Most of us didn’t go vegan and instantly become nutrition wizards. Whether you went full “lentils and brown rice” or lived off potato chips and Oreos (no judgment), there are some common pitfalls that almost every new vegan stumbles into. In this episode, Sawyer and Giacomo break down the top 10 mistakes we’ve made ourselves—and that we see all the time in our clients. You’ll learn what to look out for, how to correct course, and how to stay fueled and thriving on a plant-based diet—without falling into the “I guess I just need meat” trap.
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Ep 220 – AUDIO 10 Nutrition Mistakes
[Sawyer]
Hey everybody, welcome to Vegan Proteins Muscles by Brussels radio. My name is Sawyer.
[Giacomo]
And I’m Giacomo.
[Sawyer]
And this is episode… All right, so today we’re talking about common mistakes on the vegan diet.
[Giacomo]
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, you didn’t even warm me up at all. That’s it. You just go right into the
topic, Sawyer.
[Sawyer]
I’m sorry. I’m known to do this. This is something I, you know, not big on foreplay over here, I
guess.
But yeah, okay, we’ll warm it up. I think there’s a lot of people that could use this message. And
that’s because when people invariably start going more plant-based, they’re going to make
certain mistakes.
And I think we all did make certain mistakes. We’re not gonna make all of those mistakes. I
think typically they…
Like when I was looking at the list I made, I think I was leaning towards like, there’s some
mistakes that like more junk food vegans will make. And then there’s some mistakes like more
like whole food vegans will make. And I think generally there’s two camps.
Would you say, do you agree with that? Or do you think that’s a little too simplistic?
[Giacomo]
Junk food, whole food, and then people who don’t know what they’re doing, but they’re bought
into going vegan.
[Sawyer]
Okay, okay, so three camps. Got it.
[Giacomo]We could keep going, but for the purpose of simplicity, yeah, why don’t we stick with that? I like
it. So, but before we get ready, so where did you fall when you went vegan?
Let’s give the audience a little bit about us too.
[Sawyer]
That’s a good one. Yeah, well, when I went vegan, it was like 2016, I think. So I didn’t really
know.
And I was the first vegan I knew. So I didn’t really know of any like, I don’t even think Beyond
Burgers were out then. So it was kind of like harder to be a junk food vegan.
I think in that phase, and I didn’t know that there was like a lot of non, or I didn’t know, even
know like what junk food options there were. So I think I was more whole food. And so, but I
was also like, very aware of how many calories I was eating.
And so I had different problems than I think a lot of people will. But there’s some things that
show up on the list that I made that I experienced. But I think, I don’t know, I can’t tell how
typical my experience is, because so many people are so different.
But I’d say I was more whole food side than anything. What about you?
[Giacomo]
Oh, that’s a loaded question. When I went vegan, I was in an orthorexic like place. And I was
young.
And it was 20 years ago. And I was 22. And there were no options.
[Sawyer]
Yeah.
[Giacomo]
So it was like 22, 20, 2002. No options. I was just looking for the healthy, the way to be
healthier.
And I was still like, okay, well, I want to make sure that I can perform. This can’t get in the way
of me becoming a better athlete. So I was a mess back then with all of that.
And I didn’t have any options. So I guess you could say I fell in the whole food camp, if I’m
being as honest as possible there. Yeah, for sure.
Zero junk food. Zero. Absolutely.
Really? Oh, wow. Yeah.Yeah.
[Sawyer]
I think, looking back, I’m like, where was I? I was trying to get my protein from all lentils or just
things that are very tough to eat enough of to get enough protein. But I was like, I’m going to
do it.
I have to do it. Because I didn’t know of any alternative. So yeah, as I got into it more, I was like,
wow, this is so much easier now.
But at the beginning, it was a little bit weird to figure out. So yeah, hopefully, we can help clear
those things up for people today and help them avoid some of the pitfalls we fell into.
[Giacomo]
Well, sure. And the pitfalls that our clients have fell into over the years, and then they come to
us. And even though they’ve done the work on their own, you can recognize the patterns and
the different things that they’re still working through.
And meeting them where they’re at can be a little bit tricky sometimes. But hopefully, putting
this information out there can help people feel more supported, not shamed, and have the
opportunity to think about this stuff and process this stuff on their own. Or maybe think about
what they’ve worked through and our perspective on it over here.
[Sawyer]
So yeah, I think there’s going to be some something for everybody in this, because I think that
we cover a whole lot. There’s 10 of them, right? So there’s a whole lot of mistakes, and they can
kind of span different camps or mindsets for different peoples.
So I think it’ll be good. You want to start off with number one? I didn’t put them in any
particular order, by the way.
I don’t know if you want to do whole food first or something like that. Okay. Well, number one,
if you’re ready to go over it, number one is not eating enough calories.
Was that something that you experienced?
[Giacomo]
Hmm. Well, I can say that with my clients, they have, I can’t think of exact experiences, but I
know that that can be a problem when clients are not when they are not eating enough, and
they don’t understand that they’re not eating enough. And you have to walk them through the
process where it’s like, okay, well, you’ve changed your diet, you’re confused, you want to make
sure you’re gaining muscle, or you’re stressed out about your choices in what to eat and how toeat.
And then the answer is simple. It’s because you’re not, they’re not eating enough. And then you
have to explain, well, what’s on your plate, how much food is on your plate doesn’t necessarily
translate to how many calories you’re eating.
That’s the biggest mistake.
[Sawyer]
Yeah, absolutely. I think this could apply to the people in the camp of like the whole food camp
for sure. But also the don’t know what they’re doing camp, right?
Because they might not be counting calories or trying to be super healthy necessarily, but
where they’re at options that are limited, and they don’t know how many calories are taking in
because they’re not really sure about this stuff. And so they just end up eating far too few
calories like, you know, and having the, you know, the hunger and stuff like that. Because that’s
the people who say like, oh, I just went vegan for a couple weeks, and I was like, so hungry.
And I think my body just like needs meat or something like that. They’ll just say something like
blanket statement, like they’ve figured it out, and they tried it, but they can’t do it. It’s just not
healthy for them.
And yeah, to me, that’s the biggest, the red flag in my mind goes off like, okay, you don’t know
how many calories you’re eating. Because if you’re eating enough, like say you’re eating 4000
calories a day on accident, promise you, you would not be hungry, hormonally or otherwise.
But you weren’t doing that.
You’re probably just not tracking anything. You’re probably just trying to eat clean, whole foods
or whatever. And you ended up eating, you know, 1500 calories a day and you’re starving.
So like, that’s kind of what I think, you know, usually happens when people aren’t paying
attention to those things, or they’re trying to be super, super clean eating. And they end up,
you know, just way undershooting their calorie needs. So I don’t know, do you want to talk
about like, kind of solutions to the each of these things?
Or do you just you don’t want to just describe the problem and then go back and talk about
them? Or what do you feel like is the best form?
[Giacomo]
I like the idea of talking about solutions and helping people understand what’s on their plate
and thinking about how you’re you can become more aware of like avoiding that pitfall.
[Sawyer]Yeah. Okay. Do you have anything like I have some ideas?
Do you want to go over first? Okay. So I’m thinking immediately, it’s it’s very hard to know
somebody’s caloric needs, based on just looking at them.
Because you’ve got physical activity level, you’ve got genetics, you’ve got all kinds of things. So
what I typically tell people is, look, if you’re not sure where to start in terms of calories, when
you go vegan, it’s going to be similar to where you were before you went vegan, because it’s
going you have the same caloric needs, right? You didn’t gain 50 pounds of muscle overnight or
anything like that.
So what you can do is you can download a like a calorie tracking app, like chronometer
chronometer, I never know how to say it, down one of those apps. And put in a typical day of
eating before you went vegan, right? Or before you started going plant based typical day of
eating, you know, that’s probably gonna be around your maintenance about.
And then you can take that number and say, Okay, well, I’m going to do this number, but
vegan, and I’m going to plug it in and do all the things. And you might find Oh, I have to eat a
bit more based on the food choices that I’m making. Or maybe you say, Well, I’m gonna need
something a little more calorie dense, because I don’t want to eat that much or whatever it is.
But you’ll have an idea of like where your maintenance calories are. And you’ll have an idea of
where to go. Because if you want to gain weight, or if you want to lose weight, you just add or
subtract a few hundred calories from that amount.
And you’ll start heading in that direction. So it’s also going to help you get into better shape or
move in the direction you want to move. So assuming you want to move some some direction,
wait, so I think I think getting an idea of how many calories you’ve been eating, historically, can
help you really, not only go in a better direction if you’re trying to change stuff, but also just
have a good idea of Okay, this is my body’s needs.
I should probably be eating around here, even when I go vegan, because it doesn’t change you,
you know, calories or calories. At that level, anyway.
[Giacomo]
Yeah, exactly. And the more you become aware of how much you’re eating, the more you can
realize how you have to change what’s on your plate to meet your needs. Or if food is making
you full, because it’s voluminous, like if you’re eating lots of vegetables, I want to eat healthier, I
want more nutrients, I’m loving being on a plant being on a plant based diet, because I get to
eat fresh food and fresh produce and tastes really good.
And I love how it feels. But you’re filling up with food that is filled with water and fiber, and
takes up a lot of space in your stomach. And then before you know it, you’re like, well, but
you’re actually hungry.Yes.
[Sawyer]
Yeah.
[Giacomo]
Yeah.
[Sawyer]
Yeah. The way I describe this is, is to people is like, there’s two main physiological functions of
your body to like, cue hunger. And one is that you have mechanical sensors kind of in your
stress sensors in your stomach to tell if it’s full or not, right?
So you got that that thing telling you if you’re hungry, it’s like, oh, my stomach feels empty, I
should probably fill it with something, right. But then there’s also the hormonal hunger, there’s
leptin and ghrelin, which control okay, hormonally, am I in a good place for hunger. So you
know, those things are being controlled by things like blood sugar, and things by like fat loss,
like those will ramp up those hunger hormones and decrease the satisfaction hormone.
And then you end up being really hungry, even though your stomach is full. And people are like,
oh, that’s not right. That that can’t be healthy, right?
Like I’ve never been full and also hungry. That’s, that’s what it’s like when you’re hormonally
hungry, when you’ve lost some body fat, and your body’s starting to notice. And you’re like,
wait, how do I stop this?
So it’s not a bad thing. If you’re trying to lose weight, and you’re probably going to notice a little
bit of hunger, like we do when when we’re coaching people, there’s a little bit of hunger
involved with with losing weight. But if you’re not in control of that, if you don’t really know,
how the heck do I get not hungry?
It’s because you might know how to get full in one sense, but not the other, right? You might
know how to fill up your stomach with food. But you don’t know how to be in control of how
many calories your body actually needs.
And you’re just kind of falling where the chips, the chips are just falling where they may and
you’re eating this amount of calories on average. And it’s not enough or it’s too much or it’s
right, just right. You’re kind of just not in control of that number.
[Giacomo]
Basically, it’s not a fun conversation to have it yourself. It’s not a fun conversation to process
when other you’re having it with other people. And your mind starts to wander with all kinds ofunreasonable things because you’re looking for an answer.
Why are you feeling like this? Who’s blaming a plant based diet? What are you lacking?
Did you make a mistake doing this? Are you whatever, just not enjoying the way that you’re
eating? And people come up with all these reasons because they’re unaware of what’s going on
when it can be something as simple as you’re just not.
[Sawyer]
Yeah. And that’s where that’s fertile ground for grifters to come in and be like, yeah, this is why
vegan diets aren’t healthy and everybody’s crazy who thinks they are. So anyway, whatever.
But I think we’ve talked that one enough. What do you think? You cover that one?
Okay.
[Giacomo]
We can keep going. Each one of these, I feel like they’re going to tie into the other. So we don’t
have to.
[Sawyer]
Yeah.
[Giacomo]
Yeah.
[Sawyer]
This one is pretty similar. It’s not eating enough protein. Similar concept.
You’re not in control. You’re not aware of how much protein you’re eating. In a standard
American diet, you’re probably going to be getting enough protein.
I mean, for health purposes, not for optimal bodybuilding purposes, but for health purposes
without really having to think about it at all. So people who are transitioning to a vegan diet
might just think, oh, it’s probably going to be the same thing. It could be depending on what
you gravitate towards eating.
But again, you’re just letting the chips fall where you don’t really actually know. And so if you’re
never tracking these things or at least to get a baseline, you don’t necessarily need to track
forever. But if you don’t have a baseline of like, oh, this is about how much protein I’m getting
and this is good, you might end up losing muscle and being like, what the heck just happened?
It’s the vegan diet. Oh, my gosh. So it’s another one of those things that I think protein andcalories should be at the forefront of people’s minds pretty much a lot of the time from a
30,000 foot point of view.
But especially when you’re transitioning to some new kind of way of eating that you’re not
really sure if those are going to be adequate. Those are really the big rocks that we need to
move when we’re changing things. I don’t know.
Would you agree with that? Would you add anything else to that? I’m curious.
[Giacomo]
That’s such an easy one. I like seeing those who overcorrect and when I’m getting in too much
protein, I like to brag about that being like, see, you could do it. But yes, that is a common
mistake.
When someone is making any sort of dietary change, they wind up being too fearful of making
the wrong decisions. So they just don’t need enough of the right things. Or they go in the
opposite direction, they just eat too much of what they think is right, and they overdo it.
But most people are stuck somewhere in between. And they’re just trying to make a dietary
shift, right. And when you are, let’s say getting in, I don’t know, 1800 calories, and you need to
get in 135 grams of protein, but you’re getting in 80.
That’s a problem. When you’re taking in 2800 calories, or 2600 calories, whatever, and you need
to get in 165 grams of protein, and you’re getting in 130. That’s a problem.
And that little amount, you know, you hate to throw it out there when someone comes to your
proteins, they’re like, this is my dilemma. How come I’m not building muscle like I used to
before I was eating? You’re like, well, you need about 25 to 50 grams more protein, and it’s
probably closer to the lower number.
And they’re like, really? I’m like, yeah, really. And it’s hard to say that directly to somebody,
because it’s, it’s one of those things where the answer is usually the simplest thing right in front
of you.
But as human beings, we’re complicating everything. And there’s complexity in it. And you’re
trying to feel your way through something.
And it takes time to learn something. And if you don’t have this information, like we’re giving it
to you right now, right in front of you, and you’re getting mixed information from the place,
you just don’t know what you’re doing, you can make that unfortunate misstep for a long
period of time. And it can cost you several pounds of lean body mass and several years of
frustration, where you’re unwilling to even walk, think back to what you could have done
differently.
And before you know it, you’re not, you know, a plant based diet wasn’t for you or whatever. It’sfrustrating.
[Sawyer]
I yeah, I can see that. I think, I think if people don’t get anything else out of this podcast, it’s
like, okay, make sure you know, that you’re getting enough protein and calories, no matter
what your dietary preferences and like what you’re doing things are, those are some of the
things that I think need to be at least for fitness purposes, you might be able to skate by with
health without health complications by not like knowing these things, if you’re eating a
relatively balanced diet. But I think if you’re if you’re frustrated by not getting fitness results,
you need to know where those things are averaging around the protein and the calories. I think
those are some of the biggest things that if you overlook them, and you’re having problems
there, but you just don’t realize it, you’re just going to struggle, like, indefinitely, there’s no
amount of like tips and tricks videos you can watch until, until you’re, you know, filling the
plugging those holes, those are giant holes in your ship, you know what I mean that you need
to need to give attention to,
[Giacomo]
well, what are the reasons why people don’t get enough protein, the ones that come to mind
for me, are that they’re trying to find foods that they enjoy. And they’re reframing the way they
think about what’s on their plate.
So where they would normally have chicken breast or steak or salmon or whatever. Now they’re
like, well, wait a minute, like tofu and seitan. And this is not so they have that disconnect there.
And they start to whatever. And then the other thing is that they don’t understand that they can
find a little bit of protein, everything in it’s less about the overt protein, that’s just pure protein
is on your plate, like you’re going to get balance of it. But I’m curious to hear your thoughts.
[Sawyer]
Yeah, I think. I mean, for like, in my case, it was just not being aware. Like I didn’t, I had no idea
what seitan was.
I had no idea what TVP was. I didn’t know what tofu was, but I didn’t know how to make it. I
didn’t think I would like it.
So I didn’t even, that wasn’t even my first thought. I was just like, oh, lentils have protein. Like I
literally would just go down the grocery aisle and like look for things that were vegan that had
protein in them.
Like that’s how little guidance I had. But I think there’s so much information now that people
probably have different issues, right? They probably are just not finding ways that they enjoy to
eat protein or something like that.But I’m not really sure. I think a lot of people, it’s just different. It depends on what circles
you’ve been running in, if you know other vegans or not.
And I think you got to take it on a case-by-case basis. But I think a big thing is, if you’re
someone who likes to have those distinct macro nutrient food groups, the chicken and the rice
and the broccoli kind of people, then okay, then do one-to-one change of like seitan and rice
and broccoli. It’s like, it’s so easy.
But if you’re someone who really wants to do like the more whole foods approach and you
really want to have all kinds of fiber now, like all the time, then you could, yeah, I think you’re
right. It’s going to look more like, they’re going to look more like Buddha bowl type things
where you got the beans and the rice and the salsa and the, you know what I mean? And that’s,
there’s a billion ways to do it.
So I think people just need to get familiarized with how they’re going to enjoy it most and
what’s going to hit that number for them, that protein and calorie number that we’re talking
about before. So.
[Giacomo]
I feel like people try to get healthier. And as they’re trying to get healthier, that the specific type
of person, when they stumble upon veganism, and then they, their goal is to get healthier, for
some reason, some of them fear protein, or they obsess about foods that are nutrient dense,
and they’re forgetting the fact that they have to focus on protein as well. And then they just
wind up unintentionally not getting a protein or thinking that they can’t.
[Sawyer]
I think there’s a lot of fear mongering around like soy and, you know, stuff like that, which
needs to go away. And I think like, like, you know, the, the vegan meats, like get a lot of scare
tactics. People, people talk about them and like the influencer space a lot.
So, I mean, what can you do though? I think at the end of the day, people will develop more of
an understanding of this stuff over time and hopefully be less afraid of it as they realize like, oh,
people are eating this, and it’s really not that crazy to have soy every day or things like that. I
think, I think it’ll become more normalized and less scary.
But at first, you just need to be okay with the idea of, I need to try new foods, I need to be open
to new ideas, because if I just stick rigidly to, I’m only getting my protein from beans, or I’m
only going to be getting, you know, eating salads from now on or something like that, rigidity
of that kind is just ready to break, like at the first sign of inconvenience, at the first health
problem, because it’s going to happen if you’re too rigid in your approach, it’s just going to fall
apart at some point, you know.
[Giacomo]I think we’ve had enough on the protein one. Why don’t we move on to the next one on your
list with trying not to eat any processed foods or even minimally processed ones. Where would
you head out on that one?
[Sawyer]
Yeah, sure. I mean, we already kind of talked about that. I know.
I kind of just said it, which is like, yeah, eating only unprocessed foods is generally pretty
healthy, but there are issues with doing that, especially if you take it to the extreme of, I’m not
going to have any minimally processed foods like soy milk or tofu, which are really helpful for
like hitting calcium numbers or hitting, you know what I mean, like hitting enough protein. So
there’s just, there’s going to be problems if, and it’s not to say that you couldn’t do it. It’s just
going to be in, especially in this modern world where not everybody’s just emphasizing diet to
the max, it’s going to become so inconvenient, in my opinion, that you won’t be able to keep it
up.
Especially with like social events and traveling and stuff like that.
[Giacomo]
So I think- What’s the purpose behind minimally processed foods and looking to not get them
in?
[Sawyer]
Yeah, I know. I think it’s a dogmatic thing where people are worried about any kind of
processing at all. Like they see it as a black and white thing.
They’re like, oh, processed bad, unprocessed good. And so everything they can get is going to
be unprocessed. It’s going to be all organic.
It’s going to be all like that. And if they don’t do that, then they have demonized it, right? But it’s
more of a gradient than that.
It’s a spectrum. And if you think that eating a Pop-Tart is the same as drinking some
unsweetened soy milk or something like that, then you have been effectively marketed to, my
friend, because they’re very different profile nutritionally. And also, so what I tell people like
that is, look, there are lots of scary mechanistic data that we could go into.
Like, oh, we gave rats 5,000 milligrams of red dye 40 or whatever, and they got this issue. Sure,
yeah, that happens. But you could also drink enough water and die too, right?
So something being natural and not made in the lab doesn’t necessarily make it healthy or
unhealthy. What we need to do is rely on data that gives us health outcomes. And so when
somebody says, oh, I wouldn’t eat that, that’s poison, you can come back and say, well, whatreally matters, if you’re looking at the data, is one, overall dietary pattern, and two, when you
put something into the context of an overall ecosystem, but it’s like a tiny, tiny little fraction of
it, like for instance, like sweeteners or something like that, non-calorie sweeteners, they might
have some deleterious effects. But overall, if you’re eliminating the need or the use of like full
sugar things and things that we know have worse health outcomes in higher quantities, then
overall, it’s a net benefit. And so I think people need to stop thinking in black and white, and
they need to think of overall dietary pattern and what’s going to shift it in the right direction,
what’s going to shift it in the wrong direction.
Because a lot of times, and I have a lot of clients that come to me and they have these very
specific protocols they try to stick to, because they’re like, this is the perfect diet, but then
practically, it doesn’t work. They try to apply it, and then it breaks every couple of weeks,
because they haven’t actually given themselves enough flexibility, enough room to move in
their little food prison of a cage, they can’t even turn around. So the second they get tested with
it, it just breaks apart, and they don’t stick to it anymore.
So you have to build into the system, an ability to move and you have a little bit of things that
you enjoy a little bit more, a little bit more indulgent, a little more flexible, otherwise, you’re not
going to stick to it. And also, it just doesn’t make sense to be that rigid, because in the context
of health outcome data, you don’t have to be perfect to get really good health results. Sorry, I’m
a little bit on my soapbox here.
[Giacomo]
But I’m like, oh, no, I, it’s very interesting to hear how you think about this stuff and following
completely, and I have very similar opinions. And I while you’re talking about the data and it
going over how it all makes sense, I think about how it affects people, and their psyche and
how they wrap their head around it. And what they’re instead of just trying to understand like,
what’s going to lead to you getting healthier long term, what’s going to lead to you enjoying
food more long term, some people are so outcome driven, that they they get lost in the
process.
And they actually, I don’t want to do more harm than good, they slow down their potential to
actually get the outcome you’re looking for, because there’s just so focused on how healthy can
I be? How long can I live? How can I do this just right?
This is why I’m doing this in the first place. And they they don’t understand that if their process
causes them to resent foods that they’re going to have anyway, and feel ashamed to eat them.
And that that’s, and again, I don’t want to say I don’t want to be judging and say it’s a form of
restriction.
Obviously, it is. However, it’s again, you get lost in the process, you blame yourself for not being
able to get the outcome you’re looking for, you justify continuing to try to go over and over and
over again, and you’re stuck in this endless loop. Yeah.[Sawyer]
You’re right to think about the psychology of it all, because it’s it’s very hard to communicate to
people. What I what I find to be have some success with is to relate it to an area that those
people understand really well, because there’s almost something, you know, that somebody
understands really, really well. They spend a lot of years like really wrapping their heads around
it.
And with nutrition, it’s very hard for people to understand there’s a lot of degrees of nuance
there. But if you can get them to relate to another area of nuance, where they’re like, oh, yeah,
it’s not that simple. Like don’t, don’t like issue this school of thought or that school of thought
because there’s truth in every in each of them and implant that into nutrition and can just kind
of say, hey, it’s hard to describe right now, but just know that, yes, there’s a there’s an ideal and
like there’s there’s some things to strive for.
But then there’s also some concessions we should make, because if we don’t, then it all
unravels when you’re trying to be too ideal, too perfectionist. So in short, just don’t let
perfection be the enemy of progress, basically. Exactly.
[Giacomo]
If I try to what usually gets people to get it is I ask them if they’re going to be eating like this for
the next or forever, or in five years, you see yourself, the answer, it’s rhetorical. And it gets
them further along instead of it becoming a debate or an argument or them not wanting to
take accountability for what they’re going through, because they feel whatever about it. Yeah, I
think it’s appropriate.
[Sawyer]
Yeah, I think that’s a great segue into another one, which we’re going to skip now. But the next
one, which is becoming a disciple of of one person who is yeah, they’re just like, this is this is
the person that understands the best and their recommendations are the best always, you
know, it’s it’s become a religion for them. It’s become dogma.
And when that happens, it doesn’t even necessarily mean that the person is wrong about
everything. There are certain people that I believe more than others in that, you know, they’re
more like fact based than others. But I think they even if they are, you know, based in reality,
like some of these plant based people that make a lot of sense and a lot of things they say, they
can sometimes fall short in the psychology aspect that we’re just talking about, where they’re
saying, hey, just do this, just do that.
And and a lot of it isn’t realistic for some people. And so people fall short and then they keep
buying the products and trying to get to a certain like standard that’s really just not for them
and end up doing maybe more harm than good in some cases. So I think, yeah, I think I think
the the disciple, you know, type like people who are like, wow, this person is the best nutritionperson.
I’m going to come to them for all my nutrition questions. I think it becomes a little excessive
and it can really start to turn into like putting somebody on a pedestal and I’m just this lowly,
you know, I don’t know anything and they know everything. And I have to just strive to be like
them kind of thing, you know, but that doesn’t take into account real life, you know, doesn’t
take into account real life.
[Giacomo]
No. And the hardest part is their information is sound. What they’re saying is rooted in science,
their formulas are possible, whatever it is that they’re, they’re saying, hey, look, this kind of
lifestyle, in a lot of ways, they’re arguably quite healthy, if you can live like that comfortably, but
there are a lot of holes in it.
And there isn’t a one size fits all kind of thing. And if you’re not able to take more, not just with
a grain of salt, if you’re not able to take all the good information, distill it down and create a
way to eat that works for you. And you’re trying, like you said, to hold and these, these are
iconic people.
These are doctors who have massive audiences, followings, with all kinds of support. And yeah,
there is something about the communal aspect to about belonging to something people we’re
social creatures, even those of us who are hermits and introverted, and don’t really need to
bounce off ideas with others. We’re social creatures by nature.
So if you hook on to an idea, and you’re digesting and processing on your own, it can be hard to
to step away from that, even if like somewhere deep down inside, you know, like I should
probably be thinking through this a little more.
[Sawyer]
Yeah, absolutely. I think that’s why all the names like the different names of the diets, like
people like to clown them because it’s like a tribe diet tribe or whatever. I might piss some
people off with this.
But like a good example of what we’re talking about is Dr. Greger. He has a lot of good
information. He has a huge following.
But a lot of his stuff is just a little unreachable for people. And also, I think he focuses a little too
much on some mechanistic data and kind of scares people and hypes people up, other people
up too much about certain things. Because when I was, sorry, my dog saw another dog, and
that is just not okay in his book.
So when I was just becoming vegan and learning about nutrition, and I discovered him, I
realized I had been listening to some of his videos, and I was liking what I was hearing, youknow, learning a lot. But then I also got, as I get more knowledgeable in nutrition, and met
some people who were plant-leaning, but not exclusively plant-based. And I was like, how is
that possible?
Because everything Dr. Greger says makes it so clear that plant-based eating is just the best.
It’s like there’s no comparable dietary pattern. It couldn’t even, you know what I mean?
That’s what it felt like to me. And the answer that I kept getting back was like, well, first of all,
the dietary pattern overall matters a lot. And just being plant-based doesn’t, you know, secure
your, you know, your place in heaven, I guess you could say.
And also, there’s a lot of nuance being left out here. Because if you zoom in on mechanistic
data, like Dr. Greger will talk about dripping the blood of, you know, or dripping milk into the
people or whatever, like just very mechanistic, tiny little, you know, non-results-driven data, like,
you know, in humans and like doing a protocol for a while, double-blind, placebo-controlled.
Anyway, when you do a lot of stuff like that, and you talk about it that way, it makes it seem, oh
my gosh, so clear that people should go vegan and should be eating this way.
And it almost becomes shameful or like bewildering that anybody would choose anything
different for health reasons or for fitness reasons. And I think that’s where you kind of, you’ve
incentivized people, but you’ve also gotten them, you’ve given them an amount of knowledge
that is enough for them just to be pissed off about stuff, but not to really understand like health
outcome data and how science works and how dietary patterns overall matter more than like
mechanistic data. So, I think he gets a good, he’s good at getting people riled up and like, you
know, moving in a direction that’s good, but I also think that he can tend to, and it’s hard,
granted, to educate people this much, but it’s one of those things where I think people are
more excited than they are educated about it.
I don’t know, do you agree with that?
[Giacomo]
It’s interesting how you describe the limitations there, the way that he, as far as the way he
mechanistically looks at stuff, like just enough to upset, but then it can become challenging and
complicated for that person to figure it out.
[Sawyer]
Yeah, not in every case. I think he has a lot of good health outcome data too, like, you know,
Adventist study type stuff, but I think there’s some cases where he gets a little over zealous in
presenting the data and it’s a little too mechanistic and so it kind of drives people to be like
more dogmatic than they need to be about like, this is really bad for you. You know what I
mean?
Like, they’re just like, like for instance, since I’ve become more educated and followed more likemore nutrition experts and things, you know, it’s become clear to me that for nutrition
purposes, low-fat dairy is really pretty benign in a lot of cases, unfortunately, and like same with
fish. You know, from an ethical standpoint, it’s abysmal, but from a nutrition standpoint, it’s not
that deleterious to include those things in certain quantities. But you would never know that
from watching Dr. Greger’s content because he never really gives credit where credit’s due, and
I think that not only does that push people in a dogmatic direction, but it also makes vegans
look unwilling to accept reality where we need to. Because I’m going into a whole other
tangent. I shouldn’t do that.
[Giacomo]
I get it. This is a little bit of a radical here, but it’s okay. I’m into it.
I’m here.
[Sawyer]
I’m following. I’ll summarize it with this. I’ll just say, look, we as vegans need to accept science
and the data that comes out, regardless of how it makes us feel ethically, because I’m an ethical
vegan.
I’m not hiding that. We all have bias, but I do think we need to be honest about when our bias is
not fitting the nutrition data, is not fitting the ethical data, or whatever. You know what I mean?
So we have to be honest, because otherwise, we are just crazy to everybody else because we
can’t accept reality. So that’s kind of where…
[Giacomo]
Right. But then you can go back to easy lifestyle examples. Well, sure.
But if someone really going to have those foods that are okay in small quantities, probably not.
And over the course of a lifetime, that stuff builds up. Yeah, true.
So you can think about it that way too.
[Sawyer]
Yeah. It’s a dietary pattern thing, and I guess we’ll never have the most data, and everybody
has to weigh the risk. It’s like alcohol.
Hopefully, nobody thinks it’s healthy. There’s a lot of flat-earther type people out there. But
alcohol is not healthy, and everybody has to weigh the risk of like, how much do I want to
include this?
What’s the cost benefit? And how much risk am I really incurring by drinking it? I don’t think
we’re doing any favors to anybody, for example, by saying alcohol will absolutely kill you.And I don’t think we’re doing any other favors to anybody by saying, ah, it’s really not that big
of a deal. Neither of those help. You know what I mean?
There’s no nuance in that. And so I think as vegans, we need to also embrace the nuance and
say, look, this probably is not as good as this, but this is better than this. And if you need
something like this in your life, then I would go with that.
You know what I mean? So there’s a little bit of nuance that needs to be added to this
conversation. I don’t think some of these kind of celebrity doctors do a lot of that.
I think they just focus on the ideal and people get a little bit too dogmatic about it, is all I’m
saying.
[Giacomo]
And they speak to certain audiences as opposed to broader audiences, which I can respect if
you want to help people reverse disease, fight disease, speak to a certain demographic age-
wise. But when you take it as gospel across the board for all kinds of people, you know, that’s
when it becomes problematic too, in terms of the dogmatic kind of stuff where people look at
the…
[Sawyer]
Yeah, imagine, I mean, that’s happened in the fitness community too. We try to talk to people
about veganism and they’re like, oh, you mean like that guy who refuses to eat any like, you
know, processed foods or whatever? And you’re like, how would you do that on a 4,000 calorie
day diet as a bodybuilder or whatever?
We lose people if we don’t have any give, if we’re just focusing on like one thing, which is like
human health, you know, whatever. But anyway, we’re we don’t need to go further into that.
I’m just thinking that’s my conversation or the contribution I want to make to the conversation
at this point.
[Giacomo]
Where do you want to jump around over here?
[Sawyer]
So we did skip one, which is not supplementing with B12. That’s one of those things where
people, I think, get a little bit too bogged down in the fact that they have to supplement
anything maybe in some cases. But it’s just like one of those things where it’s like, well, the
animals that people are eating are supplementing with B12 and it’s because they need to and
we need to.
So it’s really just do you supplement it or do you eat something, someone that’s beensupplemented?
[Giacomo]
Well, if you are getting B12 from your food that was enriched with it before you were vegan,
why wouldn’t you continue to enrich your food and or supplement with B12 after the fact?
You’re not getting your B12 from drinking raw milk. You’re not getting your B12 from eating
raw or cooked meat that was once raw that is not like you’re getting your B12 from foods that
are enriched.
That’s how you’re not B12 deficient. So if you change over and you’re eating more fruits and
vegetables and probably less processed foods and the processed foods you’re eating or not
don’t have B12 in it and everyone is at risk of B12, but B12 and vegans become a target for B12
deficiency. And so they take this approach like, oh, no, it’s fine.
I have something to prove. I can be vegan and I can be healthy. I don’t need a supplement.
So you’re sitting here trying to prove something and you’re going to wind up hurting yourself in
the process. And everyone looks foolish, unfortunately. And it’s a crying shame because again,
across the board, everyone needs to supplement with B12.
If I wasn’t a fitness coach for vegans, I would still be like, can you please supplement with B12?
Pretty please. Don’t tell me you don’t supplement.
Don’t tell me you’re a purist and you don’t supplement. And even if you are, that’s fine. But
please get a B12 because if your stores get that deficient and you have brain damage, now
there’s really no way.
There’s really no coming back from that.
[Sawyer]
Absolutely. I 100% agree with everything you just said. And I feel like it’s just one of those
things where people need to stop getting hung up on, oh, this is natural or this isn’t natural, or
people are going to think I’m not eating a complete diet or whatever.
We need to stop being so anti-intellectual, so anti-science, and just follow what the data has
shown over and over and over again, and supplement with B12. There’s really no shame in
following what the science says and then doing everything else that you already believe in.
[Giacomo]
Think about where food’s coming from because you’re getting your nutrients from plants and
you just are no matter how you eat. We’re getting superfoods these days to get our nutrients
in, correct? Why are we getting superfoods in to get our nutrients?Because we’re not producing crops, we’re not producing food for ourselves. Even when we
plant food for ourselves, it’s hard to get mineral rich soil and vitamins getting into those plants
and those fruits that are going to feed you properly. This has happened over hundreds of
thousands of many thousands of years.
It’s just a consequence of us populating the earth and overpopulating the earth and what we
haven’t done to take care of it. It just makes no sense. You got to get that stuff in and
superfoods, I would argue, are not enough either.
[Sawyer]
Yeah, it’s interesting. I’ve looked barely into the whole soil depletion thing. There’s some people
pushing back on that idea, so it’s interesting to me.
In the case of B12, to be laser focused on that, in the case of B12, B12 is found in the soil. Our
food is really, really washed. If you’re not supplementing B12 and you’re not eating an animal
that’s been supplemented with B12, you’re not getting B12 and you need it.
Just to be as clear as possible, please supplement with B12. Even if you’re eating enriched foods
with some B12, you still need to supplement B12. Yeah, 100%.
Okay, cool. Now we’re being clear about that because I know somebody’s going to try to say,
well, I had soy milk the other day and I had some B12 supplement. That’s not enough.
[Giacomo]
We can debate this forever, but while we’re debating it, please take care of your health.
[Sawyer]
Yes, yes. Go fall on the side of caution and then do your research after that. Okay, so we talked
about the becoming a disciple.
Okay, here’s two we can actually group together. Avoiding gluten without celiac disease and
avoiding soy. Those are two that I think are commonly done.
Sometimes doctors perpetuate some of these things, which is weird. I have listened to many
experts on thyroid health and all kinds of things where people are worried about soy’s
influence. The thing that keeps coming back to me is that these phytoestrogens are in all kinds
of plants.
They’re not just in soy. For people to specifically avoid soy for fear of estrogenic effects, they
would have to avoid a whole lot of other plants to do the same thing, such as apples and
flaxseeds and coffee and things like that that have a pretty high concentration of
phytoestrogens as well. That stuff doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me, but it still shows up
in the medical field.I still hear about doctors saying, hey, avoid soy. Is that what your opinion is too?
[Giacomo]
Doctors typically are not good nutritionists. Doctors do not make good nutritionists in my
opinion. Many, unfortunately.
[Sawyer]
That’s the other thing is every plant-based dietician I’ve ever talked to has not said, hey, you
need to avoid soy. They really are pretty pro-soy in general. It seems like there’s just been a lot
of fear-mongering by the industry or whatever it is about soy, probably because it’s the next
best thing to meet in terms of protein source.
I’d say it’s actually better for the reason that it’s a package deal and you can’t have meat
without cholesterol and saturated fat. At any rate, soy is such a good source of protein that I
think it’s a threat. Maybe that’s why it’s been so railed against by a lot of different places.
At any rate, that and gluten seem to be demonized by a lot of different communities. Gluten
more so. Yeah, you think gluten more so?
Why do you think that is?
[Giacomo]
I think it was marketing. You know how over the past 20, 30 years, we’ve had the low-carb
movement. We’ve had the sugar-free and high-fiber and this and that.
I’m trying to think of other trends when it comes to how to market foods to get people to buy
more things that are supposedly heart-healthy or diet-friendly, whatever. Gluten-free foods
over the years were something that you could have people buy and spend more money on. I
think that’s what it was really, sell more food to people that was packaged up or whatever.
Then people just took it and ran with it, as people often do, with ideas without trying to think
about it.
[Sawyer]
Yeah. It’s interesting. Obviously, there’s a legit source for this, which is celiacs or being gluten
intolerant and having actual life-threatening consequences to having gluten.
Then sometimes just very uncomfortable consequences to having gluten. There’s legitimate
reasons for avoiding gluten. Especially me, coming from being in California a lot, I had a lot of
friends in a lot of circles that avoid gluten without a diagnosis.
It’s hard to say for sure, but a lot of times I think that they’re just like, I felt better a couple of
times than when I avoided gluten when I didn’t have it versus when I did have it. Then they justhave formed this association in their brain with gluten is bloating or gluten is deleterious
somehow. Maybe that’s true.
I don’t know. I think it could be at least some degree psychological. It’s a bummer because I
think that’s another source of protein that a lot of people miss out on.
Imagine no soy, that means no tofu, no tempeh, no TVP, no soy curls. Then also if you’re doing
no gluten, that means no seitan. You really don’t have many sources of protein at that point
that are going to be commercially available that aren’t going to make you feel like you have to
eat a thousand buckets of it to get enough protein.
If you avoid both of those things, especially, it’s going to become all of a sudden very difficult to
get enough protein without feeling like you have to just shovel beans all day long.
[Giacomo]
Then you’re going to have a hard time digesting the foods that you’re not used to digesting,
whatever they are, and you’re going to say, see, I was right. Confirmation bias. Or you’re going
to be trying to figure out how to be able to have a healthy gut and healthy digestive system,
and you’re dealing with problems with your digestive system.
Or worse, you’re dealing with bigger health problems that are causing you distress with what
you eat, but you’re blaming specific kinds of foods as opposed to whatever it is that you’re
dealing with. You think that gluten is the answer, and now you have a negative association and
a bad feeling about whatever gluten is.
[Sawyer]
I think without a diagnosis, you have to be very careful. Without a diagnosis, you have to be
very careful not to have the list of things you avoid become too long for health and fitness
reasons. I think ethical reasons, totally different, especially when they do studies on that.
They figure out, okay, people who go back on veganism are the people that are doing it for
health reasons. They think, oh, this is the only way to be healthy, and then they discover, oh, I
don’t want to do this. But for ethical reasons, makes total sense.
It’s like, that’s not food to you. So whatever. Anyways, yeah, I completely agree.
I think it’s one of those things where people can start to form associations in their brain before
they actually have any evidence for it. They’ve just kind of said, you know, I feel better
subjectively, so I’m just going to go with this. And then before they know it, you’re kind of
orthorexic because you have so many things that are on the no list for you just because one
time you had a scary thought or feeling after eating it.
So I definitely don’t think people should be too reactive with that. But on a related note, one of
the other, I’m trying to do things that are related to other things.[Giacomo]
They’re all interwoven.
[Sawyer]
Yeah, they’re pretty close. But we only have three left, and the one that’s closest to those is not
getting acclimated to the increase in fiber that you’re likely going to have when you go vegan.
[Giacomo]
Oh, okay, that can be uncomfortable. And that can be a shock when you’re getting in the
average, the conversations that would, when you start to consume fitness, whatever, and
you’re flying the wall for other people’s conversations, and they talk about how their clients
have these issues that they can’t get them to get in work more than 25 grams of protein, or
they’re like making sure they get in 30, 35, that doesn’t make any difference.
I’m like, how do you live? It’s crazy to me. And then you understand when someone changes
the way that they’re eating and they go vegan when their fiber on average more than doubles
in that usage, then you can understand.
[Sawyer]
Yeah, oh my gosh. Yeah, that actually happened to me. One of the things that happened to me
was I was not aware of how much fiber I was having before.
And then when I went vegan, like I said, I was trying to get it all from like lentils and pastas and
stuff. So that was meant that I was eating a lot more whole foods and a lot more fiber. But also,
I was under the impression, because this is how dumb I was when I went vegan, I was under
the impression that plant based proteins were so inferior that I needed to eat extra.
I needed to eat like 200 grams of protein and like 4000 plus calories. I was literally eating like
for the first week of being vegan. I was trying to go for like 4400 calories or something like that.
[Giacomo]
Sounds like fun, Sawyer. Sign me up.
[Sawyer]
I was running to the bathroom like five or six times a day at that point, because I didn’t realize,
oh, snap, I’m eating, I’m going from eating like maybe 20 grams of fiber a day, give or take as a
standard American, you know, dieter to someone who’s probably eating well over 100, like very
quickly. And I’ll tell you what, my stomach noticed, my digestive system noticed. And so I had
that tip for people when they first go vegan is, especially if you’re tracking, like you’re already
tracking things, if you’re doing things how we’re saying, check how much fiber you regularlyeat, versus how much you’re trying to introduce now.
Because if it’s like in the gym, you try if you have never squatted before you load up 405 and
then you unrack that, it’s going to crush you like a Coke can. So you need to acclimate your
body to the fiber that you’re taking in. It doesn’t mean that it’s a bad thing.
Just because it’s stressful, just because it hurts if you do too much of it, does not mean that
fiber is a bad thing. And you definitely need to have it. It’s one of the most beneficial
compounds you can take in.
So just get, my advice to people is just get acclimated to the fiber that you’re trying to increase
progressively, like in the gym.
[Giacomo]
Yeah. I hadn’t answered that. I like that a lot.
[Sawyer]
Great. I’m glad. I’m always, I’m just trying to impress you all the time, Giacomo.
That’s pretty much my whole job. Okay. Two more things.
Not trying new foods. Do you agree with that one? Do you think people stay too rigid when they
go vegan or no?
[Giacomo]
This is an interesting one. I’m getting a little pushback on this. What do you think?
[Sawyer]
Well, what I was thinking when I wrote that down was I think people are a little bit more averse
to like, say, I mean, this is certain people, right? Certain people are picky readers than others,
but they’ll say a little more averse to like, I don’t know, say tempeh or something. They’re like,
well, what is that?
What’s the white stuff on the outside of the beans? Like there’s stuff like, it’s just a little bit
weird to them, I think. Yeah.
But you know, it’s understandable in some cases, this is just new stuff, but you just need to go
in with a mindset of like, hey, I need to be open to stuff. I need to try new things because if I
just stick to, you know, what I know is vegan and what I know I already like is vegan, you’re
probably going to be eating french fries, Oreos, chips, and salads, maybe. You know what I
mean?
Like that’s not a whole lot of stuff. Because I mean, depending on the family and the placeyou’re coming from diet-wise, you might not even know or like enjoy things that are vegan yet.
So you need to be more open to like, hey, my diet, like the things that I’m going to try, different
cultures, foods, different like textures, different flavors.
I should be open to this right now because the more things that I can find that I’m like, this is
really good and it fits my, you know, my goals that I’m going to have that for, you know, the
rest of my life, I’m going to know, hey, that’s a good source, that’s a good source. You know
what I mean? And the more options people have for that, the more sustainable this stuff
becomes, the more enjoyable it becomes.
I just think it’s such an important point. So even if people are okay at it, I think it’s still worth
mentioning, hey, just keep trying new foods, you know?
[Giacomo]
I think I see where you’re going with this because maybe the blanket advice when someone
makes a change, the safest way to look at it is to veganize what’s on your plate, take how you’re
already eating and change it. But then if you get stuck, and you’re not truly enjoying the variety
of foods that you have access to, when you go out to eat, when you’re sharing food with family,
when you move something different, you can feel locked in and maybe have some regrets be
like, ah, I used to eat this way. Now I eat this way.
I don’t, I’m not truly comfortable like this. And I kind of feel trapped and I don’t have options.
Where if you really start to look around, you can have you have access to all kinds of different
foods and different things that you shop for food that you can make.
That’s my favorite thing to do is to get people to take ownership to what’s on their plate by
saying, hey, why don’t you make up some recipes, we can keep this simple, we can veganize
what’s on your plate and make it just the way that it was before. Why don’t you try and make us
some interesting stuff, because then you start to understand what these different foods are
that you’re a little apprehensive to try. When you actually make them on your own, you want to
feel proud, you want to be learning, you want to be enjoying.
Even if you’re someone who doesn’t like to cook, even if you’re someone who’s not going to do
it regularly, even if you’re not in the mood to do it, it is something that is going to get you to a
place where you’re going to be a lot more open minded, we’re trying different kinds of food. So
my favorite thing to do is to get people to cook because when you can control what you eat like
that by preparing it, you start to be a lot more open, you start to be less fearful of foods for all
kinds of reasons. Whether it’s like, what if I don’t like the way this tastes?
What if this food ingredient list is written in a way that I can’t understand? What if there’s
something I think is actually bad for me on this food list? What if it was in a package and I don’t
want to bother and I don’t want to buy something in a package?
I mean, whatever, whatever it is. What if I don’t like this kind of cuisine? I’m not in the mood togo to a restaurant like that, like make stuff, enjoy it.
And then going circling back to the whole process thing, like, you’re not going to sit there and
criticize yourself for putting something into a food processor and saying, this was too
processed. But you might do that if it was in a package and it was handy to or is prepared to at
a store. But if you make it on your own, and you can make the connection and it’s no longer
reach where I put something in a food processor, it’s not out of the ground.
And it’s, I loved it because I made it. Now you have a good feeling about and you you’re not
scared of whatever food you find that wasn’t like plucked on the tree. And you can go enjoy the
foods like that.
[Sawyer]
I love that, man. That makes a lot of sense. I mean, that’s like a two for one.
It’s like try new foods and also make new foods because that gives you ownership of the whole
process. And you have options all over the place. I think one of the things that people fear when
they first go vegan is I’m going to miss things.
I’m going to miss out on stuff. I’m once you it’s like it’s like traveling to a new country and
realizing, oh, they have this thing that I like back home, but it’s a little different. It’s just a little
different, but it still crashes the same itch.
You know what I mean? That might be the case. There’s a lot of one to one things now,
honestly, in the vegan world.
Like I don’t miss burgers at all because to me, the Impossible Burger is like is a burger like that
is I don’t feel like there’s any difference really to me except for the ethical implications. The
other side of that, though, is there’s going to be things that like, I don’t know, certain, you
know, family dish or sushi or something that you really liked that might not ever be exactly the
same. But you’ve got a vegan version now that tastes, you know, scratches the same itch.
You know what I mean? And I think everybody needs to have that, especially for things that are
more emotional, like I love this thing. You need to have an alternative, either whether you make
it or you found something that is packaged and you like it or a restaurant or whatever.
You need to have something for everything. And it might not be exactly one to one
replacement. And so you need to be open to new stuff, because if you make it, whether you
make it or you go out and you experience at a restaurant or whatever, you’re going to find stuff
that you’re like, wow, this is just as good, if not better.
And I’m healthier when I’m doing it. And I feel better about it because ethically, like, you just
need to go out and try it, though. That’s the whole thing.
Like, go out and try new things. That’s the big, that’s this tip, right? Just be open minded, trynew things.
[Giacomo]
Yeah, for sure. I think we’ve pretty much covered everything for this episode, unless you have
any other ideas in mind. Closing thoughts, parting thoughts?
[Sawyer]
I guess, well, the last one actually we did, we didn’t do is being too hard, being too hard on
yourself for mistakes. That can just be summed up as like, just don’t, don’t treat it like a life or
death thing for you. It is a journey.
It’s a process. I didn’t go vegan overnight. It was like a several month thing.
I think most people that’s the typical thing. So just be patient with yourself and like, be
persistent, but be patient with yourself and then get learn where you need to learn, get
education where you need to get education, because you can’t just like will yourself to get
better at something. You have to go out and seek new information and guidance from other
people and things like that.
[Giacomo]
I feel like that could be hard if someone had their act mostly together before they went vegan,
nutritionally, and they had the right body composition and had a relatively healthy relationship
with food, and they go vegan and they have to give it time and not be hard on themselves and
not come to the conclusion, even if they’re going to get healthy or long term. So what would
you do with somebody like that?
[Sawyer]
Well, that actually describes my situation pretty good. Like I was already pretty healthy. I was
pretty fit when I went vegan.
[Giacomo]
But your reasons are ethical, though. Let’s say if that person’s reasons they were health based,
what would you do that?
[Sawyer]
Okay, health based. Well, I guess you’d have to look more into the future and say, what are the
things hereditarily that I am at risk for? And what am I trying to prevent?
So that you could say, well, okay, I don’t need to do it right this second to prevent these long
term things. But if I’m doing it for health reasons is probably because of the long term benefits
of a plant based diet. So I need to look into the future and say, well, this is going to lower mysaturated fat intake on a daily basis.
So I know I’m going to have protection against heart disease that way, you know, stuff like that.
So I think getting more educated about the nutrition benefits of it long term, and again, how
it’s a dietary pattern overall that matters, not the like, oh, I had this one thing one time, I’m a
bad person kind of thing. That’s, that’s where I think it would come together.
So focusing on the overall dietary pattern, and then again, finding those replacements for
things, you know, maybe you like a regular burger right now, but then you eventually start
liking an impossible burger, that’s an upgrade. But then you could even take it further and say,
okay, well, I’m going to make my own burgers, it’s going to be super low saturated fat, but I’m
going to find a way to make it really tasty, unprocessed, like you could go as far as you want in
that direction, but you need to start somewhere. And, and that means you’re probably gonna
make some mistakes along the way, you know, so.
[Giacomo]
Fair, I like that. I like that a lot. Good answer.
[Sawyer]
Thanks, man. Well, you know, we’re pretty similar. So I feel like we’re just, whenever we give
each other compliments, it’s just kind of patting ourselves on the back too, you know, it’s kind
of funny.
[Giacomo]
Anything else you want to talk about?
[Sawyer]
No, man, I think that was a pretty conclusive, or a pretty, pretty good list. And hopefully we did
all those subjects justice. And that was a little bit rapid fire, but I think covered the main, main
points, right?
[Giacomo]
Yeah, I’m hoping that by listening to this episode, you’re armed to help others make fewer
mistakes, you can laugh at the mistakes that you made, or commiserate with us and through a
little bit, a little bit of misery that we went through together. Or if you’re curious, you feel more
confident in your ability to make this switch, and that you know that you have so much more
support than you might even realize. And you definitely have that in us over here at Vegan
Proteins.
We’d be dying to answer your questions. We’re all here to help. And that if you’re already in it,
and you’re a little unsteady, that perhaps you have some aha light bulb moments after listeningto this episode.
So those are my hopes, if you’re still here with us, which I hope that you are. And I want to
thank you so much for tuning into another episode of Vegan Proteins Muscles by Brussels
radio, please do keep in touch with us. I highly recommend checking us out at Vegan Proteins
at Muscles by Brussels on all the socials and hitting the contact button.
If you’re interested in one on one coaching, which I hope that you are, we’d love to have you
here, just go to veganproteins.com and hit the contact button submit application. And once
again, my name is Giacomo.
[Sawyer]
I’m Sawyer.
[Giacomo]
And we’ll talk to you soon.
[Sawyer]
Yeah.
[Giacomo]
Well, let me hit the stop button here and
