Ep 263 – The Fitness Myths Holding You Back

In this episode of Vegan Proteins’ Muscles by Brussels Radio, Ben is joined by coaches Sawyer and Giacomo for a roundtable discussion on common beginner fitness mistakes and myths that can hold people back. They break down misconceptions around cardio, nutrition, muscle growth, training intensity, and building sustainable habits.

The coaches discuss why cardio can actually improve performance, why nutrition doesn’t need to be perfect to build muscle, and why effective training comes down to consistency, progressive overload, and proper execution. They also cover myths like high reps being better for “toning,” soreness being required for growth, and machines being inferior to free weights.

The episode highlights the importance of focusing on the fundamentals, learning how to train effectively, and avoiding extreme approaches that distract from what actually drives long-term progress. Whether you’re new to fitness or have been training for years, these lessons can help you build a better approach.

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TRANSCRIPT

Ben (00:00)
Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of Vegan Proteins Muscles by Brussels Radio. My name is Ben and I’m joined by Sawyer and Giacomo today. We didn’t do the normal I’m Ben and then, you know, see who’s gonna jump in. I don’t want Sawyer and Giacomo fighting over the mic here. So I’m just gonna introduce them myself. So it’s a little bit of a a special one today because we have three coaches on the podcast, and this is something that I want to start doing a little bit more frequently. If we can coordinate it, is just get ⁓ a mixture because

Coach Sawyer (00:11)
Mm-hmm.

Ben (00:28)
You know, given the fact that we have five coaches on the team at this time, we can only run through the combinations of pairs so many times. And so I think it’s nice to get three or four and we’re gonna try to get some coaching round tables with all five of us. Of course, there’s a balance where when there’s too many people on the podcast, then it’s hard to, you know, feel like everyone’s getting a ⁓ a voice and you know, there can be kind of issues of people talking over each other, but I think that we’re gonna be able to make it work just fine. And today we’re gonna be talking about

common beginner mistakes. this is something like a lot of podcast ideas that just came to me the other day while I was training, kind of in between sets, like I’ll just get ideas that just pop up into my head. And so this was one of them. but before we get into the topic for today and go over some of these myths so that ⁓ you can avoid them. Whether you’re beginner, intermediate or advanced, I think these things can all apply to us at any point in our in our journey. So with that said, Sawyer, Giacomo, now I’ll let you guys fight over the mic.

I want updates from from both of you, but I’ll let I’ll let you guys decide who’s who’s giving the update first.

Coach Sawyer (01:28)
Go ahead, Giacomo.

Giacomo (01:29)
I won! I knew it. I knew I won I won every single face up as a kid. They’re like staring contest, you lose. It’s a sp it’s a special ⁓ how do I say? Yeah, it’s a skill of mine. So sorry, Sawyer. You broke. What what’s going on, buddy? What what have you been up to, Sawyer?

Coach Sawyer (01:32)
I bowed out.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

you want me to go now? What what’s happening? You just pulled the Uno reverse card? I was waiting for you to talk. Man, that is so confusing. Alright, whatever. I’ll go. I’ll go. So I’m I just moved over to Tirana, Albania, as of exactly a week ago, actually. And ⁓ it’s a really cool city. I am very impressed. didn’t know what to expect.

Ben (01:47)
Ha ha ha.

Giacomo (01:48)
Yeah.

Coach Sawyer (02:11)
coming in and it’s a really really green is a little toasty right now but actually not too too bad. It’s like low 80s right now. So and there’s shade everywhere because there’s just giant trees wherever you go. So I’m I’m really happy. There’s lots of like things to do. Pretty limited vegan options, but they exist. So it’s kind of like a scavenger hunt you could say.

prevents us from eating out all the time. Although so far the our favorite place that we found was a place that had vegan and non vegan options, but they had like half vegan options. And it was a gelato place. And you can order the gelato on a croissant. It was mind bendingly good. I think about it every time I get even anywhere near it. but ⁓

But it’s just a cool city and ⁓ very, very happy to be here and we’re here for another couple months or so. So that’s that’s my update, I guess, the one I’ll go with.

Ben (03:02)
Sawyer, one week of us not working together and you’re already eating croissants and gelato and what’s got what’s going on, man. You’ve fallen off completely. No, I’m kidding, I’m kidding. I’m kidding, I’m kidding. No, that sounds awesome, man. I I think it’s it sounds like it’s definitely a step up from where you were in terms of the options you have available to you and the accessibility to nature and just ⁓ you know, access to

Coach Sawyer (03:06)
my god. ⁓ don’t look at me. Don’t look at me.

Mm-hmm.

Ben (03:24)
Things that are important to you. So I’m glad to hear that you’ve been enjoying the city a little bit more. Is there anything that’s kind of on the list of things that you guys want to do that you haven’t been able to take off quite yet?

Coach Sawyer (03:35)
Yeah, I wanna do I wanna do some like actual hikes. We haven’t done any since Spain. And so and and even bef like even while we were in Spain, it wasn’t like there aren’t any real like real natural areas there. So I’m gonna try to hunt some down here, see if we can’t find like an actual, you know, state park or something to go hike around for a day. I think that’s that’s next on my on my list here.

Ben (03:57)
Cool. Giacomo, what’s new with you?

Giacomo (03:59)
Well, obviously it’s getting hot out here. You can tell by the fans that are going on over there. It’s finally getting nice and I’ve been a little annoyed at myself because I should be out enjoying the sunshine and doing things, but I have been so focused on what we got going on over here because I’ve been rallying up the Vegan Strong plant built team and I must have made like sixty calls last week on top of what I usually do because we’re thinking about ways that we could bring the team closer together and

Get more cool stuff going on. So brainstorming with all the athletes last week and focusing on what we could potentially to do do together next year. And I was that work spilled over into the weekend. But Daisy and Desmond came over and that was kind of fun just hanging out with them for a little bit. I got a Mud Girl run, which I’m not participating in next weekend. I can’t. I shouldn’t. Definitely shouldn’t.

But Desmond is going to be able to because he’s a little boy. He’s six years old. I think he’s participating. I’m not quite sure. It it all kind of just got strung together. So we’re gonna go there next weekend. The following weekend, I’m gonna do my first Spartan race with my client Shireen and her partner John. And I’m the kind of person that can be peer pressured into most things. Yeah. I’m a kid that like your parents were like, please don’t do that. Don’t give in to peer pressure. You’re gonna get yourself into stupid situations.

Coach Sawyer (05:13)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Giacomo (05:21)
But this is a healthy situation, right? It’s not gonna derail me from my bodybuilding or anything like that. Like CrossFit has been destroying this household. That’s what I told our whole team. I’m like, y’all are to blame for this. Dani has gotten hook, line, and sinker, stuck in this thing. And now if I ever want to see my wife again, I’m gonna be a CrossFitter. So and it’s just getting worse. Like last week, I was counting the fingers. I’m like, three days of training with bodybuilding, two days of CrossFit. I’m still a bodybuilder.

Coach Sawyer (05:37)
Ha ha ha.

Giacomo (05:47)
But in all honesty, when I was doing my when I was doing my belt squats, I my legs were so much more mobile and I was so much stronger than I used to be. See what happened with me was I went from bodybuilding to powerlifting back to bodybuilding. And something about like the way my muscles moved, they’re just they feel stiffer than they used to. Whereas back in the day, when I was just focused on hypertrophy and I was coming off of endurance-based boards,

Coach Sawyer (05:47)
Mm-hmm.

Giacomo (06:11)
I could crank out reps like it was nobody’s business. But nowadays they just feel like slower and achier and more tired, like I’m focused on my body composition and I’ve came off of powerlifting and I got work stress and life stress and this and that. And it’s like, okay, so shut up about it, do some crossfit, come home. And guess what? A month later, having some cross training going on has actually helped with my specificity, believe it or not, which is quite cool. But I feel like this is kind of a nice segue into what we’re doing. Well, no, no, no, wait a minute. Did we get to talk about you, Ben? Like what’s going on in your world?

Coach Sawyer (06:39)
We didn’t. Good call.

Ben (06:40)
No, but I don’t no,

Giacomo (06:40)
I can keep going.

Ben (06:41)
but I but I don’t matter. We can just go on to the the podcast episode. No. That wasn’t even sarcasm. I hate talking about myself. But I’ll give a a little update, I suppose. What’s new with me? Well, like Giacomo said, the weather has been warmer, so it’s been nice out. we were able to go kayaking recently, which I don’t think I talked about the podcast, and that was fun. just been going for more walks and runs, going to the beach every now and then.

Coach Sawyer (06:44)
No, we gotta hear it.

Ben (07:07)
And just just being outside, which is very nice because the New England winters are long and I feel like we don’t even, you know, we kind of get a spring, but it feels like it’s just a very long winter that goes right into summer. It’s like, you know, it’s cold, cold, cold, and then suddenly the temperature jumps up 20 or 30 degrees and it’s summer. So it’s here somewhat abruptly, it feels like, but I’m glad for it. It’s been in the eighties and it’ll probably be in the eighties this this whole week, except for the fact that

There’s this weird trend that I definitely remember last year. I don’t know if you do Giacomo, it’s continued this year where it’s like really nice during the week, but then on the weekends it ends up being like rainy and kind of crappy weather. ⁓ and I think everyone in New England loves bonding over weather and how much they hate it. So that’s a a fun topic. But other than that, nothing too much. I went out to Denver for a concert. That was fun, got to travel a little bit, go to Boulder. So that’s my second time out there, my first time being earlier in the year for a ski trip.

⁓ so there was that. And other than that, just been like seeing friends and family more, which has been nice. Going out to eat more frequently than is typical, but I feel like I’ve been able to make pretty good choices with that, which sometimes depending on my goals or the phase that I’m in, I’m a little bit

looser or stricter. And generally my s my MO is still like I’ll kind of get what I want, but just, you know, don’t eat to the point where I’m uncomfortably full. but like yesterday we went out for ice cream and like I ate, you know, I’d say I ate like probably like a third or a half of my ice cream. And like normally I would just finish the whole thing because it tastes good. But I was like, honestly, I’m fine. Like I’m satisfied. I don’t need to eat the whole thing. Cause that’s something I struggle with. Even at home is like if we have food that I’ve bought

I’ll feel like I have to eat it. I don’t want to throw it away. just because I don’t like wasting food. I don’t like the idea of that. but in this case, I was like, you know what, I’m fine. I d you know, no nobody’s being harmed by not eating this ice cream. So I ended up just tossing it and then we came home and it was a weird, weird day. We ended up actually having dinner after that. And ⁓ so that was like a small little win I felt like for myself was like I didn’t have to didn’t feel like the need, I guess, to to eat the whole thing.

⁓ so that’s just a small thing that stood out. But other than that, yeah, I’ve just been ⁓ just been enjoying the warmer weather. Mainly we’ve got the World Cup going on ⁓ now in the States starting this week, and there’s a stadium near Giacomo and I that is hosting some World Cup games. So we’ve had a lot of people kind of coming into town and who will be coming into town for those games, you know, tens of thousands of people. So that’ll be interesting to to see. But that’s pretty much it.

Coach Sawyer (09:34)
Cool.

Giacomo (09:35)
Right

on, I did not know that. Thank you for letting me know. Now I’ll blame the World Cup for all the traffic. Should I go into Boston?

Coach Sawyer (09:38)
Mm-hmm.

Ben (09:41)
There you go. Exactly. but Giacomo, I think what you were getting at towards the the end of what you were saying is ⁓ this myth I had I had written this down that this myth of cardio will kill your gains. That’s kind of one that I feel like a lot of people who are into building muscle ⁓ maybe have heard. And I think like anything with a lot of these myths, there’s like kernels of truth to them, but I think they’ve been taken too far ⁓ oftentimes. At least I can say this for myself. So

Coach Sawyer (09:41)
Mm-hmm.

Ben (10:07)
if you’re coming from an endurance background and you’re getting into strength training, ⁓ and you’re running like, you know, hundred plus miles a week or doing like crazy amounts of physical activity, there is some truth to this, you know, this what would be called interference effect with cardio ⁓ and strength training. But I think the level of physical activity you have to get to is like you have to be probably a competitive athlete in that other sport that you’re playing and really like the time and attention and energy is probably more than what you’re putting into strength training for that really to

To show up. And I would say, like you were saying, Giacomo, sometimes I think that actually cardio ends up getting neglected. Like I remember when I first started getting into ⁓ lifting weights, I would like intentionally try to not do anything after training legs like for the next day or so, like just be like immobile basically. Cause I thought it would be better for for my lower body gains. And again, I think there’s a you know, you probably don’t want to go out and, you know, run fifteen miles after your leg day, but

you know, if you are walking around and just doing your normal activities, you could either pro you could even probably go for like a a quick, easy run, you know, in the day that day of or day after and it’s probably not gonna really impact you. In fact, I found like the day after training lower body, or the you know, those days after getting up, going for some walks, getting some movement and I feel like I get less sore than if I just kinda was sat around all day. So,

That’s one thing. And then also like the aerobic benefits that you get, like not getting winded during your higher rep sets or just your your strength training in general. I know, Sawyer, when we were working together, that that was something that you kind of noted was like the ability to work on your work capacity. Do you want to talk about that a little bit?

Coach Sawyer (11:37)
Yeah, yeah. I think I was I I’m one of these people that just doesn’t like cardio. So it was always it was an easy, you know, kind of thing for me to avoid. but then, you know, the more intensely you do leg training, the the clearer it is when you’re coming up short in that department.

But yeah, so my my leg training I think made it clear that my cardio is not great. And so actually having some dedicated cardio sessions was a really good idea. And I think what really helped me actually do it was just lowering the intensity and the frequency down to an amount that I felt like was like, okay, I could do this kind of thing. And then and then I could turn it up slowly ⁓ as I started to like.

identify as somebody who could do that or just not hate it all the time. Cause I think when, you know, I tried to do cardio in the past, it was always like, I should be able to do like this much intensity and for this long. And when I couldn’t do that, because I was just jumping into the deep end right away, it was kind of frustrating. So a little aside there, but basically working with you and having you be like, you should really do some cardio and and then having like a set schedule for it.

And ha knowing I was gonna have to like check in about that, was an overall really good thing. And I could tell that ⁓ it it improved my not only just my quality of life, but like my leg training specifically, got better as well.

Ben (12:59)
Giacomo, do you have any experiences with this?

Giacomo (13:00)
Yeah, I wanted to start off by suggesting that you don’t try to put 50 pounds on your bench in 50 days, like the beginner myth that we had going on. And if you continue to repeat a program like that to gain 150 pounds on your bench in 150 days, you might wind up with a torn AC joint. So don’t do that. Fortunately, we’re a lot smarter these days than we used to be, but there’s still plenty of pervasive stuff and myths that are out there and things that

Coach Sawyer (13:10)
Mm.

Mm.

Giacomo (13:28)
We are easily influenced by, especially with social media culture. And I think of our earlier roots when we were coaching and how I saw the bodybuilding culture, shame cardio, or fear prescribing cardio. And then I saw people be inf easily influenced by that. And to a degree it affected us as well. But we wisened up as fast as was possible. And over time you do realize that it’s not just about being a well-rounded athlete, it’s about

There’s only there’s a limit to the amount of specificity that you can put into play for your sport. And there is an end game there. You it makes like even for a power lift, for example, like there’s evidence backing the fact that like your one to three rep ranges will be more powerful bec if you have enough, not just the minimum, but if you have a little more than the minimum when it comes to getting cardio in.

Cause even c power forget. I mean, back then parallels were like, no, no, no cardio at all. And bodybuilders were like very sparingly in certain types of cardio. These days, you have to stick with what works, what’s tried and true. There’s a certain amount of cardio that it makes sense to get in in a prescriptive manner at certain zones for your cardiovascular health, right? Because one day you won’t be competing and you want a healthy ticker after the fact. But two, have being more cardiovascularly fit.

helps you with hypertrophy, helps you with your strength, helps you with your power. So I think it just makes sense to not just ignore it, to actually be prescriptive with cardio, even if you are lazy about it, not in the mood to do it, or you’re trying to bucket out your time more responsibly and being like, well, order priorities, bodybuilding is my priority, not gonna do my cardio, like that’s a mistake. You want to my point early in this conversation, I my lifts went up.

And I did them faster after being more cardiovascular fit from doing CrossFit for just a month. And I was shell sh I didn’t believe it. Fourteen years in a row of lifting, lifting lifting for the past 30 years on and off. I did not believe that would happen. And I was shocked a couple of days ago when that happened. I was like, Well, this is this is confirmation here. It makes sense. The car the cardio is actually helping.

Ben (15:30)
Something that you touched on earlier in that ⁓ conversation. Sawyer, did you have something to say there to follow up on?

Coach Sawyer (15:31)
Mm.

yeah. I was just gonna say, like it’s it’s interesting because, you know, we all wanna be specialists or at least we tell ourselves that because it’s like we care mostly about one or two different aspects of, you know, bodybuilding or whatever. And ⁓ but but that can lead us to ignore certain bottlenecks. So I think it’s really interesting that you had a that experience of like, wow, cardio was actually holding me back with bodybuilding training.

because you had advanced in all these other ways, but the cardio was probably just kind of holding you back in some ways. And so now that and then you started to work on it and then everything got better because it was like the Achilles heel maybe. that’s pretty interesting. so yeah, thanks for sharing that that experience.

Ben (16:16)
That’s interesting that you mentioned that, Sawyer, of like cardio being the limiting factor, like the rate limiter. I think that that is that’s something, and this will segue into ⁓ another myth. I think the way that people think about nutrition when it comes to gaining muscle, I think the best way to think about it is that nutrition is permissive to building muscle or muscle growth. like, you know, if you’re doing all the correct things in the gym, nutrition can hold you back.

But up to a certain point, having, you know, quote unquote perfect nutrition isn’t going to be better than, you know, 80 or 90%, assuming those big principles in place. So that that really most of the time comes down to are you eating calories that are appropriate for your goal? Meaning, you know, are you in a deficit? Are you in a, you know, are you in a surplus maintenance, whatever it is? Are you getting your protein in? You know, are you getting your fruits and vegetables in? Do you have kind of minimums for carbs and fats that make sense? Once you’re ticking all those boss it boxes.

⁓ you don’t need to hyper fixate or hyper focus on nutrition to the extent that I think people often do. ⁓ one of these myths that I have written down here that you’ll often hear, ⁓ I think a lot of bodybuilders have said this is like it’s 80% diet and it’s 20% training. and I think that when it comes to fat loss, perhaps this maybe holds more weight to it ⁓ because nutrition is gonna drive more of a deficit than physical activity if you just think about it logically, like.

the amount of calories that it takes to or the amount of the expenditure that it takes to burn a certain number of calories that you eat. It’s kind of crazy. It’s like, you know, you eat an Oreo and the, you know, then you’re you’re gonna it takes a lot of physical activity to to burn off that one Oreo. So it just makes more sense to create that deficit through ⁓ through your diet most of the time. But I think once you have those those big rocks in place, again, like I think more attention should be put on

your training on maybe your cardio, like like Giacomo was saying, your physical activity, leaning more into these things that are going to move the needle. So if you’ve been focusing so much on your diet, and this is something that I specifically fell into, I remember, like I spent the first probably couple years of fitness being like really focused. And you know, it was fun for me at the time, like learning recipes, learning things that I enjoyed and kind of creating a diet that was sustainable. But I think I was neglecting

learning about some of the principles in the gym, mainly because I think I felt overwhelmed with how ⁓ you know complex it was. And I think that’s a reason that having a coach can be helpful because they can kind of distill down for you, you know, what is a reasonable program. And maybe we can get into some kind of some programming myths here. But really like having a program that is set up for your goals and set up for your experience level.

and progressing that, that is going to make a huge difference. And as long as your nutrition is good enough, again, it doesn’t have to be like perfect because you know what is perfect in the context of nutrition doesn’t exist. ⁓ you’re gonna be able to see a lot of progress. So, do you wanna touch on maybe some of these like common training myths that people fall into, Sawyer? Or you had you had a thought there?

Coach Sawyer (19:01)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

I was yeah, I was gonna follow up on that because I think, yeah, it’s it is very important. Like you were saying, there’s a lot of kernels of truth. Like when it comes specifically to fat loss, like nutrition is a big portion of that. You can you could totally ruin your deficit that you created throughout the week by having a crazy weekend. You can do all kinds of stuff like that.

But I think people often underestimate how much building muscle really does affect how they look. And so if they think I want to look really fit, and then they think automatically, that means getting really lean without spending time building some muscle first, that’s another situation where it can be a little bit problematic. So that, you know, they they might just look like a smaller version of themselves instead of like as toned as they want to be, you know, as muscular as they want to look.

Even even the people that don’t want to look all that muscular probably have a significant amount of muscle to to try to build before getting there. So I think it’s important to talk to somebody with maybe some more experience in like crafting physiques, even if you’re not like trying to look exactly like that person. Cause I get that like people like us tend to just take everything to the more extreme and people aren’t necessarily like, ⁓ that’s what I want to look like.

⁓ but at the same time, like we understand to get to a certain level, it is gonna lend itself to like understanding the the anatomy and the the biology of what’s happening there. And so if you’re confused about like what look you’re trying to create and how to do it.

just basically know that it’s gonna take probably more training than you think. And then and then maybe some fat loss as well. And and for the most part, training is gonna be need to be a part of that. Like a a certain amount of of knowledge and like application of training is gonna take a big portion of that. but to transition into the next point, you were saying like some of these training myths.

And I think one that I wrote down, or maybe I think I wrote it down, but it just popped into my head. So I wanna I wanna bring it up and see if you guys have heard this one before. I had heard from my dad, I think, growing up, where I don’t know if he really believed it or if he was just like reciting what he had heard, but he had heard like high reps for toning and and like low reps for mass or something like that. And he had the had the same thing that he had heard for

Barbells versus dumbbells or something like that. Like barbells build mass and dumbbells like sculpt the muscle or something like that. So I think, you know, in tandem with that last myth, I think it’s important to talk about like the actual anatomy, like what is the physiology of like muscle building, fat loss? Is there a way to sculpt muscles? I think that would be a cool road to go down. I don’t know, what do you guys think?

Ben (21:37)
Yeah, I mean I guess just just so people have a a basic, you know, understanding here, ⁓ I think some of maybe the I don’t even know where these myths got started. I feel like it was kind of some of the OG bodybuilders who would who would say things like this. but I think a lot of it was like when they were preparing for a contest, you don’t have as much energy, so you probably just don’t feel like lifting as heavy, and so you’re just gonna lift a little bit lighter and like go and get a pump, especially if you’re you know, if you’re taking

Coach Sawyer (22:02)
Yeah.

Ben (22:04)
If you’re taking ⁓ we’ll just say like exogenous substances, you probably don’t need to ⁓ maybe put as much of a an well, to a certain extent, I think maybe, you know what what what was the the grain of truth here was as they were gett getting ready for a contest, you don’t have as much energy, you don’t feel like as lifting heavy. So they just happened to lift lighter and they were also eating less. So then they lost body fat and like they’re attributing the fact that they like

Coach Sawyer (22:11)
Turn is hard.

Ben (22:29)
got leaner and they’re sculpting their physique to the higher reps, whereas really that was just like a byproduct of, you know, the the diet and maybe just having less energy, not wanting to lift as heavy. but really it’s like your muscles are are kind of, I don’t know, dumb to a certain extent. Like they don’t know, you know, you don’t need to confuse them into growth. You don’t need to constantly be switching things up. Like as long as you’re training them close to muscular fatigue slash failure within a couple reps, you know, within two or three reps or or less.

you’re going to be producing enough stress on that muscle to cause it to you know need to to adapt to that and and therefore grow and hypertrophy. So there’s no necessarily evidence like you know the the in the literature would indicate that sets anywhere between probably four reps all the way up to like 30 plus in some instances are going to build pretty similar amounts of muscle as long as they’re to a sufficient intensity. Now practically I think like a good

Coach Sawyer (23:20)
Mm-hmm.

Ben (23:25)
rule of thumb is probably more more like that eight to fifteen rep range I find a lot of my programming ends up sitting in just because it’s not so heavy that, you know, there’s a lot of bracing and skill demands and it’s not so light that people are taking forever or, you know, they’re stopping because the you know their muscles are burning, which is another myth I think, is that you have to like feel the burn in your, in your muscles, in order or like just that the burn enough is going to be enough to produce muscle growth. But

Coach Sawyer (23:31)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Ben (23:49)
You really need to, you know, have those hard reps where your reps are slowing down. That’s kind of how you know you’re close to to failure is your reps are slowing down without you trying to intentionally slow them down. It’s just like, hey, I’m doing a bicep curl and the first couple of reps are like this, and as I’m struggling against it, it’s getting harder and it’s getting slower. Like that’s how you know that you’re, you know, fatiguing them sufficiently. Giacomo, do you have any kind of thoughts here? Do you want to jump in?

Coach Sawyer (23:49)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Giacomo (24:10)
I think one of the easiest things and probably arguably the most low hanging fruit here is the idea that you need to use more resistance to gain muscle. And if you’re not increasing the load that you’re using, then you’re not well, we call it engaging progressive overload, but you may not even be familiar with that term if you’re newer to lifting. If you’re not lifting more weight consistently and doing more reps, you’re not getting stronger. And there are so many other variables that come into play when you are

when you are moving that load. There is getting better at moving the load, producing more force under the load, producing ⁓ being able to control the load better, being able to become more aware of what an accurate range of motion is, so that you’re only you’re not wasting gaining momentum before and after the range of motion. You’re training the muscle till exhaustion within the range of motion. There is pr choosing the right movement patterns. There is choosing the right moving patterns for your body. There is

There are so many different variables that come into play as that that will help you get stronger. And honestly, when you get stuck in that I need to add more weight kind of mentality, then you risk eventually engaging in what we refer to as mechanical breakdown, where physics no longer apply and you’re just moving the load. It doesn’t matter how to dumb it down, shitty your form is, you’re just gonna need to lift more weight or you’re failing.

On the flip side of it the coin, you tend to have you also have lifters that are hyper obsessed, whether it’s the bros that are like super science-y, or maybe a newer lifter that is afraid they’re gonna hurt themselves or they want to make sure that they perfect the movement before they get stronger. And so you can overcorrect too. So there’s the like, I wanna be really safe and I’m afraid to push because I need to learn what I’m doing.

And or like I need to understand mechanically how this works and tinker things around because I’m being very scientific about it. And then the old the alternative where it’s like, I’m a workhorse, I’m gonna grunt, I’m gonna work harder, and if I’m not lifting more, then I’m failing. And then PS, well, you’re gonna fail. And then on the other side, if you play it so safe or you’re just so fixated on movement, you’re not gonna push hard enough. So the answer, like most things, is usually somewhere in the middle.

Coach Sawyer (26:23)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think to add to that, I think, yeah, it’s a lot of what I do ⁓ as a coach is try to see, at least get people to send some form videos so that I can see which which category they are likely to be falling into on more of their sets.

⁓ and so that you can kind of keep them away from the edges, which which will both be unproductive. and and ⁓ just to provide the listener with a little bit more background too, is that I think one of the things I was and and you guys did a great job of explaining like, okay, this is like kind of the parameters you want to keep. And and to even explain like physiologically what’s happening.

Because I think a lot of confusion gets happens when when like for instance I’ve heard like Pilates instructors or like people OG bodybuilder type people say you can like change the shape of a muscle based on how you train it. So they’ll say like, Pilates, we get long and lean muscles. And you know, ⁓ bodybuilders will say, Yeah, get, you know, higher reps for more definition, more cuts in the muscle, more density, whatever. And that just fundamentally like

Ben how you were just starting to say like muscles are dumb. It doesn’t really, not only do they do they need just like a certain kind of stimulus stimulus, it doesn’t need to be like exactly a certain type or like in a certain like a certain rep or something like that. but also they are just either growing, maintaining, or getting smaller. There’s no like shaping that can really be done.

⁓ because just anatomically, you’re born with kind of the muscle fibers you have, and yes, you can in some cases, like whatever. Well, whatever. I’m not gonna get into that. But the point is the point is that you can’t really change the shape of your muscles other than growing them or shrinking them. and so to try to do that by emulating somebody’s training routine, you’re gonna end up kind of being pretty disappointed. what it really comes down to is

what is the ratio and and what is the amount of muscle tissue that you have compared to the amount of fat mass that you have and and how do you like that balance, right? Because you might find that you’re you’re training a certain way and you like how you look, but it’s really important that you understand like what like what is my body composition right now? What is the amalgamation of muscle tissue to fat mass that I have and do I want to keep this? Do I want to change that ratio? ⁓

Because I think people attribute it to the training. but it’s it’s simple. It’s just the resistance is gonna build muscle, especially when you do enough of it and intensely enough. And if you are controlling for calories and and kind of have a knowledge of self in like terms of like this is my maintenance. If I eat more than this, I’m gonna gain fat mass. If I eat less than this, I’m gonna lose fat mass. When you have an understanding of those things, you have a much better handle on what you can make your body look like.

And it doesn’t really have much to do with the type of training outside of what you guys just said, which is like, are you doing effective resistance training to build muscle? Other than that, you’re not changing the shape of it based on like the movements you’re doing of the rep ranges you’re in and things like that.

Ben (29:21)
Yeah, that that’s a great point. Like the the knowledge that everybody is going to have I mean, we all have the same muscles, but they’re gonna look different based on of our bone structure, the way we’re put together. ⁓ and there’s really no way, like you said, to change the shape other than to to grow them or to shrink them. There’s some small research about you can maybe like bias a certain kind like

Coach Sawyer (29:33)
Mm-hmm.

Ben (29:43)
you can grow a muscle more towards the origin or the insertion. D we call that distal or proximal, but that’s getting a little bit too into the weeds, I think. and like you said, ⁓ Sawyer, you know, the the thing to focus on is really, you know, what proportion of, you know, muscle mass to to body fat percentage am I kind of going for here. ⁓ and along those lines, I think another I wouldn’t say this is a myth because I think there’s some again, there’s some validity to this, but

The idea that you have to, you know, if you are carrying some body fat and eventually you’d like to be in a leaner spot, that you have to start with a diet, you have to cut first and then go into a build. I think that oftentimes just focusing on the habits and the kind of the the what’s the word that I’m looking for? Maybe the the areas of opportunity that are low-hanging fruit. The low-hanging fruit, ⁓ looking for those areas f starting there is going to already see you progressing.

without necessarily changing the, you know, the the weight that you’re at right now. So just being at maintenance and focusing on, okay, let me increase my protein intake if it’s been maybe lower than what would be recommended. Let me focus on improving my sleep. Let me focus on being really consistent with my training and progressing my training. doing all of these things is going to give you a body recomposition effect to the point where you might not even necessarily need to go into an intentional

deficit to start. I think oftentimes the benefits of doing that is one, it creates buy-in because people are seeing results and they’re seeing that their body is changing. So if somebody needs a little bit of that buy-in, then okay, I think that that lends more validity to the cut first and then and then build from there. But I think the issue, and we see this a lot, I think, especially with maybe ⁓ smaller, you know, females or women who come to us and they’ve been trying to eat low amounts of calories for long amounts of time. they’re chronically underfueled and over dieted, like

telling them that they need to continue like cutting or dieting to get to a point where they’re satisfied with the amount of leanness that they have and then go into a build, I think that that’s that’s kind of backwards. I think oftentimes a spot, you know, that makes sense actually is to try to get them to slowly increase their calories over time, work on a lot of these habits that aren’t related to ⁓ you know, their scale weight and more so again, some of those other those other variables that are gonna have a positive impact on their body composition. And then when they’re in a good spot

To diet, you know, their calories have been built up higher, you know, their stress has been managed better. They have more systems and routines that are going to allow for a successful fat loss phase. Cause sometimes throwing somebody right into the deep end with a fat loss phase and asking them to do all these things, start tracking their macros, etc., that can be really difficult for them to actually adhere to that and to be successful with that. And then if they’re having trouble with adherence, they’re hurting their confidence, they feel like they can’t do this. So I think it for the right person, it can work, but I think oftentimes just

Getting them to, hey, let’s just focus on changing a couple things at first before we go into this inherently stressful state of being in a deficit, you know, on our bodies. I think that that’s something where I know for myself when I started I wish I had kind of just like done a maintenance diet and and focused on, you know, a lot of these habits as opposed to immediately trying to go into ⁓ a deficit. But I’d love to know kind of your guys’ experience with this.

Giacomo (32:48)
Well, I don’t I didn’t do anything as far as dieting or becoming aware of how much I was eating and all that because I started when I was started lifting when I was a teenager, it was just a matter of becoming active and it was playing it’s it was to make the tennis team. So I don’t have any experience with that in the beginning that I but as far as

thinking about different clients, I think it’s next to near impossible to have a client buy in if you don’t start them leaning out because that’s what they they you gotta you gotta dangle a carrot, you gotta give a dog a bone. Sorry, that’s not very vegan of me. Please don’t shame me. But believe that you need to give a little something to get a whole lot. So you give somebody what they want and that’s the reward. And then eventually down the line their habits and routine are reinforced and they get what they need. But

Coach Sawyer (33:22)
Mm-hmm.

Giacomo (33:34)
To you Ben’s point, it can be a little tricky because some of those habits and routine that need to be in routine while you’re in a c when you’re in calorie while you’re in calorie reduction mode, it’s hard to get that person out of calorie reduction mode after the fact. And it’s hard to get them to shelf those tools and be like, well, yeah, ⁓ it you’re you become this this hamster to hamster wheel and you become and you can’t stop. It’s like, okay, well now I gotta track to do this. Or now I have to

Pay attention to my calories to do this or whatever. It’s really hard to get people to let go of that stuff. And then they see it as like a reward based system because they’re rewarded for their efforts when they’re dieting down. I wish that it were different, but it’s kind of hard to get a client to acquiesce and buy into the process of body composition and focusing on selling habits and making them.

Coach Sawyer (34:11)
Yeah.

Giacomo (34:22)
routine and being consistent is not exactly sexy. It doesn’t get people hyped up, unfortunately. I would love to hear if you have a have either of you had a client who has n wanted that, that you’ve been able to steer away from that and have them work on something else for the first twelve weeks and then have them down the line get leaner? Have you can you think of a scenario like that? I’m curious.

Coach Sawyer (34:42)
Yeah, I mean I I think I’ve worked with people that have more or less fear around going to maintenance even, but the way I frame it to them is like, hey, this is where you’re gonna live most of your life, like once you’ve reached a certain point that you wanna get to. And if I don’t properly teach you how to do this, and and if you don’t feel safe at maintenance.

Ben (34:43)
Yeah.

Coach Sawyer (35:04)
⁓ then it’s you’re going to stay in a deficit indefinitely and that is just not gonna be a healthy thing. So it it’s something that I sometimes do need to like keep repeating. but but eventually I think it does sink in for most people that especially once they extre you know ex start experiencing more and more diet fatigue and I keep pointing to it and saying, hey, that’s why I keep saying we need to go go to maintenance calories. But not everybody’s as afraid of it as as some people are. You know, I think people with a history of

having more body fat than they would like to for a lot of their lives are a little bit more afraid of higher calories sometimes. But again, that’s why we just have to be encouraging and educational. And I think eventually most people are able to get there because they can see like, yeah, maybe I can’t do this forever. ⁓ once once they have some diet fatigue things creep in. But go ahead, Ben, I think you’re gonna say something.

Ben (35:50)
I think Giacomo to answer your question, I have found that I’ve had some clients who have come to me probably wanting to pursue fat loss more aggressively than I would like to to see or that I think that they’re gonna be able to be successful with. And sometimes we go the route of, okay, let’s let’s you know, let’s explore that and see how it goes. And sometimes it’s successful and sometimes it’s not. and we, you know, we kind of give them the spiel of here’s what you can expect. Do you still want to go ahead with this?

Giacomo (36:05)
Mm-hmm.

Ben (36:16)
I’ll help you do it in the best way that we can. and other times I think they, you know, they they’ve kind of acquiesced and said, you know what, I’m willing to trust your guidance and your expertise and let’s, you know, let’s let’s try it your way. And for those people, if I can get three to six months of buy-in with them of, hey, let’s just be at maintenance and focus on really, especially for people who haven’t really, I think, put the time, energy, and attention into really specific hypertrophy training. and maybe, you know, their their nutrition has some areas that can be improved as well. Again, you know, increasing their protein.

now what does that actually mean? What what is an evidence-based amount of protein? I’ll sneak in another one of these myths here. And I think one of those is that you need to eat ⁓ a gram per pound of body weight and protein. Hey, that’s a heuristic. Heuristics can be useful. now, if somebody is very overweight, that’s not gonna apply. ⁓ and I so I lot oftentimes I think that what I’ve started saying to people is whatever your ideal body weight is.

Shoot for three quarters of that. So, you know, if your ideal body weight is 120 pounds, shoot for 90 grams of protein. I think that tends to work well for a lot of people. because the evidence would pretty much suggest 0.7 to 1 grams per pound of body weight is gonna be where you max out. And really, it’s hard to say with certainty that point that one is necessarily even better than 0.7. again, just based off the research that we have. So I think for people who are way under that, you don’t have to get there immediately. But

Again, creeping that up over time towards that, let’s say, optimal amount. And again, focusing on things like sleep, stress management, and you know, really focusing on their training, getting them to send me form feedback videos and seeing how they’re executing things and giving them other areas to focus on besides just the the scale and the the mirror, especially if they’re checking, you know, if they’re used to like really focusing on their physique a lot. I might give them some kind of other things to focus on. So they’re not so tuned into that and say, Hey, let’s put away, you know, let’s put away the

The progress photos, let’s put away the scale for you know three to six months. And then we take photos and they’re like, my God, like I can see such a big difference. I’m the same weight here in these two different things, but I’ve you know, I can see the difference now. I’ve got the buy-in. So for the folks who I think have a little bit more trust from the beginning in the process and are able to just say, you know what, I can be consistent with this. they’ll notice things in the first, I would say, couple months before we’ve maybe taken those before and after photos.

Where maybe their clothes are fitting a little bit better. So that’s kind of some immediate feedback that I think can get them some buy-in, like, you know, my pants are fitting a little bit looser, whatever it is. So I think that there are other things that you can focus on ⁓ that are going to be able to again create that that buy-in. and I would say that usually it ends up being a case of being keeping them at maintenance. and then when they’re ready to, or maybe not even when they’re ready, but like when it’s in a in a spot where

I feel okay, it’s now it’s appropriate to go into a fat loss phase or actually, you what, let’s go into a build from here because we’ve had a little bit of a recompositioning effect. That’s happened before. But I totally, you know, I under I I get what you’re saying, Giacomo. I think it’s true that for most people, they need that kind of immediate, whether that’s the scale or the the visual changes in those eight to twelve weeks ⁓ to get some buy-in. But I think again, this is my kind of PSA to people that hey, you know, if you’re actually, if you’re able to

Have the patience to stick with those habits and be consistent without getting that immediate feedback or buy-in in some cases, I’m not gonna say in all cases, that’s probably gonna lead to a better result for you at the end of the day if you’re not in a good spot to start out just jumping straight into a diet. which I think for some people maybe they’re not, depending on their, you know, maybe their life is really stressful. They’re changing jobs, they’re changing homes, something like that might not be the time. ⁓ hey, maybe it is, maybe you can pull it off, but I think just just, you know.

putting that out there that you don’t always have to start with a a deficit as your as your default if you’re maybe not in the in the ⁓ in the space to to do so. yeah, do you guys have any any thoughts on that?

Coach Sawyer (40:00)
Yeah. I was just

gonna tack on to that. Like I I love everything you just said, but also I think kind of one one thing I was thinking about when you’re saying that is like kind of how it how it connects to like nutrition is permissive of progress. Like doing good enough is gonna be pretty good at first, like especially if you’ve never done these things before, you’re gonna see change pretty much even doing some some things wrong with nutrition.

⁓ but I really, really wish people would take training more seriously, or at least at least learning about training more seriously, because it’s really hard for me to get form videos from people for whatever reason. And I maybe I’m not doing a good enough job explaining the importance of like getting really good at training. Like training is a skill, and if you can get really good at training, you can do

Giacomo (40:29)
Hmm.

Coach Sawyer (40:48)
this much training and get that much benefit. You know what I mean? It’s like it is a very palpable thing. And and I think it’s so like again, with the whole people don’t understand how much muscle they’re gonna need to build to look the way they want and feel the way they want and be as healthy as they want. I just wish people would like get a little bit more into that muscle side of things this as opposed to focusing so much on the fat loss. Because I know that that’s

the most immediate, like, ⁓ look at this guy who did a cut. Like that looks crazy. And but, you know, meanwhile they’re not thinking about the, you know, two years of training he had done leading leading up to that or she had done leading up to that and then got cut. so yeah, I just I just think we need to like it can’t be s overstated like how important good training is and and then all the things that come with it, right? Good recovery, good sleep, you know, hydration, all that stuff.

So hopefully people when they hear this podcast are like, yeah, I should probably look into training a little bit more. And like it’s not just about like not hurting yourself, I think is something that people should understand about form. It’s it’s also about really trying to bias certain tissues that you want to grow and not letting other ones take over and like not know when that happens because you might start noticing your training, especially as you start going heavier, might become less effective. if you’re not

kind of aware of like what you’re specifically trying to target and if you’re able to get to that intensity threshold we’re talking about, like the newbie gains will kind of run out if you don’t ⁓ I mean they’re gonna run out no matter what. Spoiler alert. But but you’ll stop making progress plus a certain point if your knowledge doesn’t also keep up with your body’s adaptations, if that makes sense. So all right, I’m gonna leave it there. But yeah.

Giacomo (42:24)
Or if Sawyer doesn’t come

to your gym and spot you and tell you to arch your shoulder some more and then you wind up doing four more reps. So what I’m saying is you need a coach Sawyer or a coach Ben in your corner and you’d be surprised how much more you could do.

Coach Sawyer (42:32)
Yeah, right.

⁓ that’s that’s nice of you to say. ⁓ but yeah, no, I just I wish people would would take us up on that offer to like look at their form more often. Cause even if they’re doing something like that looks right, I’ll we we’ll often often follow up and say, How did it feel? You know, where wha how are you feeling the day after? Like, are you able to get the kind of stimulus you need to grow is basically what we’re trying to figure out. And ⁓ so it’s just

Giacomo (42:43)
Mm-hmm.

Coach Sawyer (43:01)
There’s a lot a lot more to it than just like making like copying the movements of of the model that’s doing the exercises. So just even if you don’t think there’s any room for improvement in something, just film your sets and send them to people because there’s there’s a lot of detail that goes into training.

Giacomo (43:17)
Yeah, it’s even just for you personally. If you have a hang up about sending it to someone else when you’re working with them, for example, if it’s like an insecurity thing or whatever, watch them yourself. You’d be surprised how much more you could pick up on what you’re doing. You don’t have I mean, whatever. Sometimes it’s that. I know when I first started sending mess I felt like an imposter because ⁓ I was working with a coach who was also in the fitness fe sphere. I’m like, what if they judge me? What if someone finds out that my form is bad, blah blah blah blah, and I’m a coach, I should know better, and all this and I all these kind of weird insecurities I’m showing

Coach Sawyer (43:27)
Mm-hmm. True.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Giacomo (43:45)
showing them to my other coach and whatever. What and like, but then eventually nowadays I send the form checks that I send are the very last reps of my very last set. The hardest ones. You ever get usually when get a form check, I used to in the beginning I used to do them where I would be my warm-up sets. I’d be like, I’m gonna show everything right. I can’t be whatever. And but it’s like, no, you want to see the absolute hardest reps of the last set. And those are the ones that are gonna make a difference. But I will tell you what

Coach Sawyer (43:56)
Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Giacomo (44:11)
I watched it myself. It’s just as much for my coach as it is for me. My coach is the one who’s gonna see things I can’t because I’m subjective. It’s me. It doesn’t matter how much you know, you’re gonna be subjective if you’re self-coaching to a degree. That’s why you have someone else in it with you. The most capable coaches in the world have coaches for that reason, because they want someone not just in it with them, they want someone to be able to get them away from their own bias. We’re humans, we have bias. But the other thing, again, film yourself and then watch it yourself. And you’d be

Coach Sawyer (44:19)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Giacomo (44:39)
Cause you how are you gonna pay attention to yourself in the mirror while you’re lifting? One, two, what’s your form gonna be like if you’re looking in the mirror instead of lifting? So and you’re focused on the movement, you’re not focused on assessing your form. So film yourself. It’s it’s it’s one thing when you have someone in the gym with you and they can cue you and they can stop you and they can like move you and you know, what’s your permission, touch and whatever, but like you still can’t see what you’re doing. Proprioceptively yeah, it’s cool, but there’s still inherent value in filming yourself. Film yourself and watch it, even if you don’t have a have a coach here, like it makes a

Coach Sawyer (44:45)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Giacomo (45:05)
Huge difference. You’d be surprised what you could pick up on.

Coach Sawyer (45:08)
Mm-hmm.

Ben (45:08)
Abs absolutely. And I think that that speaks to why we we ask people to film. You mentioned the intensity, so we can kind of check are they meeting those those thresholds of being close enough? And I again this is you don’t have to train to the the point where you know you’re doing the bench press and you get stuck because you can’t get another one. Like that that’s a myth. You don’t have to train to absolute failure. You just need to be close enough to that. And we can tell, you know, that’s you can probably tell yourself just looking at your rep speed. Hey, is my first rep moving the same as my

My last rep, okay, I was probably wasn’t close enough to to failure there. and like Sawyer said, you don’t like you know, when you think about ⁓ training as a whole, you don’t need to be in the gym six days a week. ⁓ and you don’t need to be there for three hours and doing, you know, all the sets in the world. ⁓ you just need to be doing enough in order to produce the the adaptations that you want. and Giacomo’s kind of talking about this balance earlier, like you don’t need to be adding

reps or weight every single time that you’re in the gym for you to be able to ⁓ grow muscle. Again, you just kind of need to get that sufficient intensity. and over time the reps and the weight will kind of naturally come because that same, you know, 60 pounds for 10 that you did on bicep curls three months ago should be a lot easier now than it was then. And if it’s not, then you’re probably you know, you’re either under recovered or overrecovered. And you can kind of figure that out based on the context of, you know, the rest of your program.

⁓ but you don’t need to be, you know, getting anxious about like progressing every single week. People can again get get this anxiety about not being able to progress or feeling like, hey, if I didn’t, you know, beat my 60 for 10 this week, I have I failed. I haven’t, you know, grown muscle, even if it was a really hard set. and then on the other side, you don’t need to have perfect form. That that’s a myth as well. What what there’s no such thing as perfect form. There’s form that is good enough and accomplishes the goals that we have set out. And

Coach Sawyer (46:41)
Mm-hmm.

Ben (46:53)
There are nuances too. Again, we talked about anatomy earlier. Like everybody is built a little bit differently. Someone’s squat is not going to be the same as somebody else’s squat. So there’s there’s a lot of things that that go into this. And then while we’re on the topic of training, yeah, two more myths that I had that aren’t necessarily related, but one is the fact that you need to be sore all the time in order for it to feel like you know you’ve gotten a good workout. If you’re doing something new and novel or you’re doing a lot of training, you’re probably gonna be sore.

Coach Sawyer (47:14)
Mm-hmm.

Ben (47:18)
but like you can go and run for the first time in three months and you’re gonna get sore. Does that mean like it was the best thing that you could have done for muscle growth? No, not necessarily. however, if you’re doing an exercise and then the next day you figure out that you’re sore in the area that you were trying to target with that exercise, okay, that could be actually a pretty decent indicator that you were targeting the muscles that you wanted to target. So again, as we’ve been saying, hints of truth. And then the other one that I have written down here is something that I definitely believed at the start, and that is

Coach Sawyer (47:33)
Mm-hmm.

Ben (47:45)
that ⁓ I think people in general might have this perception that machines are not as good as free weights, you know, as as dumbbells or barbells. But something like a a Smith machine can be the the right tool for the job given the context and the right person.

Coach Sawyer (47:59)
Yeah.

Ben (48:00)
And vice versa, a barbell might be a better tool for some people in certain contexts as well. It’s you know, there’s not one that’s better than the other. And I think ⁓ a lot of people who maybe started on barbells have a certain supremacist mindset around like, these are the way, this is the way that everybody has to do it. But honestly, I think the barrier to entry for a lot of people is so much higher with free weights. They’re intimidated, they’re again, they’re scared of hurting themselves, they they’re afraid they’re not gonna do it right. So for those people who are really new to the gym,

Get a Planet Fitness membership, go and try some of the selectorized machines and like push yourself a little bit and see how that goes. Like that is gonna c and create a lot of confidence of like, I can get into the gym, I can weightlift, I don’t need to know exactly what I’m doing, but I can work on it. Again, you can send form videos if you’re working with a coach, and that can really build somebody’s confidence is just getting in there, using some machines, feeling like they’re, you know, they’re not gonna have this weight crushing them or something like that, not have that fear. ⁓ I think that’s big for people.

Coach Sawyer (48:55)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I’ll I’ll ⁓ put some points on that. I I think for the for the last one first, like I really do if a machine I really like a machine, I’m going to that one every time. Like if it’s r well built and I really like the resistance curve and like all that stuff, I’ll I’ll use that over anything else. And then I’m pretty much gonna use like cables and dumbbells for like to plug any holes that machines don’t fill. So I personally really like a good machine because it really takes a lot of the

like stabilization out of it for you know, like I don’t have to do as much thinking in terms of like I like to call it like a grip it and rip it exercise. If it’s really set up to be like, wow, this machine just like feels great. I like the resistance curve. I get a really good stretch, whatever. I’m gonna use that like nine times out of ten. And then for anything else that I can’t do with a machine that’s like that I really like, I’ll just, you know, do dumbbells or I’ll do cables. So

And and that includes Smith Machine. I really like the Smith Machine. So yeah, I don’t think people should shun machines in favor of free weights, not only because the barrier of entry, but also just like the intensity you can bring to a set and not have to worry about am I gonna drop this on my face if I if I fail this rep or whatever. Like there’s a lot of benefits of using machines. ⁓ I did have a comment about your first what was the other myth you said? soreness, that’s right. Okay. So

Ben (50:10)
Soreness.

Coach Sawyer (50:13)
What I often talk about with clients is that soreness like isn’t definitely isn’t necessary for muscle growth, but it can be a helpful indicator of recovery status. And so, you know, like you were saying, like, yeah, when you first do something, you’re probably gonna be pretty sore. If you’re not, that’s interesting. I have seen some rare cases where people who are like endurance athletes don’t get as sore or like really it’s really hard to make them sore. And that’s cool.

But you know, for most people, if they’re pushing something hard, they’re gonna get sore at least a day or two after. And that’s a pretty good sign that they push something, you know, pretty hard, like with enough stimulus to grow. And so that’s kind of like a I would say like a mid medium term like indicator that like, okay, like obviously the session itself, you could probably tell or or should get good at telling if if you pushed a muscle hard. Rep speed is a really good way to do that.

Midterm, I think soreness can be really helpful for like I did enough, but I’m not sore for like two weeks because that would be too much. You’d be probably destroying some something and it’s just having to do extra recovery at that point. ⁓ you can stimulate muscle with a lot less than you know you’d have to do to get sore for two weeks straight. and and also it’s a good indicator of like, should I train this muscle again? Because if you’re still sore three days later.

Or two days later and you’re like in your program, it says, I’m doing this muscle again, and you’re like cramping up or you’re doing having to do half the weight that you would normally do, you probably should rest longer. you know, even if even if you can get acclimated to that amount, you know, later down the line, it’s just listen to your body. Don’t try to o like override it by saying, Well, this is what the program says, you know. so listen to your body about soreness because that is a really helpful indicator of recovery status. And ⁓

Yeah, and I think I think one other thing I like to tell people or ask people is are there muscles that you find are never sore or like always sore? Because even without knowing any of that other stuff, if they say, ⁓ yeah, like my calves are always sore, you know, we can try to figure out why. maybe their their daily demand that they’re asking of their calves is overwhelming them and so they’re getting tight and stuff, so they actually need to be trained more. or

Maybe they’re just training them way too much, ⁓ or they’re training them on top of doing a ton of steps or something like that. And they’re just getting overwhelmed all the time and they’re sore for that reason. So there’s there’s definitely like just like with most things, there’s extreme ends that you probably want to avoid, and there’s like a healthy middle ground ⁓ in terms of recovery status and soreness can be a helpful kind of way to to make sure you’re not in any extreme.

Giacomo (52:38)
Favorite machine, what machine are we all jumping on together and when we work in with each other next time? Which one? What’s it gonna be?

Coach Sawyer (52:42)
I don’t

Ben (52:45)
I know mine. Ca can you guys guess what mine is? Yeah yeah yeah exactly.

Coach Sawyer (52:45)
know. Ben’s gonna pick like hack squat because he’s so freaking strong at it. He’s a he’s an animal at those. I’ve seen like the look in his eyes when he gets on a on a hack squat is is actually terrifying. and he’s just got bulletproof knees too. He’s squatting deep and he’s just pushing himself really hard. I’m like, wow, this is a different creature.

Giacomo (52:49)
I thought it was a smith machine.

Ben (53:05)
Well,

I used to I used to have bulletproof knees, soyer. No more. I’m now a gr I’m now a grandpa, so I can’t I can’t say that I claim I claim that anymore. But but they’ve they’ve been better recently, so

Coach Sawyer (53:09)
You’re just

That’s crazy, ’cause you’re still in your twenties, so I don’t want to hear it.

Giacomo (53:20)
Yeah, really? So it’s the Hackscot. We’re

going on the Hack Squat next. I’m I’m gonna hold hold you up to it. I’m jumping in with you, I’m going to the Hackscot.

Ben (53:23)
Hack squat for me, what about you guys?

Sir? High squad?

Coach Sawyer (53:29)
no way man. I’m doing if a machine oof I don’t know man. That’s tough.

Ben (53:35)
Machine

Preacher, Carl?

Coach Sawyer (53:36)
Yeah, maybe. That’s I was thinking arms because you know arms are my favorite. So it’s gotta be something arms. But I don’t have any tricep machines that I really like, even though triceps are my favorite to tr to train.

Ben (53:42)
I do, I do.

I was gonna

say maybe some kind of dip machine or something like that.

Coach Sawyer (53:50)
⁓ actually yeah, that’s a great one. I actually do love the dip machine. I’ve been getting more into that lately, especially with my little seatbelt that I put on there. ⁓ man. Just did it today actually. Solid.

Ben (53:57)
Exactly.

That’s the that’s the first thing that I ever bought a seatbelt for was this dip machine that I was using where I was getting, you know, basically pulled out, you know, upright by the machine and I couldn’t stay downwards because ⁓ yeah, because of the weight. So well this has been fun. I’m wondering if there’s anything that we we didn’t hit like ⁓ you know, missed that you guys feel like people kind of fall into when they when they first start out. I know we’ve

Coach Sawyer (54:08)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Giacomo (54:13)
Yeah.

Ben (54:22)
I feel we’ve touched maybe a little bit more on training versus nutrition. I mean, the list could go on and on, right? About things that people fall for. I think in general, like just like trying to be too perfect. I mentioned this at the start with the nutrition, like it has to be all whole foods and they can’t have any processed foods. Like I think that’s a pretty common one, or feeling like you have to hit your macros within, you know, five or ten grams or calories or whatever it is, and being like extremely precise.

With most of this stuff, it’s just be generally consistent over time. Do a generally good job with like eating, you know, a well rounded diet. Like it’s it’s like kind of common sense stuff. But ⁓ again, I think, you know, you hear the louder voices in the space who will say things that are a little bit more extreme has been a theme for this conversation. and you get drawn to that. So any kind of closing thoughts that you either of you guys have?

Giacomo (55:04)
Mm-hmm.

Coach Sawyer (55:04)
Mm-hmm.

Giacomo (55:08)
Other than the fact that I’m happy that we’re speaking about training because people usually l look for support and come to us for nutrition and we decided to nerd out hard on training. And I absolutely love that for our audience today. And I’m really glad that you all dug your heels in the sand and stuck mostly with the training myth. Although hopefully we don’t disappoint y’all and you’re like you’re tuning out, you’re like, they’re talking about training. I could do this already. I don’t need anything. We’re good. And I like, no, like this is this this is the stuff. So

Coach Sawyer (55:31)
Mm-hmm.

Giacomo (55:33)
Hopefully you’re still listening and you’ve gotten some value out of this. That’s really all I have to say.

Coach Sawyer (55:37)
Hmm. Yeah, I’ll I’ll follow it up with ⁓ don’t avoid carbs. Don’t please don’t avoid carbs. at least at least not completely. Sometimes they’re problematic ones, sure. But yeah, I think if you want to have good training and in training, it always comes back to training. If you want to have good training and you wanna have energy to do the things you want to do, then don’t avoid carbs. Maybe just move a little bit more if you’re if you’re considering like

Really, really limiting carbs, it’s it’s not a good move. So I’ll just put it leave it at that, I guess, nutritionally.

Ben (56:08)
And and if you guys are saying, ⁓ you know, you didn’t touch on this thing related to nutrition or this myth, or like, hi, hey, what’s your thought on this? Drop it down in the comments below. if you want, request another episode and we’ll we’ll touch on more nutrition myths last time. And if you leave them in the comments, we’ll address them directly in the podcast. so that’s a little incentive for you guys to leave some comments over on the YouTube video. Even if you’re listening, hey, you if you’re listening on Spotify or Apple Podcasts right now.

Go to the YouTube channel, Muscles by Brussels YouTube channel, find the video and drop a comment. Takes two seconds and we’ll you know, you’ll get some actual adjust you know, you’ll get people addressing your your question directly. So thank you everyone for listening to another episode of the podcast. as always, if you are enjoying the show, it really helps to share with people however you can. Social media, word of mouth. if you’re over on one of the podcast platforms, you can leave a review or you can rate the podcast. Again, those are very helpful.

If you are interested in getting some coaching or getting some assistance, that’s what we do here at Vegan Proteins. That’s what the coaches do. We help people get in the best shape of their lives and help them with all these habits that we’ve been talking about today. So if you’re interested, you can check out the link in the description or head over to veganproteins.com. You can find us all on social media, and we’ll have all that information down below as well. Thanks again for listening to the episode, and we’ll catch you all in the next one. Bye, everyone.