What does a cross-country vegan strong-person party bus have to do with burnout? Absolutely nothing. But it did come up in this week’s episode, and honestly, we kind of love the idea. Once we got back on track, Sawyer and Giacomo dug into the messy, exhausting, and all-too-familiar topic of burnout—what it looks like, how to recognize it, and what to do when you realize you’re running on fumes.
Sawyer shares his own experience from his lawyer days (spoiler: it wasn’t pretty), and Giacomo offers insight on how burnout shows up in coaching clients—especially the ones who think admitting they’re overwhelmed is a weakness. This one’s part personal story, part strategy session, and totally relatable.
If you’re caught in the loop of “just get through this week” on repeat… you need this one.
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[Giacomo]
Welcome back to another episode of Vegan Proteins Muscles by Brussels Radio. My name is
Giacomo. My name is Sawyer.
And this is episode. Thanks so much for tuning in to another episode of Muscles by Brussels
Radio. No, we’re not in Brussels.
Yes, Sawyer and I, I feel like we were doing this just 24 hours ago, because we were. And yet I
get even more time with you getting to talk about some really cool stuff. What am I supposed
to say right now?
What’s been going on since yesterday?
[Sawyer]
Not a whole lot since yesterday, but I mean, little update on us. We’re in Washington state, and
we’re trying to get pre-approved for a home loan. We’re trying to look around for some places.
So it’s pretty cool out here. I mean, we’re excited about that. It feels like a nice little project to
work on, distraction from what’s going on in the bigger, broader world.
So that’s what’s going on in my little world, my neck of the woods.
[Giacomo]
Have you discussed this with your dog yet? And how do they feel about it?
[Sawyer]
Oh man, he’s so excited to get out of the van, I think. We’ve been living in this van on and off for
like six years. It’ll be six years in November.
And I think maybe just as he gets older or I don’t know, but he does not love being in the van.
Maybe he just got spoiled this last time around because he had like a whole yard and all that
stuff. And so now we have to take him out, you know, five, six, seven times a day for him to not
hate it in here.
So we’re like, okay, well, maybe he just needs a house. You know, maybe that’s the deal.
[Giacomo]
And should you wind up staying at home, having the home base land, so to speak, as opposed
to traveling and parking? Do you think you’ll still wind up traveling somewhat often?[Sawyer]
Oh, yeah. I think we’ll probably do different big excursions, you know, and probably in the
weather months that we don’t want to be here anyway, or that we’re, you know, whatever it
works out to be. But yeah, I think we’re still going to do a lot of traveling in the van.
And, you know, I’m honestly of the opinion that we’re going to have some kind of adventure
vehicle at any given time. So once this thing goes kaput, maybe we’ll build out a bus or
something like that. I don’t know.
But I love this lifestyle. And I don’t plan on like fully stopping ever. Definitely.
[Giacomo]
Okay, got it. So I’m on the plane when I travel, and you’re just going to keep driving all over the
place. I can’t see.
Well, we’ll see what happens. But I hope that you keep traveling because I’ll have to live
vicariously through you like that.
[Sawyer]
That is, yeah, well, yeah, we I was gonna say, if we build a bus, it’d be cool to have like a vegan
strong, you know, get together like party. If we did like a traveling thing where we all traveled
there together, that would be cool, too. I don’t know.
But I just think it’d be so cool to like travel with a bunch of vegan athletes, or, you know, the
vegan proteins team at least. I don’t know. I don’t know.
It could be a fun thing, though. Like, if we went from, you know, Boston area to, I don’t know,
into Canada or something together.
[Giacomo]
Putting this out into the universe and someone’s going to steal this idea, please do steal the
idea and invite us on your bus so we can all be happy together traveling. Yeah. Okay, well, you
make that happen.
And I will be the first I will take the front seat out there.
[Sawyer]
Yeah, I’m gonna make you drive this time.
[Giacomo]
I can’t drive big vehicles. I’m sorry. Anyways, this is obviously not what we came here to talkabout today.
We came here to talk about burnout. So in your work, what do you think burnout is? Like, how
do you see that?
[Sawyer]
Like, what is before you start to get into what we actually want to do is just talk about how to
Yeah, I mean, I guess to define it, it would be like a, an imbalance that that is more exhausting
than it is recharging for an extended period of time. Like people can deal with that kind of like
overreach, like with training, they can deal with like overreach here and there. But if it’s
persistently overreaching, and you’re just not recovering enough in between, then you’re just
going to come back weaker and more fatigued and more fatigued.
And that can happen in anything that you’re that stresses you out, that demands more of you
than it recharges you. And I always tell people like, if you’re your production demands, if your
your stress demands come up, your recovery has come up too. And if there’s an imbalance, you
know, played out over several weeks or months, you’re just going to become more and more
you know, accommodated if you don’t rebalance it.
[Giacomo]
I feel like the hardest thing to do, not for all, but for some is to admit that they are experiencing
burnout, because it’s literally saying what I’m doing needs to change. And then getting to that
point is very hard for some some, what I’ve seen is some people refuse to admit it. And others
can’t stop talking about it, but they are unable to do anything about it, which I don’t know
which one is worse.
Honestly, I know that honestly, despite in regards to how people feel, the outcome is still the
same, their health suffers mentally and physically, they get stuck in a pattern that they cannot
change the dare I use the word bad, I wouldn’t if I was speaking to a client, the bad habits
repeat themselves, they feel lost, helpless, hopeless, and they’re literally beating their head
against the wall. And even if whatever, however, they frame things after the fact, they’re left
with results that are subpar, or they’re, and they’re on the decline. And it’s how do you so okay,
so we talked about what burnout is, right?
And let’s think about, I don’t know, do you want to give me some examples, maybe some
examples of different kinds of scenarios you’ve seen for people who are burning a candle at
both ends of burnout?
[Sawyer]
Yeah, I mean, I’ll use I’ll use myself as an example so that I’m not calling anybody out. When I
was a lawyer and working 7am, you know, leaving the house at 7am, and then coming back
home by 7pm, because I was working out because I couldn’t, I would hit traffic if I if I left rightfrom work. So it was like 12 hour days not being at the home and not resting.
And then doing it all again five times a week. I mean, I just, it was getting to the point where I
was calling in sick just because I needed a moment to breathe. And the weekends were not
cutting it.
There was just a massive imbalance in my life. And there’s been jobs, even since then, where
I’ve, you know, there’s just meeting after meeting or thing after thing. And by the end of a long
day, you’re like, whoa, that just went by like that.
But it was just, I didn’t get a second to breathe, or eat or take care of myself. And then you
string enough days together like that. And all of a sudden, you’re like, I haven’t worked out, I
haven’t showered, I haven’t, you know, I mean, so stuff like that can pile up.
And I think everybody kind of knows that feeling. The question is, what do you do about it once
you realize, oh, I’m in one of these like unsustainable loops, and it’s not, there’s no end in sight.
Hopefully, description, you would a burnout kind of occurs or how it happens to you if you’ve
ever had it.
[Giacomo]
Yeah, I’ll fill in some of the blanks. Because you’re a little bit choppy, but I can follow this
conversation. Hopefully, y’all can too out there.
And then the sad part is you can look back, I bet, at this, at what you were doing, and say, in
hindsight, I would have been able to reverse engineer. In hindsight, you’re reverse engineering,
I guess I would guess if I were you, this is what I would be doing, this is how I would play it out.
I would still get the same outcome.
And I would have taken care of myself in this way, I would have done things differently in this
way. Because I think I feel like these excuses just like, well, there are so many hours in the day, I
can only stress adapt and get as efficient as I can with set time, I have to finish what I started,
there’s no other option here. And I’ll deal with the consequences later.
Right? And you just basically are like, well, this is what it takes. And I suppose with that logic,
you can say, okay, well, I’m preparing to as I button things up with whatever is burning me out
right now, I’m fully aware of it.
I’ll address it further. So it’s not a long term bonnet issue. As a coach, where my brain goes, is
how can I help that support that person and help them get to a place where they’re not going
to experience that long term while they haven’t gotten the outcome they’re looking for yet,
while they’re experiencing burnout.
That’s what I think about. Right? Because someone who comes to us, usually, they’re doing
several things well, and right, but they can’t seem to put it all together.Right? We probably talk about balance and flexibility, and being healthy. But then someone
comes to us and we’re like, Oh, no, we’re still going to push her, we’re still going to get you to
be your best, we’re just going to do in the healthiest way possible.
And PS, your health and fitness are going to be a priority. There’s no way that your health and
fitness cannot be a top, like the top priority, taking care of yourself. I don’t know what it looks
like.
I don’t know what the answer is right now. But we’re going to fix your burnout. And because it’s
a part of the process of getting you the results you’re looking for.
Honestly, full transparency doesn’t go down that way all the time. But I feel like that’s the ideal.
That’s the goal.
[Sawyer]
Yeah. Yeah, I think a lot of times it is work. It’s work that that takes up the lion’s share of
people’s energy.
And, you know, it’s okay, if there are seasons, like, you know, everybody’s kind of got a busy
season at work, I think. But if it’s just persistent, for an undefined amount of time, first of all, if
you’re not in control of the flow of work, then I think the first step to getting out of that is being
very communicative with your superiors and saying, look, this is how I feel right now. Because
any, like, emotionally intelligent manager or boss or whatever, will know, oh, this is, this is not
something I can ignore.
You know, especially if it’s not just a fleeting thing. It’s one week, you know what I mean? You
know, if it’s something that’s chronic, and it’s something that’s come up now a couple different
times, I need to take it seriously, or I will be pushing my people closer and closer to burnout.
And then we’re going to have a, you know, staffing crisis, basically, at some point. So, you know,
I think, and there’s many other ways to it’s like, you’re, you’re responsible, even if you’re not in
control of the thing that’s draining you, like it’s something outside of your control that you can
really, you know, affect. You have to find some way of communicating or addressing the
problem before it just reaches a boiling point, and you cannot cope anymore.
I think that’s step one is you need to be communicative, or you have to try to manage if you’re
in control of the, you know, the variable, the thing that’s taking.
[Giacomo]
Yeah, it’s true. That I think is the hardest part, how do you minimize your risk of anxiety? How
do you focus on the things that don’t feel good to focus on, even though you know, in your
heart that you’ll feel better, you’ll have better energy.
And that’s where those simple, practical things can come into play, like focusing on what yoursleep hygiene, people let their sleep go before anything. It’s so hard to help someone with that.
[Sawyer]
Yeah, you know, you know, what’s so interesting about sleep is that I found while coaching
people that there is just an amount of downtime, not sleep time, but downtime that people
want to have each day. And so if their day is 90% full with like work and things that they are like
a laundry list of responsibilities, people will stay up just to have downtime. And so it’ll cut into
their sleep time.
And then you know what I mean? So everything gets pushed back, but they still need that
downtime. So I think people will kind of in their heads, they’ll be like, well, I’ll just do less
downtime.
And maybe they do. But I think pretty much everybody at some point recognizes, oh, I just need
to do nothing a little for at least part of the day, you know, and I think we need to like respect
that. And maybe it maybe it’s just one day a week or something.
I don’t know, it could be different for different people. But I think like, I think learning about
yourself and how much downtime you actually need is probably a part of the equation that a lot
of people kind of glance over, in my opinion.
[Giacomo]
Well, totally. I’m just thinking of saying I’m going to hire you, Sawyer. I’m going to hire you as
my coach, you can tell me to do nothing.
[Sawyer]
Be some like, you know, breathing room in your day so that you’re not feeling like, oh, I opened
my eyes, it’s a bunch of responsibilities, then I close my eyes. I think everybody kind of wants
some space in there to enjoy their day, even if it’s a busy day. Because I think just as humans,
we need some points of the day, some some short term things to look forward to.
We can’t just be completely eyes fixed on the horizon creatures all the time, you know what I
mean?
[Giacomo]
I do know exactly what you mean. I’m commiserating. I’m just teasing a little bit because it’s
funny, because I don’t get to hang out with you often.
And I wish that we got to. But yeah, it’s not an easy habit to break either taking excess time, not
truly enjoying it and calling it decompressing and downtime and then feeling guilty all the
while. And before you know it, you’re in this like 24 hour revolving cycle where you don’t feel
quite right.And you’re not experiencing good quality life because your habits aren’t healthy. And your
mental health is in the crapper. So and it’s pretty common amongst those who are looking for
that space, if you will, where they’re literally like this is for me personally, it’s little tiny pockets
throughout the day.
You know, if I’m stopping for five minutes, instead of thinking how I can be productive and
taking stock of how to be productive, I’m with my puzzle for five minutes, I’m putting a couple
pieces on or I’m putting a controller in my hand and I’m playing 15 minutes of a video game. If I
can have a good pocket of time, so put it this way. Let’s say you have a family of three, you
know, you got your nuclear family, or let’s say you have your business that you run and
manage, or let’s say you have a crisis that’s going on in your life that’s fresh and raw, or it
hasn’t, it’s uncertain, right?
There is that shoe waiting to drop, whether you care to admit it or not, that you can feel that
way and also the actual risk. And maybe that one hour of time that you usually have, or those
three hours of time, whatever it is, maybe that time might disappear. If it disappears, what
have you done during the day to have little sanity checks with to find ways to say, hey, I’m still
finding ways to take care of myself and feel like I’m just taking space and time for myself during
the day.
So to me, that’s what I think about because we all experience trauma. We all have life does life
and we all experience crises. We all wind up being overworked at one point or another.
We all take on more than we could handle at one point or another at different stages in our life.
And sometimes you don’t even have that pocket of time that you plan for, but obviously plan
for that pocket of time and try to honor it. For the love of everything, try to honor that time for
yourself.
[Sawyer]
Yeah. I think, yeah, we can analogize it like you’re going underwater when you’re doing this
work, when you’re really digging, you have to come up for air eventually. And the more often
you come up for air, the more at ease you’ll feel about the whole, the more balanced you’ll feel.
But I think there’s a certain amount of time you’ll be up and not doing anything that you’ll like,
want to do more work. It’s just very rare in this day and age that we get a lot of moments like
that, especially in adulthood, right? When you’re a kid, you’re bored a lot.
And you’re like, you can pour a lot of time and energy into stuff. And it’s like, wow, this is really
cool. Cause I can be really productive with working out or music or whatever.
When you get to adulthood, it’s like, you just have so many responsibilities and you need to
manage your ability to come back and do it again. And that means planning for stuff that
makes you feel good day to day, as well as week to week. So I think, yeah, if I were to recap
though, I would say step one is communicate.First of all, admit, I guess that it’s happening. Two is communicate to the people that need to
know, the close people in your life and the people maybe in control of some of this stuff that’s
draining you. Hey, communicate.
Hey, this is really taking a lot out of me. And if this is going to go much longer than I need to
figure out a way to get some distance from it, let people know. And if it’s something in your
control purely, then maybe just scheduling that, like you’re saying, picking up a video game or
whatever every now and then.
One of the things I was thinking of saying after that though, was that, and I kind of missed the
thought here, but I forget how exactly I was going to word this, but recognizing that you can
periodically overreach, but you can’t productly overreach and creating a system in which
you’ve… Uh-oh, did I lose you?
[Giacomo]
No, I’m standing perfectly still because I’m listening.
[Sawyer]
I was like, wow. I was like, I thought I froze because you were so still. Holy crap.
[Giacomo]
Don’t make a move.
[Sawyer]
Don’t make a move. You have to move more than that blink or something. Holy crap.
So creating a system in which you’ve said, this is the bare minimum amount of time that I need.
Because here’s the thing, when I went to law school, for example, I was told, there are going to
be nights you pull all-nighters. There are going to be times where you can’t even work out
because your mind is just going to be going, you’re going to be so scared and you’re going to
be studying so much.
And I remember going into that and being like, respectfully screw that. I’m not doing that. I’m
not going to sacrifice my health for this degree.
If it happens, it happens. If I work at something within a reasonable amount that I think is
reasonable and I get the degree, cool. If I work a reasonable amount and then they say that’s
not good enough, I’ll be like, cool.
Because at the end of the day, I guess for me, and this might just be a personal thing, is that if
anything demands that I no longer take care of myself, that I don’t have the ability to set
boundaries, that I don’t have time or energy to work out like ever, maybe certain periods,maybe I take a little bit of a hit. But if it ever becomes a chronic issue like, oh yeah, I haven’t
worked out in a month because this thing that I’m doing, it’s gone too far. It’s taken over too
much of my life.
Because fitness will always be a little bit of extra work, for sure. But if I get to the point in my
day or my routine or my life where I don’t have even the smallest bit of extra work capacity to
do that stuff, then I know that’s like my canary in the coal mine. I’ve gone to no man’s land.
I can’t keep doing this path. I need to go. I need to switch to something else.
So that’s my canary in the coal mine for when I need to change the direction of my life or make
a change anyway.
[Giacomo]
Yeah. And I want to start to think about, or I want to hear your ideas as well, the obvious ones,
what you can do when you’re, aside from habits, aside from thinking about and framing what
to do, aside from all that, aside from just talking about sleeping more, the things that come to
mind that I know help for me are to focus on meditation, to take space from people, to have
some massage therapy, body work helps. I’m a big believer in sensory deprivation, float tanks,
because I feel like it helps with sensory overload. I like taking space like that.
And I’ve talked about stuff like that in other episodes here and probably on YouTube to put it
out there. Oh, and also caffeine, the most abused drug, that one hits me hard. So I try my best
to get, I literally take breaks from it, all this stuff.
So those are the things, journaling. Journaling helps a lot.
[Sawyer]
All these things. You’re like rest and digest. When you get overstimulated, when you get
overworked, you’re like, oh, I need to give my sympathetic nervous system a break and just
kind of chill for a while, create more space, be myself.
I like that.
[Giacomo]
Well, I hope that it works. I have to believe that it does. It’s the same way you could ask yourself
for forgiveness for something that you feel like you caused and you’re responsible for.
And even if you don’t believe it, you have to believe that it’s good for you. That’s how I feel
about resting your sympathetic nervous system like that. I have to believe that deep down
inside, it’s good for my body.
It’s good for my brain. It’s helpful to do these things. Even if I emotionally am not investing in it,I don’t actually believe it.
I think that doing these things are in fact good for you. They’re healthy practices to help reset.
And then you can go ahead and start to think your way through it, essentially.
[Sawyer]
I’m curious, because you are very much like a type A, go, go, go type of dude, in my opinion,
from what I’ve seen. So it must have been pretty hard for you to go ahead and adapt to these
methods that you’re talking about, because these are very antithesis of that. They’re very like, I
disconnect, I mellow out, I focus on myself, I chill.
There must have been a pretty, I don’t know, was it hard for you to get yourself to do those
things at first?
[Giacomo]
I think so. As long as I was able to bucket them all into a short period of time, I was fine,
because I am type A.
[Sawyer]
I want to rest as efficiently as possible. Yeah.
[Giacomo]
That’s why I like that. No, what wound up happening, that’s what I did at the end of last year.
And what wound up happening is I’ve had a really healthy 2025.
And all of those, that time that I took played out favorably. Well, now I’m not utilizing my type A
personality to get me through my days for the first half of this year. And I feel really good about
it.
And guess what? My outcome is still pretty similar to what it should be, more or less.
[Sawyer]
At least I think it is. And you can just, yeah, so you can at least use that track record. You were
brave at first, and you’re like, okay, I’m going to do this, even though it feels like the last thing I
want to do.
I really want to just get more work done, but I’m going to just tell myself to relax. And then
once it all plays out, and you see, oh, yeah, I was about as productive, we did about as well. You
can use that in the future to say, yeah, actually, this is not a bad idea.
I need to do this again, because I felt better. And then I still got the results that I wanted. That’s
awesome.So you had a moment of courage, and it paid off dividends for years to come. That’s cool.
[Giacomo]
Well, the fear is, and with that knowledge, there has to be a way to continue to bake that stuff
in regularly, ideally before you get burnt out, right? The goal, constantly search for better
outcomes for your future, find ways to be healthier and more balanced while still pushing for
higher heights or new goals, whatever they look like. There’s that fear of failure.
It’s real. I was on one of our team calls yesterday. And I was just getting the sense, I completely
relate to one of our members here at Muscles by Brussels.
And it’s just like that fear of failure will wreck you. It won’t stop you. However, it will wreck you
mentally.
[Sawyer]
Yeah. Yeah, just like a shell of your former self trying to chase something, and then be like, why
am I even doing this anymore? And then you’ll just, you’ll burn out.
Yeah, it makes sense. It’s interesting, because when you when I know that, like how your your
group of people like the more type A type of go getter type of people work, and but I don’t
necessarily relate that much. I am I think it’s a spectrum, because, like, while you’re probably
over here, I’m a little bit more over here.
I’m a little bit more type B, a little bit more laid back. And if there ever is a week where I have to
do go, go, go, you know, even if I’m not exhausted, I’m just kind of like, where’s the downtime?
Where do where do I get to chill a little bit.
And it’s interesting to me, because I don’t have to fight to get myself to relax. I need to get
myself fired up sometimes. And so for me, the recharging is often done in like the downtime,
but it’s more like, stimulative, I guess than yours is.
So like, for instance, I like being surrounded by people that are like close to me. And that helps
me recharge that makes me feel like, wow, I had a lot of like, I’ve connected a lot with people.
Whereas you’re like talking to people all day all the time.
So it’s probably like, I don’t need more of that. Maybe that’s my hypothesis anyway. So I’m kind
of like, even though I’m connecting with people with work and stuff, I think that my preferred
method of recharging a lot of times is socializing.
And like, even when I play video games, which I do often, I love to play like social video games, I
like to play Call of Duty, where we’re communicating and we’re working on a team to do
something, you know what I mean? So it’s a little less isolating, I get a little bit bored when I’m
isolated, and I need like feedback from other people. But it’s just interesting how it’s like similar
needs, similar itch being scratched, but just different personality types and how they tend torecharge, you know?
[Giacomo]
Yeah, totally.
[Sawyer]
Yeah. I do have a trust deprivation thing, though. That sounds freaking fun, actually.
[Giacomo]
It is, actually. Dane and I both did it, and she did not enjoy her first experience.
[Sawyer]
Okay.
[Giacomo]
And I was like, oh my gosh, I’m hooked. I’m going to be doing this again, and again, and again.
So cool.
You mean to tell me that I can exist without anyone else around me and in silence and darkness
and just like float? Okay.
[Sawyer]
The notion of it kind of scares me when I first heard about the float tanks and you can’t see
anything. I still am a little freaked out by it, I’m not going to lie. But I’ve noticed I just sleep so
much better when I have an eye mask on, or when I have headphones on.
I work out better. So I’m just noticing dimming one of my senses is so powerful for changing
my state of being. And I’m like, wow, that’s strategically done.
That’s a pretty powerful thing, and it can induce some pretty good things if you do it
intelligently. So I like it.
[Giacomo]
Yeah, totally. So sleep hygiene, what are your tips for that?
[Sawyer]
Oh man, I’m probably not the person to ask about this. Because again, I play video games,
sometimes they go a little bit too late. But in terms of trying to make sure that doesn’t happen,
I guess maybe I’m the person to talk about it because I’ve attempted to stay up late.Making sure that doesn’t happen is, the thing that helps me the most is just calculating
beforehand, okay, what time do I have to be up and functional in the morning? And how much
sleep do I think I’m going to need for that to happen? And factoring in, okay, I need to wind
down at this time, I need to brush my teeth at this time, I need to be in bed by this time, it’s
probably gonna take me this long to fall asleep.
So I kind of reverse engineer when I need to start getting ready for bed, when I need to shut
the games off, when I need to get off the phone, whatever I’m doing, and just start winding
down. So that’s my main thing is like, okay, if I know I need eight hours of sleep, and I’ve got to
be up at 8am. Okay, I got to be getting ready for bed no later than like 1030 11.
Because then it’s gonna take me at least until 1130 or so to get to sleep. And I might wake up a
little bit earlier than I expect. So I got to build in some cushion time there.
So that’s me. Anyway.
[Giacomo]
No, that’s priority number one is finding a way to turn down and honoring that instead of
procrastinating. That’s priority number one, you’re actually starting at the starting line. That’s
perfect.
I love it.
[Sawyer]
Being realistic about how long it’s going to take you to do that. Because I think sometimes, at
least when you first start, you’re like, oh, yeah, I’ll just be out like a light at this time. You know,
not having done anything leading up to it.
And it just doesn’t work like that. You’re gonna miss out on precious hours of sleep if you just
leave it to the last minute and rush everything and your dental hygiene probably won’t be as
good and all that stuff.
[Giacomo]
I’ll chime in with ways to help you help you stay asleep. I like weighted blankets can be helpful. I
found it to keep me in bed.
I know that this might be like psychosomatic probably is but I feel like when my body is
experiencing chronic pain, so I’m lifting hard, I’m under a cupboard or whatever, or maybe I’m
actually hurt. The blanket keeps me in bed because I find that I loosen up at night, when I’m
fully asleep. And then that wakes me up in the middle of the night in pain with a blanket
soothes me and keeps me calm because it’s there’s weight on my body.
So I’m not able to tense up as much at night. So from that perspective, as an athlete, I feel like ithelps. And also it’s like someone giving you a hug, which is really nice.
As much as it would be nice to spoon with your dog or your partner or with a pillow all night
long, sometimes it doesn’t happen. Sometimes you start flailing around and having something,
some pressure on you like that I find to be helpful, leaving the room a little cooler than you
would like before you go to bed. But once you’re actually sleeping, it usually wants to keep you
in bed.
That’s a good idea. Typically, like snacking on something right close to bedtime kind of helps
me a little bit get into my sleep cycle. Having a little snack for bedtime is nice.
I find that to be comforting. Having a what if for the middle of the night? Yeah.
So in other words, having a book to read that’s by my bedside, having a glass of water to drink
if I’m feeling super dehydrated, having a sleep meditation cycle that’s near me in case my
mind’s running a mile a minute and I just can’t seem to turn my brain off, having a different
position to turn my body or a different pillow to sleep on or a different area to go into, whether
it’s the floor or a different room or whatever, like having a what if scenario.
If I wake up in the middle of the night and I get in my own head, and I’m angry, and I’m
anxious, and I’m ambitious about whatever it is that I’m ready to do once I’m done sleeping.
And I think that I’m just going to make that decision or to get out of bed where I’m going to
rest with myself for hours. Where’s my what if?
And those are the kinds of things that I feel like have given me the confidence that I could stay
asleep and stay asleep into the morning long enough. What about waking up too late and then
regretting? How do you focus on that so that you have a nice healthy…
[Sawyer]
Yeah, before we get to that though, I think some of the things you said just now about the
staying asleep stuff, that jogs a lot of my memories, which is the stuff I said about sensory
deprivation. I got an eye mask, which I love because I’m very sensitive to light. So if somebody
gets up earlier than me or something like that, and same thing with earplugs, you can get
earplugs too if you know it’s going to be noisy in the morning.
Honestly, not only does that keep me asleep and less disturbed by things, it also, even if I wake
up, I find that I’m less likely to just hop on my phone or start thinking about things because I’m
just… Whatever it is about being sensory deprived, it just kind of dulls some thoughts for
whatever reason, or it just makes you less reactive to the environment, and so you’re less, I
don’t know, able to be stimulated, and I really like those things. Also, cuddling does help.
What I’ve been doing is if I wake up at like four in the morning, I feel kind of bad, but I’ll be like,
hey, can you cuddle me to me? Because I know that having the weight on my chest like that,
like your head on my chest, I can’t move for one. I’d feel rude if I grabbed my phone, so I’mkind of just pinning myself in place, but also it’s kind of nice to have somebody that loves you
right next to you.
So I feel like that actually helps me quite a bit with getting back to sleep. So I think those couple
of things I would say too. But yeah, as far as getting up too late and regretting it, oof, that’s a
tough one, man.
That’s like a systems issue because you’re probably not either getting to bed on time or you’re
not sleeping very well is probably the main thing.
[Giacomo]
So that’s maybe sort itself out if you’re starting to take better care of and focusing on your
sleep hygiene.
[Sawyer]
Right, because if it happens once or twice, it’s like, okay, a little bit of variability you can’t control
for. Maybe you’re a little more tired than you realize, but if it’s happening chronically, then
you’re either not factoring how much sleep you actually need, and so you need to go to bed
earlier, or you’re not giving yourself enough rest throughout the day. You’re maybe pushing
yourself too hard some other way.
I mean, if it becomes a chronic thing, it’s a thing you need to now change a system around, not
just say, oh, well, it happened. What can you do? It’s too late.
That’s kind of my, I guess, my first thoughts on that.
[Giacomo]
I love that one. That’s a good one. That’s a very good idea, actually.
Yeah. So, okay. So, I think the next thing to focus on is starting to take inventory of your
routine.
At least for me, personally, I feel like that’s helpful. Because if you can’t, you can’t fix something
if you don’t know what the problem is. So maybe the same way we recommend you keep an
eating journal for a couple of days, so you can become aware how much you need.
It’s I don’t want to eat these foods, and I know that I want to make changes. I know that I want
to eat this amount of food. I know that I want to eat healthy.
It’s like, yes, but do you even know how you’re eating right now? Once you start to pay
attention to what you’re doing, you become aware of what you’re doing. You don’t have to
worry about it being top of mind or digging your way through it.
You tend to make changes once you’re aware of what you’re doing when you’re ready to makea change. And so when you’re ready to say, hey, we know what burnout is. This podcast has
struck a chord.
And you’re starting to think to yourself, okay, well, let’s let’s admit this to myself. Let’s start to
look for some support. Let’s start to make some changes.
And here you are. Okay. The very next thing you do is take a look at instead of focusing on the
outcome instead of dwelling on or accepting the fact that you have burnout now start to look at
what your day looks like and what you need to start working in and what you should start doing
differently, but not actually try to fix the problem.
Take inventory. And I think if you can literally just go throughout your day with a pen and a
paper or a screen and a finger or a keyboard or whatever, just start taking inventory of what
you’re doing, sum up, sum down, and on a separate journal, if you will, start to think about the
things that you regret that you’re not doing or, or, or not even, let’s just say you love what
you’re doing, but you don’t love the way that you’re feeling. You don’t love how it’s affecting
your health. Start to think about the things that you would do to restore and recharge.
So you’re on the other side of this thing so that everything you love to do feels better. And the
outcome is the same or better. I think if you take and what would that look like?
What would you do? And it’s like, how would you give me a walkthrough of what that would
look like for you with a client or yourself or whatever?
[Sawyer]
Yeah, that’s a good, that’s a really good recommendation. I think, yeah, kind of, well, yeah, take
inventory of what you’re doing right now, what your hours are spent doing, doesn’t have to be
super fine detail, but like knowing, okay, hour to hour, what am I, what am I really spending the
majority of my energy doing? And then compare that to a list of maybe thing or a day plan of
like what you think would be a balanced day, what you think would be a realistically balanced
day?
Because I think, you know, if I were to say, oh, describe your ideal day, people would just say,
oh, I’d be laying on a beach drinking, you know, Mai Tais or whatever. But what I really think
that that’s the burnout brain talking. What you really want is to contribute to society and do
things, get things done, feel productive, then have some time for you, then have some time
with the kids or whatever.
You know what I mean? So there’s, there’s a balanced day in there in your brain somewhere.
You just need to bring it out and put it onto paper and say, okay, here’s what I’m actually doing.
And here’s what my ideal balanced day is. How do I make these more similar? You know what I
mean?And so I think then it’ll start revealing to you, oh, I’m spending a lot of time on this. And, you
know, granted, it’s very easy in that moment to justify, oh, I need to give a little bit more effort
to this. Oh, I could do this stuff later.
You know, you’re making concessions in your head because you’re in that day. I think the more
you compare it to that ideal list, you’ll know where it’s not okay anymore. Like you’ve been
making concessions for long enough that it’s like, okay, I really need to move towards this.
Like, this is my ideal. Why am I not pushing for this? And that’s, I mean, that’s a way to be
process and outcome oriented at the same time, right?
Because you’re talking about a process, but you’re working towards an outcome with that
process. So I think that could be the good way of like, looking at things realistically, not saying I
need to get there tomorrow, but saying, look, now these two things are in front of me, and I
need to make this one look like this one.
[Giacomo]
Yeah, exactly. The very first thing that happens the second someone accepts something is they
immediately start trying to work on it. And how are you supposed to argue or with yourself or
restrain yourself from doing that when clearly it is going to result in some good things, but
maybe not the outcome you’re looking for.
If you don’t take a little bit of time to assess and consider the process by again, taking
inventory.
[Sawyer]
Yeah. I think the roadblock that most people have is they just think, they just jump right to
shaming themselves and they think, oh, why don’t I want this more? Why am I not, you know,
why am I so lazy?
Why am I so like this or that? But it’s like, I’ve met very few, I would argue nobody in my life. I
don’t think I really believe in laziness.
I think people overexert themselves in some areas of their lives and underexert themselves in
others. And sometimes they get caught up in their heads too much. So for instance, somebody
with like chronic anxiety spends a lot of time thinking about decisions.
So they’re exhausted about that. They’re not lazy. They’re just really spending a lot of time in
their own heads, getting exhausted by stuff.
So yeah, on paper they’re lazy, but everybody’s trying, everybody cares about something and
they’re always going to be trying for those things. I just think, I don’t really believe in laziness. I
think people just get hung up on certain things.They get way too dedicated to certain things. And so other things fall by the wayside, they get
imbalanced and then they think, oh, why am I not doing this other stuff? Well, it’s not because
you don’t care about this other stuff.
It’s because you’re A, afraid of that other stuff and addressing it and doing something about it.
Or B, way, way, way too invested in this thing that’s taking up the lion’s share of your time and
energy and afraid to detach from it even a little bit, that fear of failure you’re talking about. So I
think, yeah, it all comes down to you need to rebalance your priorities and look at what your
day actually looks like compared to what it should look like if you wanted to have a balanced
existence.
Instead of spending 99% of your energy on two or three things in your life that are important,
you could be spending 70% of your stuff on that. And then the rest, the 30% that’s left, you
could be spreading out across other things that you care about that maybe are less important,
but still important to you. So that’s, I don’t know, that helps.
[Giacomo]
Well, what I want, what my hope is, is that when everyone listens to this, whoever’s here still
with us is listening to this, that they go out, that you go out and you find ways to recognize
burnout in yourself. You can take these tips and make some changes. You can reach out to us
for support, do the things that you know, work for you.
And when you’re at that point where doing things isn’t going to give you the result you need,
and you’re going to flail, that you take a minute to breathe, pause, and assess so that you have
a better process and you can fix your burnout. And I feel like we kind of did, unless there’s
something else that you wanted to share, I think we did a pretty good job picking this one
apart.
[Sawyer]
Yeah, I liked it. I think we got to some practical stuff. We talked high level stuff.
I will just add that part of why I love being a coach is helping people break through those
barriers and really break that stuff down. I think when you’re in regular life and everybody else
is busy, they might be struggling with the same kinds of burnout. You feel like a burden for
even asking for help in a lot of these areas.
And what’s cool about being a coach is that it’s like, it’s guilt-free. You’ve paid this person to
help you sort through your life and fix your things. And, you know, some people come in
expecting that I’m just going to tell them, hey, you need to work harder.
But I’m just like, no, let’s get into it. Let’s dig through your life and let’s see where the extra stuff
is and where the unbalanced stuff is. And let’s try to rebalance stuff.And it becomes fun. It’s like a group project. And you don’t have to feel bad about putting that
work on me because I literally signed up for it.
So I really like that part of being a coach is that it puts me in a unique position to take on this
stuff with somebody, sort it out with them, and help them feel like they’re not in it alone. And
they don’t have to be super high level about everything. They can just come to a call or have a
conversation with somebody who’s like, on that level.
And then they come, we talk about all that stuff in a very conceptual manner, like we are right
now, but just applying it to some particular person.
[Giacomo]
I love it, friends. This is cool. Well, why don’t you wrap it up and take things home for us?
[Sawyer]
Okay. Well, thanks for being here, guys. Check us out on all the socials.
We’re at Vegan Proteins and Muscles by Brussels. I love Instagram. I’m on Instagram the most.
You can find me at soyboyfitnesscoaching. And yeah, give us a like, give us a follow, share us
with a friend. If you have somebody who’s suffering from burnout that you think would benefit
from this message.
And yeah, we’ll be in touch.
[Giacomo]
All right, everyone. Thanks again for tuning in. Once again, my name is Giacomo.
[Sawyer]
And I’m Sawyer.
[Giacomo]
And we’ll talk to you soon.
[Sawyer]
Bye. Peace.
