, you like you were saying with your squatting patterns, that was bothering your leg, but I’m sure you still did everything else that wasn’t bothering your leg. Like you’re still bench pressing, you’re still rowing, like things like that. And maybe they had to modify, if you’re doing like a standing row.

and now you have to switch to like a seated machine or something, okay, fine. But you still kept those other things in place because you know that those are gonna help you feel like normal. Like you didn’t just have to stop your entire life and like focus on this one thing. That would be like, you know, catastrophizing and just being like, this one roadblock is all that matters right now. You don’t wanna do that. So I think that’s the first thing. And then I think it’s important to like reflect on

what, like not only what caused it, but like what can I learn from this? Like both emotionally and like physiologically. Like if I, like it’s often the case that people have like problem areas. Like they consistently hurt a similar area. You know, for some people it’s their low back or it’s their knees or it’s their shoulder. And I think what that is is like you need to learn something.

and you’re gonna keep running into the same problem until you really figure it out. And so when somebody tells me, I have this problem area, I start thinking, okay, we need to creatively. We need to educate about the anatomy is a big part of it. If you don’t understand how the joint works or the connective tissue or the muscle works, then you’re already starting at a disadvantage. So I think anatomy comes first, function along with it. And then…

Giacomo (23:53)
Okay.

Sawyer (24:02)
If we identify, okay, these movements tend to affect it in a negative way, like if you’re not perfectly in control, then stuff can kind of get out of control or you can, know, whatever, what’s the issue? Sometimes it’s a load management thing. Like for me, I busted up my shoulder whenever I was pushing for a bench press PR because I didn’t care how I got it. I was just like, I want that number. And then I messed myself up for three months because

I was pushing so hard for this PR. So that was an easy one where it was like, that was stupid. Don’t exceed what you can actually do just because you’re attached to a number, right? That’s one that’s pretty straightforward. But sometimes people, it could be something like, towards the end of a set, they really want that last rep. They think they’re not pushing hard enough. If they don’t do that, that’s another one I can fall into sometimes.

Sometimes it’s just like they have convinced themselves that something is a normal thing that’s not like they feel the acute pain starting to accumulate over the course of a workout with a certain load or certain exercise, but they do it anyway. They’re like, this is how that exercise feels, I guess. They kind of normalize it, rationalize it later. There’s a lot of things that can happen, but I think when you start from a level of understanding the anatomy and the function of these muscles and joints,

it can help lend context to when you’re feeling something, experiencing something in your body, and instead of internalizing it, because I think that’s human nature is when you don’t understand something, you just blame yourself. You just say, ⁓ I’m stupid, or I have this weak body part, or I just, whatever. Instead of looking and trying to learn more, because that’s what I’m saying. I think there’s something to be learned, especially with repeat injuries.

when there’s something that keeps happening over and over and over again, there’s something you need to learn about your body and what you’re doing that remains obscure. You know what I’m saying? So, do you, I mean, do you agree with that? Do you feel like you’ve had examples of that? Do you have like protocols for how to avoid that with people or help them through that? I’m curious.

Giacomo (26:03)
Way to avoid what you mean. What do you mean by avoid that?

Sawyer (26:05)
Like when they keep running

into repeat injuries or they just seem to not understand what’s causing it, how do you work through that with people? Because I have some ideas, but I don’t have a standard protocol for that. You know what I mean?

Giacomo (26:18)
Patience, people repeat their mistakes for a while until they don’t. And just because you have the answer doesn’t mean they’re going to be able to hear you out and get it from them. So I think the first thing is patience in a non-judgmental supportive way. And the second thing is encouraging them to look at things a little differently. I feel like it can be difficult to get someone to start to, excuse me, assess how to do things a little differently when they just got hurt.

Sawyer (26:26)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Giacomo (26:43)
It’s, it’s really hard to get them there, but I like that your mind goes there immediately and that you throw that context at your client because that is a really helpful thing to consider. And it can, and if it’s done the right way, if you can open up the door to them being able to start to analyze, assess, and consider how to do things differently, whether it’s they need to focus on your sleep or they need to be aware of how hard they’re pushing or how frequently they’re training.

Sawyer (26:54)
Yeah. Yeah.

Giacomo (27:10)
they need to eat a little more, for example, or train accordingly based on whatever it is that they have access to energy-wise. Like, especially if you’re like depleted, it’s like, why are you not paying attention to your body mechanics? You know, we got to make you more aware of your body mechanics, your glycogen storage is depleted, you have less mass in your frame, you’re moving like you had 10 more pounds on you, but you don’t. So let’s get you to move in a way that’s appropriate for the way your body is now. Like all these things you could think about as opposed to being like, well, it just happened.

Sawyer (27:12)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Giacomo (27:37)
I got to get through this next week and cause you’re bound to repeat the same thing again and again and again. I mean, I feel like you’re still going to, feel like you will wind up repeating the same thing again and again, typically until you get it right. But if you use your approach, so you’re each time that happens, you’ll be more aware of how it happened and you’ll have done less of the things that have caused it. And it’ll be less of an issue. Ideally.

Sawyer (27:41)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

and the cool thing about coaching is that the longer you’ve been doing it, the more cases you’ve seen and the more experience you have with common injuries. So you can say, okay, I think this is probably what’s happening, but the real confirmation for me and the thing that I’m always encouraging clients to do is send me form videos, especially if you feel like something’s a little bit wrong or I’m not feeling this in the place that I should be or this lift feels different from when I used to do it. Anything that changes, anything that you want,

or you need feedback on anything that you’re not sure if you’re doing it right, just send it to me because I can give you a different perspective. Because if I’m seeing somebody strain and really crank their back in a certain position, or I’m seeing somebody do something that just mechanically is not very advantageous, they’re putting themselves in a position where they’re not even really training the target muscle more effectively, but more just putting themselves in a compromised position where they don’t have as much control over the load.

All that stuff matters. All that stuff matters and it’s very hard for them to know what to communicate. Like they might just be like, yeah, these feel harder lately or these feel different lately. That’s all they can feel or perceive about a lift. And so just sending the set can communicate so much information. We can skip so much like guessing back and forth questions. If you just send me the set itself or like the exercise that feels a little wonky. So that’s a big thing. And then

when I can start poking around and thinking, well what happens when your scapula comes up like this? What does it feel like? And then we can experiment with like, all right, well let’s make sure we stay depressed. Let’s see how that feels. We have more options there. Whereas if I’m just guessing at how they’re doing an exercise or they’re telling me how they’re doing an exercise, it’s not always the same thing.

I really, really do like when people send form videos and not even when they’re in pain all the time, just like when something feels different, because we could probably get ahead of some of the points of education. Like you probably know as an experienced lifter, it’s just like there’s so much you learn through movement and through being a lifter for a long time that it’s very hard to communicate and to…

I guess even verbalize until you see somebody doing it a different way and then you think, yeah, I used to do it like that and then I have this problem or I’ve seen people do it like this and report this problem. So let me even just mention it. Even if I haven’t experienced it myself, it’s giving us other options for things to try. Maybe it’ll feel better, you know? Because everybody’s different anatomically. So it’s just like, it’s worth the…

Giacomo (30:26)
Absolutely.

Sawyer (30:30)
just trying to checking in on. But for me, it seems to be one of the hardest things to get people to do is send me videos of their sets.

Giacomo (30:35)
Look,

I’ll put myself on the chopping block here. The first four years I worked with my coach, want, you want to know what I did? I mean, it’s been seven years now and I’m like, I could send him anything. have no attachment to it anymore. But in the beginning, we were both fitness influencers, right? So to speak, fitness coaches. And I was like, I’m being judged. And I also have my own insecurities about being criticized by someone else and also being critical of myself.

Sawyer (30:43)
Mm-hmm.

you

Giacomo (30:59)
So I would send it confidently and being like, I need to do this. I would give all the form checks, but then you know what the very first thing I thought of was? I need this form check to be the right form check or it’s going to get torn apart. So I’m going to take a specific set where it’s a warmup set as opposed, and he’s like, dude, send the heaviest set. And I’m like, really? You know, it was an ego thing. And then after that, I would be like, okay, I would do it. be like, I have to watch this first because I have to be my own critic before he does.

Sawyer (31:13)
I’ll…

you

I don’t

Giacomo (31:27)
And that was another insecurity. then another time, and then another thing I would do is I would send the form check. And if I’m thinking these things, then other people must be too, right? Which they don’t say it, but I wonder, right? So, and then I would, I would find you a form check and it’d be like, okay, I’m bracing myself for how this person’s going to say it. Even though after the fact, there was no worry. They gave me supportive advice. Then after the fact, I’m like, if I don’t do it right the second time, am I failing myself because I am failing my coach because I didn’t do it.

Sawyer (31:27)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

you

Mm-hmm.

Giacomo (31:54)
The second time around, and now we’re afraid to even send the next form check. And there’s all these things we do to protect ourselves from other people criticizing us and from us criticizing ourselves. But now eventually through repetition, I’ve developed a confidence where I can literally send something. Um, if I have the time, I will analyze it on my own, you know, sometimes even with my coach before he even says something because it helps me get invested in the process. Video analysis is like immensely helpful. And then my coach sent something to me I’m like, wow.

Sawyer (31:54)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Giacomo (32:21)
Okay. And now he’s able to explain the cues. I’m listening. I’m taking them. I’m running with them and doing nothing. only thing that is standing in the way between me and doing it more and more is time. Um, but I mean, there are all kinds of reasons why people are afraid of criticism. Um, and they’ll just say something like, well, you know, it’s sometimes it’s just, it’s hard thing to just fill in yourself sometimes depending on it. But if you have access to fill yourself and you don’t mind putting in the work and the effort to do so, if there was something you can get out of it, then not even a personal trainer.

Sawyer (32:28)
Yep.

Mm-hmm.

Giacomo (32:47)
who’s working with you and cueing you and putting their hands on you to adjust you can do, because you are literally watching yourself do it. There’s no replacement for it, none. And imagine having someone else go through that with you. And it makes such a huge difference to make sure you’re moving safe and well.

Sawyer (32:51)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I love that.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, dude, you nailed it. Like, it’s so easy to get caught up about, you know, am I doing this right and should I know how to do this? I’ve been doing it so long, like, have I been doing it wrong? Like, I don’t want to be told that. You know, that could be a real hit to my ego, but I think it’s really cool how you did do it and how you’ve built trust with your coach, that he’s not gonna tear you apart.

and make you feel small for having some stuff to learn. Like that’s just a part of being alive and being someone who wants to get really good at something is just taking in as much information as you can, testing it out. Does it work for me? Does it not work for me? Like that’s the value of other perspectives and you have to be humble in your pursuit of knowledge. Otherwise you can get kind of stuck in a certain way of doing things and that becomes rigid and stale and you don’t, you won’t really understand concepts if you don’t understand all the schools of thought.

on different things. I think, you know, kudos to you for being able to drop the ego and be like, you know what? I just need to show him what he was asking for and learn what I can because like nobody knows everything, no matter how long they’ve been doing it. And, and you can always improve. You can always at least learn something new. Like even if it doesn’t apply to you, that person could be like, you know, sometimes people with this anatomical aspect, like feel better like doing this. And you’re like, I didn’t even know that. And then you help one of your clients with that. So it’s like, you better get a better coach too.

I love that. Yeah, so I think that’s maybe we could do a whole other podcast on like metrics, like collection, you know, and like how you are kind of curating it first and like trying to appear like, okay, I know what I’m doing and maybe maybe critique myself first. I have a whole lot of stuff I can say about that, but is there anything else you want to go over with like?

You know, injury and controlling the narrative in your mind and coming at it with humility. Cause I mean, we could talk more like specifics, like hard and fast things, like talk about tempo load management, you know, anatomical things like common things that people get wrong. I mean, I’m, I’m open to any of that stuff. No. Okay. Okay. So I think first things first, I think load management is probably the most important thing we’ve already touched on that how like.

Giacomo (34:54)
Go for it. Go for it.

Sawyer (35:05)
You don’t want to just go full force into anything and just see what you can do, right? That’s like not really knowing how to swim yet and then just jumping right into the deep end. You kind of want to walk into the deep end and see what you can handle because each new movement, each new little variation of a movement is slightly different. Like you said, with the belt squat, like that’s different than a barbell squat, which is different from a leg press, which is different from so many other movements, Smith machine squat, you know? So even though they’re the same movement pattern,

there’s still more to learn about that specific one. And if you’re to jump right to the top of what you think you can possibly handle, you’re just introducing a whole lot of uncertainty and at a high risk level. So I think that’s first things first. You don’t really want to jump in anything with a high load. And then I think also controlling tempo in some form can be really helpful, especially at first. We’ve seen those

pro squatters and things who could just dive bomb into a squat and then pop back out. But they’ve earned that right. They understand how the squat works and how their body functions and where their positioning is so well that they can go a little bit faster. Just like somebody who is a Formula One driver can drive faster than the average person because they know how everything’s supposed to feel and they’ve done it a million times. But if that’s not you with that movement,

then don’t try to dive bomb into anything. I think tempo needs to be controlled at least a little bit. ⁓ And then if you decide you want to go faster later for whatever reason, fine. But don’t start out with that, you know?

Giacomo (36:23)
Hmm.

Mm.

2-0-2-0, I feel like that’s the safest tempo. just 2-0-2-1 the eccentric, 2-0-2-1 the concentric, depending on what exercises and when you’re, and it doesn’t have to be 1-1,000, 2-1,000, just 2-0-2-0 when you’re at 1-2, 1-2, and you’re balanced up and down. And even just having an idea in mind that you’re going to pay attention to tempo and you want an even cadence, usually sets you straight where you’re not like rushing through the sets and you’re rushing through the exercise. And act.

Sawyer (36:39)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Giacomo (37:01)
the right kind of rest between sets too. Some people literally, they think they’re pressed for time, they can be more efficient. It’s like, you just rested 15 seconds in between your sets and you’re bulldozing through these reps and you’re not getting the proper stimulus. And by the way, you’re probably not moving well either.

Sawyer (37:05)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, that’s a good point. Yeah, if you’re dog tired, I mean, just think about when you’re running and you start to get really tired, your footsteps start to be a little bit erratic, you can’t control as much. I mean, that’s inviting injury in a lot of ways where, especially if that’s not your training goal is to get more endurance, doesn’t really make sense to be going at a breakneck speed. So that’s a good thing I wasn’t even gonna mention. ⁓ I think this one’s a little bit more complex, but

Giacomo (37:24)
Yeah.

Yeah.

True.

Sawyer (37:43)
but it’s equally important, if not the most important of them all, is understanding your particular anatomy. And that really comes with time. I think it’s really hard to just be like, ⁓ I have long arms relative to my torso, and so that means I have to bench press like this or whatever. Because a lot of times people don’t understand their anatomy and they try to squat with a certain foot position or they think they should lift a certain amount of weight when somebody has a mechanical advantage over them.

So there’s a whole lot of context that goes into understanding your anatomy. And so you have to, you kind of have to put the blinders on and think, okay, does this feel good to me? Like, just at a basic level, like, do I feel pinching? Do I feel sharp pain? Do I feel like I’m able to keep the target muscle under stress? Or do I feel like things are starting to break down even though I’m following the cues that somebody else told me are really good? I think we need to get away from the idea that

There’s just some guru that can tell you everything about how to do an exercise from one video or one experience working with them. Granted, some people are better than others at looking at your specific anatomy and helping guide you through the process, but it is a process of figuring out what feels best for you and why. For instance, just a basic example of somebody with more forward-facing hip sockets might like squatting with a foot forward, closer.

position and somebody with more lateral facing hip sockets might like squatting with a wider more toes out type position. But you can’t know that until you try it and you feel the little bit of like difference in how it feels when you get to the bottom of a squat that the pinching that can happen in the hips the kind of where your foot like where your weight likes to go as you’re pressing through your feet. So I think I think people need to try to not shortcut that process and not look to somebody for the absolute answers of like

this is how you should squat every time. I think that is, that’s dangerous ⁓ kind of content to be listening to. And you need to like make sure you’re doing your homework when you’re watching these videos and hopefully listening to people who are like, hey, there’s a little bit of variation here. Try these different things out, you know, before you like really commit to like, this is my form on this exercise, you know? So that was a little bit of a longer one, but do you have anything to add on that one?

Giacomo (39:57)
Not really, I’m just thinking about all the different ways that you can adjust for them to find something that’s comfortable for your body and it’s trial and error, like you said, an experiment.

Sawyer (40:05)
Yeah,

I mean there’s so many rabbit holes to go down with that one, because as we know, we’re always constantly modifying things for people and their specific anatomy and things like that. But I guess if you’re working with a coach, if you’re working with a trainer, just be as descriptive as you can and don’t assume that something’s supposed to feel a certain way or whatever. Because yeah, form videos are helpful because I can see maybe what your knees are trying to do or what…

looks like it might be more comfortable for you, but unless I know what your subjective experience is, like how comfortable does your joint feel, where does your muscle feel actually active, I’m guessing too. I need more information. The more information you can give us, the better, the easier that process is gonna be. Yeah, so I’d say that’s a big one. Yeah, go ahead.

Giacomo (40:50)
Yeah.

The, okay. The, the two thoughts I

had that were slipping, came to me again before I lose that. So the first thought is as you start lifting more and more routinely with whatever exercise plan you’re on, you’re going to wind up being able to become stronger with those movements. And you’re going to be able to recruit those muscles that you’re recruiting better. And you’re going to be able to feel them as you build muscle, you’d be able to feel your muscles. So at one thing is giving it time, giving it time to actually.

Sawyer (40:57)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Giacomo (41:20)
feel the form and learn the form. And the other thing is that the other thing that’s worth noting though is that as you get stronger, you can sometimes put yourself in a position where you can overpower the movement and you have to be careful about that too. Cause you haven’t quite, you know, your body’s not quite, hasn’t quite learned the neural pathways and you haven’t quite gotten completely familiar with the muscles that you’re recruiting and how you’re recruiting them. But all the while to your point, Sawyer,

Sawyer (41:21)
Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Giacomo (41:46)
there may be some exercises that are maybe not best suited for you. And there may be other ways to experiment with changing the form of said exercise. So there’s a lot of things to think about, but ⁓ throughout the whole process, it generally, it has the potential to be an overwhelmingly positive experience for you as you’re working out the kinks, which sometimes feel like pain. when like, know, early in the conversation, you’re like, you you have that person who thinks pain stop, not necessarily.

Sawyer (41:50)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Giacomo (42:12)
context matters.

Sawyer (42:13)
Yeah, think something to add to that would be that the more complex the lift, like a compound lift, is going to be, there’s just so much more to it than an isolation lift, for one thing. So the more complex and the stronger you get, you’re right, the stronger you get, that’s like higher risk, higher reward, right? You are getting stronger, but you’ve also got these other tissues involved, especially the more compound lifts.

that can get overwhelmed if something happens that you’re not anticipating. So it is a skill thing, especially, especially with the lifts that are less externally stabilized. So we’ve got kind of like a tier here, like the highest risk exercises, but in the most skilled demanding are the less externally stabilized and very compound exercises. So the squat, the bench press, the deadlift, like

Powerlifters are experts in those movements and they specialize on those movements with intense, they really understand the mechanics of those movements. And that’s for a reason, is because if they didn’t, they risk a lot of injury, they’d have a lot of trouble keeping their strength together and avoiding things that they want to avoid. that’s kind of like, there are a lot of benefits to doing those and learning those skills, but they are very skill intensive. And then on the other side of the spectrum,

we’ve got the isolation, like machine work, right? I mean, as long as it doesn’t hurt, and you get stronger at it, like you’re gonna probably build muscle that way. There’s not a huge skill requirement there. And so, yeah, if you’re worried about injury and you wanna like standardize a movement, probably going with like a machine, that’s like an isolation lift, you’re probably not gonna have to think about that way, the six ways to Sunday. And then like everything else is kinda in between that.

varying degrees of risk and like amount of skill required to get stronger without risking injury, I guess. So yeah, I don’t know if that’s helpful to people, but I’m just trying to give people like an analog of like, okay, how much should I think about this versus like what is really just more about like load management and things like that tempo. Because yeah, with a squat like.

Like I was saying, think if you’re getting to a certain level of strength and you keep running into the same issue, it’s probably that you need to learn something about the mechanics of the lift and how you’re handling it, how you’re setting it up. It’s probably that, especially the more often it happens. Because tissues are very, like human body’s so adaptive. Like it can handle a lot. Like you ever seen people do like a Jefferson curl with like 400 plus pounds, which is like, you know, that movement where people are like really like

spinal flexion all the way to the ground and then all the way rolling it back up. I mean, that’s amazing. Like that is, and like doing the squats with weight on their back or the splits with weight on their back. That kind of stuff is incredible to me what people can adapt to. But there’s also a high degree of like skill involved in that and really knowing how to, like how it’s supposed to feel and look for them, their specific anatomy.

versus, you so there’s a whole lot of years behind that is what I’m saying versus somebody who’s like, well, I just want to, you know, work my shoulders and you know, doing this overhead machine like works for me. Cool. Like go for it. It’s a low injury thing, like low risk injury thing, because you’ve got like a set track and there’s not a whole lot of wiggling you can do in that position that’s going to mess you up. So yeah, I don’t know.

Giacomo (45:16)
Yeah. ⁓

I love all that. Thank you for taking me down that rabbit hole with all the things that someone’s body can be capable of because I feel like we often sell ourselves short when we’re nervous about whatever or second guessing ourselves with what we’re capable of. Not to say that there isn’t work that you need to do or could potentially do outside of the gym, but even if you don’t, there’s a lot that you could accomplish inside of the gym. But maybe that’s, a different conversation for a different day when we talk about ways to mobilize your connective tissue, your muscles in other ways than…

Sawyer (45:30)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Giacomo (45:56)
training, do like occupational stuff or, or, ⁓ just, know, your body’s natural tendency to tighten up in certain ways or whatever you’ve done to yourself over the years from lifting, for example, or literally anything. So, but, you’d be surprised how far you can get without any of that stuff. I do feel like that can be a limiting factor for people too, though.

Sawyer (46:05)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, totally. And I’m not trying to fear monger here. I think people can adapt to a lot of things and they can get really, really skillful at things, but just know that the timeline is gonna be long. The powerlifters that are coaching people that are the best at what they do, they’ve been doing the squat for decades. They know that lift and how it was supposed to work and how it works for different athletes and why. It’s amazing what they know about that.

And I think you have to just know, if that’s the, whatever tool you’re choosing for the job, like, you’re gonna have to understand that tool really well, especially if it’s one of those, like, compound, very complex, not very externally stabilized movements, because there’s a lot that goes into it. So if you wanna be using the squat to build your legs, guess what, you’re gonna have to get really knowledgeable about all the different, you know, links in the kinetic chain.

to get you those strong legs. So there might be easier options depending on what your goals are. Like if it’s squat specific strength that you want and you want all the erector strength that comes with it, the ankle mobility, all that stuff that comes with it, then great, you’ve picked a great tool. But if it’s like, I just want big quads, there’s probably easier ways to do that my friend. So I don’t barbell squat because I don’t.

I don’t have the propensity or the desire to get that specialized with my knowledge. I really just want the bigger legs and I want to be able to do it reliably and predictably with a lower relative risk of injury or at least not being held back by smaller muscle groups that I don’t care about as much, something like that. Anyway, I guess one final point on this, I’d love to hear your thoughts on this too.

is managing your, or guess the narrative you could say in your head of about injury going forward. Because I think it’s easy to get too heavy handed in one direction or the other. Like what I saying, when I had that ad up to injury, I was like, I’m just not gonna do that anymore. It was a while where I was just like, I’m not doing those. Categorically, it’s a no for me until I feel better, whatever. But some people will do that for decades, and they’ll be like, I can’t do…

because one time I did it and it really hurt and ever since then I’ve been really scared to do it. That happens. And then there’s people who act like nothing happened and they hurt themselves every time they try to go back and do that thing again and they just refuse to learn about, you know what I mean? So there’s like the two extremes where people are like, I’m never doing that again. ⁓ and I’m always going to do that no matter what, even if it hurts, camp. How do you manage that narrative and how do you kind of put it in that sweet spot of like,

You know, I don’t even want to put words in your mouth. How do you frame that for people and how do you frame that for yourself?

Giacomo (48:54)
The worst thing you can do is invalidate someone. The second worst thing you can do is be their friend only.

Sawyer (48:57)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Giacomo (49:02)
So I

think acknowledging their experience and how they’re framing it and gaining their earning their trust and then encouraging them to do what they to get them to believe in themselves. They can change. can they and hopefully over time, the conversation that they have with themselves gets reframed and they gain confidence because they see that they are in fact capable. And you also have to realize as you’re going through it with them.

Sawyer (49:16)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Giacomo (49:30)
the difference between chronic pain and injuries and what it’s done to them as far as their current limitations or limitations or concerns as opposed to like pretending like nothing happened or they’re not working with anything. So I feel like those are like kind of some of the things I think about when it comes to somebody who’s coming to me who is coming from not just a psychological place, but there is something there, not like, I have deep regret. haven’t worked in this for five years and now I’m deconditioned, but like,

Sawyer (49:42)
you

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Giacomo (49:57)
something has happened to their body where you have to work through

it. And sometimes it’s more than just deconditioning from whatever happened. Sometimes they have some actual real issues that you have to work through. ⁓

Sawyer (50:02)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, that’s a good

point. And you know, we don’t know everything. Like we haven’t, we’re not doctors. We don’t, we haven’t been through every single thing and every single scenario. So it’s like, we have to admit when we’re, you know, it’s above our pay grade of like, somebody’s like, Hey, I was ⁓ diagnosed with like having hypermobile joints and like this, I forget, like I have a client, I forget what the heck the name of the syndrome is, but she has like this propensity or this, this tendency to get injured because what was it called?

Giacomo (50:13)
that too.

Ehlers-Danlos?

Ehlers-Danlos? Ehlers-Danlos? Yeah.

Sawyer (50:36)
Yes, that one, yes, exactly.

And so she’s like, I have to move very intentionally. And I’m like, I trust your expertise on that way more than me because you’ve been living with that for a long time. So when we talk about those kinds of things, I’m like, okay, let’s break it down in terms of like how you feel and how you experience and what I’ve seen and what I know about the mechanics of that lift. And so it’s more of a conversation, but yeah, I really like how you frame that where you’re like, you don’t wanna…

invalidate them and say, ⁓ you just got to get your mind right. Like, you know, pretending like they don’t know about their body, like anything that’d be silly, right? But at the same time to not challenge them at all, especially if you have some information that could help them. Like if you’re like, Hey, you know, I noticed when you squat, you, do always do this one. Why do you do that? Like if you don’t ask some probing questions and then maybe come up with some ideas for like, how can we change things based on what you know?

I think you could be missing out on some real gains there, some real positive influence you could have. So I like how you put that, man. That was really smart.

I think so too, man. I was just thinking, I was like, I feel good. I feel like I went through everything in my head that I wanted to go over. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, yeah, for sure. mean, yeah, thank you guys for joining us. I really appreciate you guys being here. I hope that was helpful for you and know that it’s hard to convey like specific information for you when we’re talking to everybody.

Giacomo (51:36)
think we pretty much covered most of it, what do think?

Mostly.

Why you take us home, buddy? We’ll give you your product thoughts.

Sawyer (52:01)
So if you’re interested in more detailed personalized information, come check us out, veganproteins.com. You know, can fill out an application there. You can meet with this lovely creature right here. I don’t know if I’m on this side, you’re on this side or this side for me. Well, whatever. You guys, there’s only two of us here. You know who I’m talking about. And yeah, and check us out. So Muscles by Brussels on Instagram.

Giacomo (52:13)
You pointed at the opposite side of the screen, but that’s fine. ⁓

Sawyer (52:24)
We’ve got vegan proteins on Instagram as well. I’m Soreboyfitnesscoaching on Instagram, Ben A. Mitchell, and veganproteinsalice. Come check us out, maybe learn some things, reach out to us. Thank you for joining us today on the Most of My Brussels podcast. And if there’s anything we can do for you, leave a comment below, reach out to us. We’re here for you guys. We wanna make sure that you can get the best information that we have available to us to you.

Anyways, we’ll catch you guys in the next one. Thanks so much for being here. I’m Coach Sawyer.

Giacomo (52:55)
Go Shackmose.

Sawyer (52:56)
Bye guys.