In this episode, Dani and Sawyer talk honestly about exercise burnout, why so many people struggle to stay consistent, and how redefining “fitness” can change everything.
They break down practical ways to build strength and improve cardio without running, burpees, or rigid gym rules, and explain why enjoyment, curiosity, and sustainability matter more than doing the “hardest” option.
If you’ve ever felt like exercise is just something you should do (but secretly dread), this episode will help you find a more realistic, livable approach to fitness.
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TRANSCRIPT
[Sawyer]
Hey everybody, welcome back to Muscles by Brussels Radio. I am Sawyer.
[Dani]
And I’m Dani.
[Sawyer]And today we are going to be getting into a topic that is not so sciency and technical, but it’s still really important because it applies to everybody. Because I think at some level we all have days, if not weeks and months, where we don’t really feel like exercising. But first, I want to catch up with Dani because it’s been a minute since we’ve gotten to just chat, you and me.
So what’s been going on in your world, Dani? I know you’ve been cutting for a week.
[Dani]Eight terrible days. No.
[Sawyer]Well, transitions are hard, you know. But how’s it felt so far? I know you said you were a little bit hungry.
[Dani]Yeah, well, especially the first few days, I was really, really hungry. And my instinct was like, I’m just going to go get a little snack. And then I was like, no, damn it.
You’re not going to get a snack because that’s not part of the plan right now. And yeah, I just remember hearing you towards the end of your cut being yeah, I’m feeling it. So it was funny that you were leaving yours as I was going into mine.
[Sawyer]Yep. Yeah, it’s a different thing. You can kind of get into a rhythm after a while.
And I’m sure you’re probably starting to get to that point where you’re like, all right, I know the rules and the ways that I get around feeling miserable all the time. But at the same time, there will come a point where like your body’s just kind of not happy with you for doing it for too long.
[Dani]I’m hoping I’m out of it before that happens because it’s only going to be eight weeks. Like there is nothing that’s going to make me prolong this beyond eight weeks. So even if for some reason I don’t get to where I initially set out to go, like I have no intention of going further than that.
But so far so good. Like I’m already a quarter of the way there. So I mean, I know the first few pounds come off pretty quickly in a diet.
But, you know, if we can keep if we can keep a good pace, maybe I don’t even have to do it for eight weeks. That would be pretty sweet.
[Sawyer]That would be cool. Yeah, that’s the that’s the dream, right? I think with mine, it was interesting because I kind of ended it because my body was telling me to and not because I wanted to because I was like, oh, Ben was saying, yeah, you’re not quite at 12% where it’s which is where I set my sights.
And so I was like, but it was getting to the point where adherence was kind of becoming an issue. So I had to just like own it and be like, all right, this is what it is, you know?
[Dani]How are you feeling now being out of it for like a week?
[Sawyer]Now I feel like, you know, not that I was dying before, but I feel like I definitely have more energy and I’m feeling better. And now I was sick this last few days, so that’s a little bit clouding the waters. But but I can tell I’m feeling better.
My training sessions are getting better, even the few that I’ve done since, you know, being sick. So it’s it’s feeling good and I’m excited about it. And honestly, I think that now that I’m, you know, seeing past the diet fatigue, I am thinking more clearly about what I want and and also what this next few months is going to be like with traveling and everything.
We’re starting traveling next week, pretty much.
[Dani]So now I didn’t realize it was that soon.
[Sawyer]Yeah, well, we’re heading to the East Coast first, and then we fly out from the East Coast. So that’s why it’s a little bit sooner than, you know, than the February when we fly across the Atlantic. But the idea of doing a cut and getting back into that just to get to an arbitrary number, you know, as stubborn as I am, I was like, you know what?
It’s not really worth it. I do feel like I’ve accomplished some some things with this cut, and I don’t need to be so much of a stickler. But I do plan on on doing another cut later.
[Dani]What do you think was the biggest thing that you accomplished beyond just like body fat loss? What did you take away from the cut?
[Sawyer]Yeah, good question. I think what I I realized that some fears were holding me up. That was the thing.
It was like I was every time I was, you know, seeing any dips in performance, but, you know, before when I was doing the same exercises, and, you know, probably just leverage changes, to be honest, and reductions in any size, which probably just glycogen and some fat loss, I would I would pull back or even just hunger, just having hunger, I would I didn’t want to push into that too much. And so having been just kind of like hold me to what I said I wanted to do and also give me more, more rest in between sessions, honestly, less frequency, like training, like permission. Yeah.
Those things. I think the combination of those things was exactly what I needed. Because it pushed me into some discomfort that I was forced to deal with, like kind of what you’re feeling right now of like, okay, this kind of sucks.
I’m not having a great time. But, you know, on the other side of it, you’re proud of yourself. And then, and then also just training less was really good because I have anxiety about not training as much and losing muscle.
That’s really all what it came down to, was I was afraid of losing muscle. And right. You know, even if I did a little bit, it wasn’t enough to like affect how I look overall.
And I know that I’m going to gain any that I lost back in the in the coming months. So I need to just get better about not catastrophizing when I’m cutting. And that’s I think what this helped this cut helped me do.
[Dani]Well, good. I mean, it sounds like it was pretty successful. It is.
I like it just is hard. I feel like some people are just like more sensitive to certain parts of it as well. Like I know I’m very sensitive to hunger.
Don’t like it at all. I would say I don’t know anybody who likes hunger, but that’s actually a lie. I do know people who like hunger and I don’t know what’s wrong with them.
But yeah. So but I mean, so far, I can’t complain. It’s going fine.
I think it’s more the fact that like you I think you said something like, oh, when you start to see the results, you’ll be more motivated. And I don’t know if that’s actually true, because really, I’m like doing it as a means to an end. I’m not doing this because like it’s my heart’s desire or anything.
I like I’m perfectly fine with where I’m at right now, but it’s literally like for a job, basically. So just a countdown, more or less a countdown. So that’s a bummer.
It’ll be interesting to at least see sort of like, okay, why did the scale go up? I think I’ll have a better understanding of why that happened at the end of this. And I’m very curious about that.
Like, I feel like I’ve definitely gotten stronger. So maybe I’ll see if I did actually build muscle or is it literally just because my steps went down? I don’t know.
[Sawyer]We’ll see. Yeah, I’m very curious about that. Yeah, I’m curious about that, too, because you said like you felt like you’re doing pretty much everything the same except for CrossFit now and which, you know, was a lot more energy burned probably than than your usual workouts.
So I think so.
[Dani]It’s again, it’s a little hard to tell because like bodybuilding style workouts are a lot longer, but they’re way less intense. Whereas the CrossFit, it’s like in bursts of like, you know, 15 minutes of hell. But the rest of it is like, they’re not that hard.
You know what I mean? So I don’t know. We’ll see.
We’ll see. So should we be offended that Ben specifically wanted you and I on this particular topic? He was immediately like, I want Danny and Sawyer on this.
[Sawyer]Yeah, weird. Actually, I didn’t think about that until just now. I think, yeah, we’re just we’re just finicky bitches, I guess.
And he was just like, yeah, let’s put these guys on because yeah. But I mean, I don’t know. I think it’s cool that you have experimented recently, especially with different training modalities.
And I think that was due to you kind of feeling like kind of burnt out with bodybuilding style training. Right. You were just kind of like, this isn’t really doing anything for me now.
Is that is that true?
[Dani]Yeah. Yeah. It just wasn’t very exciting for me at all anymore, which I think I think is actually a pretty good lead in to the topic, the actual topic, which is like, you know, there are a lot of people that come to us and they’re just like, I don’t like exercise.
I just exercise because it’s a means to an end. Like it’s it’s it’s what I’ve been told I have to do to be healthy. So I just do it.
But I hate every second of it. And I don’t really think it has to be that way for the most part. So what’s your take on it?
[Sawyer]Like from a bird’s eye view, I think that there’s I think if if it’s dangerous to paint things with a broad brushstroke like that, like saying I hate all exercise, because that’s not true. There’s probably some activities that are physical that you actually do enjoy. And so even though you might not be able to access those activities all the time, like say you’re a big snowboarder or something, right?
Like, okay, granted, that’s very seasonal and very, you know, situational. But you could still have some things that kind of make you feel similar to that. Like, for instance, if there’s a sense of like adrenaline when you’re snowboarding, okay, that might be a thread to pull on and see, okay, maybe I like classes that are a little bit more fast paced or something, right?
Or maybe I like doing, you know, circuits or something like that. Because I think if you think, oh, there’s just one way to exercise, and I hate that way, then you’re going to just very have a very hard time very love hate relationship with with exercise, because you’re going to be really proud of yourself when you do it. But you probably won’t be able to do it very often, very consistently, if you just do it that one way.
[Dani]And you hate it, you know, so there’s a lot of people that come to us and they’re like, kind of shocked that we’re not telling them like they have to run for cardio. Have you ever gotten that? People like, Oh, thank God, because I hate running.
And it’s like, well, you don’t have to do that. Why would you have to?
[Sawyer]Yeah, I do get that. And they’ll be or they’ll be like, I hate burpees. And I was like, I’m not I wasn’t going to program you burpees.
That’s, that’s a weird thing to say. But I feel like they’ve they’ve worked with people that have done that to them before, like kind of surprised them with stuff they don’t like.
[Dani]Yeah. And it’s it’s tricky to just be like, well, just find exercise you like and only do that exercise. Because I definitely think there’s like an element to just being an adult that sometimes we have to do things we don’t like to do just because they are good for us and we should do them, you know, true.
But I don’t think that needs to be like, a lot of people just expect to hate exercise. And I think it’s because of that expectation, or at least in part because of that expectation that they do end up hating exercise, like the same way sometimes people will start a diet and they don’t hate it because they’re like, this is not as hard as I expected it to be. So this must not be working.
So let me just make it harder until I hate it, because that’s the only way it could possibly be working. And I think people do that with exercise too.
[Sawyer]I yes, exactly what I was about to say. I think that people seek out activities they hate because it hurts more and because it’s harder. And so when things feel harder, they feel like they’re doing better because that’s their relationship to fitness is that they do things they hate and they get good results.
But I think to actually be a lifelong fitness enthusiast, you could call yourself or whatever fit person. I think you really do have to at some point cross the bridge into doing stuff that feels better to do than to not do. Because otherwise, I just I don’t see how you could do it indefinitely, which is really what you have to aim for if you want to keep anything that you achieve.
[Dani]So yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, as humans, we like want to do things that we’re good at. That’s just what most humans do.
If you start to if you try to do something and you’re not like naturally good at it. A lot of people are just going to be like, well, I don’t want to do that anyway. And I feel like that can kind of from a like well rounded athlete fitness or even bodybuilder perspective that can get you into a little bit of trouble where you end up like pretty unbalanced because let’s say you hate training legs and you suck at squats or something.
So you just don’t do it. And then you end up with a really underdeveloped lower body. Like in that regard.
Yeah, sometimes you got to do stuff that you don’t love to do. But the majority of your exercise should be stuff that you at least feel neutral about, you know, like hopefully enjoy, but at least feel like kind of neutral about not dread.
[Sawyer]Yeah, I completely agree. And actually, that’s a good example, because that’s describes me. I don’t really like leg training for the most part, but it was made a whole lot worse when I thought I have to barbell squat.
Well, I have to do these certain lifts that I hate. But when I started experimenting with different modalities and different exercises, it became a lot more tolerable. Like the leg press is my best friend.
Like me and that thing, we go way back. And it actually helped me develop my legs a lot more. Because even if you could debate all day whether the barbell squat is better or the hack squat or the Smith machine or whatever, doesn’t really matter.
The thing that’s going to build your physique the most and get you to where you want to go the most is the thing that you can do most consistently and most intensely. And if you just have a chip on your shoulder about a certain exercise, it’s going to be really hard to push past that and continuously do that, you know, day in and day out to try to build the kind of physique that you you want.
[Dani]Yeah.
[Sawyer]And keep it going.
[Dani]Sure. That’s one of my favorite things about bodybuilding is that there is no exercise you have to do, like literally not one. So, you know, if someone’s goal is powerlifting, yeah, they’re kind of shit out of luck, because there’s three exercises you have to do that is the sport.
You know, in CrossFit, I’m learning like, yep, no, even the stuff that sucks, you have to at least be able to do it badly, because it could pop up in some workout or competition or whatever, even if you can scale it. But in bodybuilding, if you’re just trying to change the way your body looks, there is no one exercise you have to do. Like, yes, you should hit all of your body parts.
And there are certain principles you should take into account when creating a routine. But you can pick exercises that feel good for you and that you’re excited to do. And yeah, you have to be confident that you can do them consistently also.
[Sawyer]Yeah, 100%. Yeah. So I think, I mean, maybe we can give people some practical takeaways here, which are maybe based on some things we’ve seen with clients and what they tend to hate, and what can work better for them.
I think we’ve already touched on one, which is like leg training. And besides the exercise selection that you choose, you can also program it differently. Like for me, I used to skip the entirety of leg day, because I was like, I don’t want to do that.
That sounds terrible. Now, I most often am throwing leg exercises into another type of workout. So I’ll spread out my leg exercises, so that it’s not just like a day of brutal compound leg exercises.
They’re sprinkled in throughout the week. And it doesn’t feel so like I am going to hate my life for the next 45 minutes kind of thing. It’s like, okay, one exercise I’m not a fan of, but I’m going to push myself and then I’ll move on to something else.
Do you have any tips for people who hate leg day?
[Dani]I also hate leg day so, so much. So I know most women it’s the other way around. But I would literally, I’d rather train my neck than my legs.
So yeah, I do the same thing. So I prefer more like full body style training, not because like it’s necessarily superior, because you could make an argument either way, as long as you’re getting the right amount of volume and intensity and what have you. But for that reason, it’s a psychological trick that I would play on myself and be like, okay, there’s only two exercises that are going to be torture in this workout.
And that’s fine. I can do that. But yeah, I might delay a full leg day.
And then like, oops, I missed that. I guess I’m behind. I’ll just do the next thing like, and that’s not how I was going to get the physique that I wanted to get.
So and then of course, yeah, the exercise selection, trying to make it things that I did not despise, which is hard to do on leg day for me. So because even the ones that I like, it’s like the setup on this is terrible. And I don’t even want to do the setup, you know?
Yeah. For example, I don’t dislike hip thrusts, but I hate setting them up. So anyway, yeah, leg day is a tough one.
I think the biggest thing that my cardi my clients tell me that they hate is cardio. They’re like, I hate cardio. I don’t want to do cardio.
And I feel like that’s one of those things that you have to be like, well, you’re a grown up, and you have a heart and it’s not getting any younger. So we have to find a way to get you moving to keep that healthy, even if it’s not like just to burn fat or burn calories or whatever.
[Sawyer]Right.
[Dani]So that I feel like there’s a ton of wiggle room there. And everybody just thinks I don’t want to run. And it’s like, well, you didn’t.
No one said running. Like, I would argue against running. I’ll make an argument against running any day.
I think it’s not a great exercise for a lot of people. I think that risk on it is way too high personally compared to other things.
[Sawyer]But yeah, if you’re not conditioned for it, your tissues aren’t prepared for running. It can be really, really hard on like, I don’t know, Achilles and like the calves and the shins and things that people aren’t really doing regularly or it can be in their high impact like that can be. Yeah, I think higher risk than they than they need to be.
[Dani]Yeah. But I think that walking is outstanding. I mean, isn’t that like the vast majority of the cardio that you did on your cut was just like steps?
[Sawyer]Yeah, I did. I did steps. And then I did two sessions of 20 minutes of uphill walking.
And the uphill walking is yeah, it’s I mean, it’s still walking. It’s not as high impact as doing running, but it definitely got my heart rate up. And actually, this is something I’m happy to report.
I was doing a hike right right before I got sick. And I was able to outperform I think what I would be able to would have been able to do a few months ago. In terms of cardio, we were walking up a mountain and it was just like not that hard.
And that was a really cool moment for me where I was like, oh, this is actually paid off. But yeah, historically, cardio has been torture for me. And I think it’s because I thought I needed to run.
I needed to even jog and doing the incline walking as much as I hated doing even that it was more tolerable.
[Dani]Right.
[Sawyer]And I could distract myself with, you know, YouTube videos or, you know, calls with friends or whatever. And and at the end of it, I did still talk while you’re doing it.
[Dani]You can still use your hands while you’re uphill walking, as opposed to like having to pump your arms while you’re jogging. Incline walking is my favorite form of like formal cardio without a question. Every prep that I’ve ever done, that is it.
That’s what I’m doing for formal cardio. If I get to a place where I have to incorporate formal cardio, that’s what I do. It’s so much easier on your joints.
It’s so much easier to recover from. But if you have that incline high enough, you don’t even have to be going very fast if you’re not touching the treadmill or whatever. Like your heart is pounding.
It’s beating just as hard as if you were jogging most of the time. So, yeah, that’s usually what I recommend to people. And they’re usually kind of floored at how high their heart rate does get, even though they’re not running.
But sometimes it is the high heart rate that people do not like. Like that’s the part that makes them hate it so much.
[Sawyer]One thing I noticed was that when I was when I was hiking, I got my heart rate up higher than I was able to without being annoyed by it. I’m more like tired or frustrated by how much it didn’t feel great in the gym because I was outside and I was doing something more stimulating than just being on a treadmill. So for me, the hike was more enjoyable, even though it’s more like, you know, you have to go out of your way to go do it.
It felt like, wow, I got a better cardio workout and it felt less tedious to do than than a than a treadmill workout. So that was kind of cool. Something I noticed, too.
[Dani]Yeah. And I think that largely depends on like where you live. I have clients that live in Colorado, right near Boulder, and that is like their regular cardio, like at least once a week they go out and hike as their cardio.
And often like they’ll hit a different place every week of the year, which is insane to me, because if I wanted to hike one, I’d have to drive an hour. And I can think of like four spots. So I love hiking, but it’s not like super accessible to me.
But I do think that, you know, if steps are something you’re doing or walking is something you’re doing, it’s so much more pleasant to do outside, even if it’s just walking on the sidewalk, because it’s just like more engaging. There’s stuff to see and sounds to hear. And like, it’s just much more pleasant.
It’s probably better for your mental health than being on a treadmill any day of the week. So yeah, I’m a big fan of getting outside for cardio in any way that you can do it. The other thing I was going to say is interval training.
So, you know, a lot of people think interval training is like, they’re misinformed and think that it’s better for fat burning or calorie burning to do intervals. Or there’s this like post exercise oxygen consumption, which there is, but it’s very minimal. It’s not that big of a deal.
But if you need cardio, like for your health, if you recognize like, okay, my heartbeat never gets above 120, like ever, I should probably do that. But thought of running or even inclined walking for 20 minutes sounds like hell, because it’s uncomfortable when your heart is beating a lot faster than it normally is not comfortable. But if you do it in little intervals, just little bursts of even like a minute here, two minutes there, like even that can add up.
And yeah, that could be like formal on a piece of cardio equipment. But I mean, you could do that at your house, you can do that outside, you could run to your mailbox and back or something. It’s like 30 seconds.
And those little short bouts, even though it seems like nothing, if you do them several times throughout the day, like it will add up and you will get fitter and then doing something like more formal cardio might suck less because you’re a lot more tolerant to it at that point.
[Sawyer]Yeah. And then you’ve kind of built up an identity around like, okay, I’m somebody who regularly does cardio and it just feels less of an affront to who you are. I think sometimes you, if you’ve only tried one method of doing something, you build up an identity against it.
You’re like, oh, I just don’t like that thing. And I think you need to be able to try different ways of doing that. Because if you just create an identity or rationale for why you don’t need to do that thing, it can really kind of, you can kind of shoot yourself in the foot in the long run, I think.
[Dani]Yeah. And for me, like cardio is a lot like eating your vegetables. Like I get it.
People don’t love doing it, but you should. Like it definitely, if you asked me this 10 years ago, I’d say people are doing too much cardio. They need to do less cardio.
And I think that was true at the time, but I think we’ve also taken that way too far. And now people like wear a big badge of honor that they do no cardio at all. And I’m like, that will bite you in the ass eventually.
So I think people should be making an effort, even if they’re not in a fat loss phase to do like a minimal amount, like the amount of cardio you need to do to keep your heart healthy. Finding something that you enjoy is really, really, really freaking important. And like, we’ve mostly talked about like just gym type stuff, like very bro-y types of cardio, but there’s so many different ways to move.
And I think that’s what it all comes down to. There’s, there’s dance classes, there’s step classes, there’s just dancing in your living room, there’s mowing your lawn, there’s vacuuming your house. There’s like you mentioned circus arts, like that’s cardio.
The next idea was finding activities that are like skill-based because for some people, it’s not going to feel like exercise if there’s something that they’re learning. So an example would be like indoor rock climbing or martial arts or, you know, learning a particular kind of dance. Or I know you used to do archery.
I don’t know how much that felt like exercise because I’ve never done it. You’d have to tell me.
[Sawyer]Depends on the draw weight you’re using. Like I have a 55 pound, I have a 55 pound bow. And when I take that thing out and repeat, like I can only do it for a while.
It’s like how I was saying when I play guitar, like on an acoustic that’s steel string, like after a while you’re just like cramping in those muscles that you’re using. So there’s definitely levels of difficulty to it, but you’re going to get, yeah, specific adaptations to that thing. Like you’re going to get calluses and stronger hands with guitar and you’re going to get stronger rear delts and to some degree traps with archery.
But yeah.
[Dani]Just like examples of like, you don’t even think about the fact that you’re exercising because you’re so busy trying to learn whatever thing it is you’re trying to learn. So like I used to do hula hooping professionally. And when I look back, it was, it was definitely exercise, like a hundred percent exercise.
Cause it would be like a trick or something I would want to learn. And I’d have to drill it like 500 times sometimes before I actually got it. But I was so focused on like nailing it that I didn’t even notice that like, yeah, I was, my heart rate was elevated.
If I lost the hoop, I’d have to chase it across the yard and go bring it back or whatever. So it was definitely exercise and it was like a good way to just trick yourself into moving, but you have to be like excited by the goal.
[Sawyer]Yeah. Yeah. I think it’s so funny because like, you know, as you get into the adult, like working world, like exercise becomes more like sterile and like, you know, portioned out and, and whatever it’s like meal prepping, but for fitness.
Whereas when you’re a kid, it’s like play is just everywhere. Like you’re just playing all the time. And so if, if recapturing some of that and turning that into, I mean, granted, it’s hard to find adult people who want to run around and play with you, but you can still find people who are more free spirited and want to do that kind of stuff.
But you just have to be willing to think outside the box a little bit, especially if you have like a normal day job and want to get activity in different ways than, than people just going to the gym would.
[Dani]And that’s part of the reason that I ended up doing CrossFit was because, you know, it’s not like I dislike bodybuilding or anything. I don’t have anything against it at all. It just was not exciting to me at that point because I don’t have any aspirations to compete at the moment.
So I am like, what am I going to do? Try to get my delts, like a centimeter bigger. I also don’t have any aspirations to like diet or get super lean, which is the only way you can really see the results you’re getting when you’re doing bodybuilding style training.
So I was still doing it, but it was like very going through the motions and I just wasn’t loving it. I wasn’t looking forward to it so much. But CrossFit, when I watched it, I was like, that looks awful.
But also like it is kind of like playing in a lot of ways because you don’t really know what you’re walking into until you’re like in it. And then you’re like, oh, shit, this is what we’re doing today. And for me, anyway, a lot of it is skill based.
I don’t know how to do a lot of the things that they have on the docket. So I’m spending a lot of energy learning and trying and scaling how to do those things. And that is like very engaging to my brain.
And also other people are doing the same thing at the same time, like bodybuilding for all of its benefits. It is kind of a lonely sport, like you’re very alone in doing it. Like everybody’s at the gym, but everybody’s doing their own thing, very focused on what they are doing.
And with the CrossFit thing, everybody’s doing the same thing, which you can absolutely make arguments for why that’s not good. But I think as long as the people, one, teaching it, but also doing it kind of know what they’re doing and are able to listen to their body and scale appropriately and they’re just trying to get fitter, then the goal will be achieved. Right.
And it’s exciting to have other people along the same path going through the same amount of suck that you can all bitch about at the end is like pretty cool.
[Sawyer]Yeah. Misery loves company. Right.
Yeah. And you know, what’s interesting is when we were both, I mean, I was kind of falling out of love, I thought, with bodybuilding a while back, too. And we were kind of going through that at the same time.
And it’s funny how we both solved that problem, but in different ways, like I never wanted to compete. So that was never really a concern for me. And then the idea of gaining a centimeter on my delts and getting a little bit leaner sounds awesome.
Actually, even being as granular as that, it sounds like getting to the next level of detail orientation, which is very tedious. But for somebody with my type of brain is exciting because it is marginal benefit and more learning. And so even though it does get really tedious and annoying and hard to suss out, if you’re making progress at this point, I’m still willing to do it.
I think what the issue was for me was that it was post election and I was going through all my feelings. And so those were kind of clouding what I really cared about type of thing in my personal life.
[Dani]Yeah.
[Sawyer]And to some degree, they still are. But at any rate, it’s interesting to me how you were like, oh, no, I’m just not as like there’s not enough novelty here. There’s not enough like I’ve been doing this training for so long that it’s not exciting to me anymore.
And I wouldn’t more I learn about you, the more I’m like, oh, she really does enjoy like learning, like unlocking new skills is like a big part of what makes you tick.
[Dani]It’s like crack to me.
[Sawyer]Yeah. Yeah.
[Dani]Like I haven’t tried crack, but I guess.
[Sawyer]Yeah. Well, there’s a reason people can’t seem to stop. But at any rate, like I think it’s really cool that you know that about yourself.
And so you lean into like the novelty aspect of like, OK, there’s just going to be there’s there’s an indefinite amount of like unlimited amount of things that you could learn in this life. And using that to catapult you into new challenges and new new levels of fitness is a really smart thing to do.
[Dani]I also think that for me, it’s like, you know, I’m very against program hopping, which is ironic because that’s literally all CrossFit actually is. But but I mean, I didn’t do that for, I don’t know, 15 years or something. I was very bodybuilder.
This is what we’re doing is the same thing over and over. And that was fine and exciting for a long time. But also like I’m kind of like I just personally and obviously I was not like this for a long time personally.
Like I feel like I’m done putting so much weight in what my body looks like and picking that apart so much, which is part of the sport. But also like, you know, as a business owner in the fitness sphere, like your body is also kind of your calling card. And I don’t like that about the industry.
Like I think it’s a pretty screwed up thing about the industry. And I don’t want to feed into it anymore. Like if I don’t want the industry to be like that, then I have to like, actually do that thing.
And I personally like I said about this cut coming up for the cruise, like I don’t actually care. Because I’ve gotten to a place where I’m just like, happy with the way my body looks, the things it can do. And I’m sure there’s a line where that could be crossed.
And that would change. And I could be like, I don’t love this right now. But that was the other reason was like, the bodybuilding, hypertrophy focused stuff is very cool looking, but it is very aesthetics based, especially after a certain point.
And I’m just like, I’m not there anymore.
[Sawyer]Yeah.
[Dani]And it feels kind of awesome to not be there.
[Sawyer]That’s cool. Yeah, I’m super proud of you. I’m really excited because I think, I think we do need more voices like that in the fitness industry.
And I think it’s it’s really refreshing to see people living that out instead of just saying like, Oh, it doesn’t matter what you look like, or whatever, being more comfortable with, you know, maybe some some areas of your body will atrophy right now, because it’s like, okay, I’m not training these, these specific areas is hard, you know, but at the end of the day, being excited about what your body can do now that it couldn’t before.
That’s pretty cool. And that is, you know, a really big aspect of fitness that gets overlooked a lot of times. So I think it’s cool that you’re, you’re living those values.
And I think that it’s going to inspire more people to do that, too.
[Dani]Trying to like, it’s not like I’ve transcended care and not caring about what I look like at all. But like, in bodybuilding, it is the focus like you can show up on show day, the unhealthiest you have ever been in your entire life, you can be super lean because you got cancer, they don’t give a shit. If you look a certain way you win.
And like, I don’t, I don’t know. I don’t know. I just, it’s something I’ve sort of gone back and forth with for years.
But I also love the idea of like, if someone wants to change their body, like bodybuilding is body modification, just like tattoos and piercings and any coloring your hair or whatever. It’s I like that about it. But it also like, I don’t want to just be that, I guess.
[Sawyer]Yeah, well, I think it’s what you’re saying is like, your fitness, you want to be an extension of your self expression, not like a, I’m trying to fit into a box for other people type of thing, right? And so I think that requires a constant like, inventory or like self assessment of like, what do I really care about right now? Because if you’re not careful, you might just end up chasing things because you think, oh, it’ll be better for the business or oh, it’ll get, you know, more attention on social media or whatever.
[Dani]Yeah. And it’s true, too. I know for a fact, and you know, I know Alice has experienced this.
And I don’t maybe Ben has experienced it. I don’t know, maybe you have experienced it. But the Lee I know Giacomo has, when you’re really lean eyeballs suddenly care what you have to say, like, all of a sudden, your your opinion matters, whether or not you know what the hell you’re talking about.
And the second you’re not super lean, your opinion matters a lot less. And like, that’s pretty fucked up, honestly. Yeah, it’s true.
[Sawyer]Well, it’s the same with being attractive versus unattractive. Like if if people are more attracted to you, you get more attention. And like, that’s, you know, it’s not necessarily fair.
It’s not necessarily based on merit, but it is it is human nature. And I think to some degree, you know, it’s you got to play the game a little bit like kind of like how, okay, we’ll do like the thumbnails with the, you know, excited faces or whatever. But at the end of the day, if you’re still bringing the kind of content and the kind of substance to things that really matters to you, then I don’t think you’re betraying yourself at all.
I think you’re just trying to play to play to your strengths and get people’s attention, but then really bring the good message home. And I think that that’s kind of what you’re doing now with white, you know, cutting and knowing like, okay, that’s gonna be helpful overall, but I’m not gonna go crazy with it. And I’m not gonna take it to a level where I don’t feel healthy anymore.
And I can’t do the things that I want to do anymore. Because ultimately, that’s what’s driving you right now. It’s what exciting to you right now.
And so I think it’s really cool that you went in with that kind of mindset of like, yeah, I’ll do it. But I’m not gonna like, pick myself apart anymore. And I’m not gonna feed into this kind of like, you know, Lena’s law.
I don’t know if you’ve seen that like online. No, Lena’s law is like the saying.
[Dani]No, sounds accurate.
[Sawyer]Yeah. So but yeah, but some people will just like take what is more aesthetic and turn it into like a pathology and, you know, build their whole identity around it. And it’s kind of it’s dangerous.
But I think at the end of the day, if what you’re doing feels true to what you want, and it’s not based on your desire for validation, or, you know, attention or business or whatever, like purely, you know, granted, those might factor in a little bit, you do we all do have to make a living when you got to keep the lights on. So yeah, right, we have to all make a living. And we also want to be listened to and yada, yada, yada.
But at the end of the day, if you’re doing what lights you on fire, I think that you’re going to have much more longevity, you’re gonna have much easier time keeping yourself adherent to what you’re trying to do. And, and you’re gonna feel much more proud of yourself at the end of it, because you’ll have accomplished something that really matters to you instead of chasing what other people care about.
[Dani]Yeah, I, I agree. And I think bringing it back to like, not necessarily bodybuilders, but just people who are like, I should exercise, but I, I don’t want to exercise, like, if it’s an exercise that you hate, or like a style of exercise, you hate, some people hate strength training, period, full stop, like they do not enjoy it. But you know, you need to do it because you’re an adult, like minimum effective dose, find out what that is, do as little of it as you need to do to get the results that you need to get and then fill in the gaps with stuff that excites you.
Yeah, and if you don’t know what that is yet, try something else, like just keep trying other things because just because you don’t like one thing, I guarantee there’s something out there that everybody likes.
[Sawyer]Right. I think for resistance training, like what I would give people to start with, if especially if they’re in that camp of like, I hate this, I would say two days a week of strength training with like three or four sets of like compound lifts that are going to hit a couple different areas, like usually like a bigger muscle group and a smaller muscle group, like doing a squat pattern, doing a pressing pattern, doing a pulling motion, you know, if you do a handful of those things, and you’re doing like at least three sets or so, I think you’ll, you’ll probably be able to achieve at least if you’re able to do it consistently, you’ll be able to achieve a certain level of strength and like maintenance of muscle, muscle tissue to a certain degree that’s going to be healthy overall.
[Dani]Yeah, I, I would agree completely. And some people, you know, in, in the world of strength training, I’ve, I’ve met a lot of people who just think it’s really boring, you know, like they don’t like, they don’t like the rest in between, they leave the gym feeling like they haven’t done anything. Obviously, at that point, we need to learn how to bring some intensity to these lifts, but that takes time when you’re new, right?
[Sawyer]Yeah.
[Dani]So sometimes if, if someone is like, I hate this, I will not do it, but they like crazy intense stuff. Yeah, I’ll throw, I’ll throw some burpees in there or something. If that’s what’s going to make them keep, if that’s what they like, and they need to feel like that they did that, or they didn’t train, and that’s what’s going to keep them showing up to do the strength training that I really want them to be doing.
Sure. That’s a concession I’m willing to make to get them there.
[Sawyer]Totally. I’ll do like circuit training for those kinds of people. I’ll do, I mean, even experiment with different stuff, CrossFit, strongman, powerlifting, I mean, whatever, you know, to, to, until you find something that feels like it lights your brain up.
There’s a little bit of a dope dopamine, like, you know, flare up there. Because I think that people think that we in the fitness industry are people who are just like constantly doing fitness stuff are just doing it for the long-term benefits. And that we just have our eyes on the horizon all at all times, and that’s why we do it.
But if we’re being honest with ourselves, like, we have found a way to do fitness that feels good in the moment, too, and also gets us towards the long-term goal. And that’s the tricky needle to thread. But once you figure that out, oh man, you’re gonna make some serious progress.
[Dani]When you’re training, you know, you got decreased your training a little bit, I don’t mean in performance, I mean, you like decrease the amount of lifting you were doing, like, you were like, oh, that gives me some anxiety. Like, that sucks, but also it’s a really good sign that you really enjoy the type of training that you’re doing. And that’s when I started to realize, like, oh shit, I really do like this CrossFit thing.
Because some nights I’m just like, I have too much work. I can’t go. And I’m, like, bummed about it.
And I was like, yeah, yeah, I mean, I’m where I’m supposed to be right now. And it has nothing to do with a long-term benefit. What is the long-term benefit of me learning how to do a muscle-up?
Like, zero. There’s none of that. But being overall fitter, that’s a long-term benefit.
But it’s also, like, I’ve found something that I enjoy so much right now that I want to be there doing it. And I think that’s the feeling people should be shooting for. And as much as I’ve, like, kind of shit on group classes for a long time, just as like a modality, I think they obviously have large drawbacks, right?
But for a lot of people, that community is the difference between them showing up or not showing up. So I think they’re actually, like, a huge win. If you hate fitness and you hate training, go get a class pass or something and go try out different classes until you find, like, a teacher that you like and a group of people that you like.
And even if that’s not what you end up doing long-term, it can be a really good jumping-off point to get you into something else that maybe you like even more. So, you know, if you’re out there listening to all the bros on YouTube and even this podcast, and you’re like, well, they said that group training is not the best. It’s not the best, but it’s a billion times better than not training.
So just try it.
[Sawyer]100%. 100%. Yeah.
And I think, yeah, you’re right. I think a lot of times people do start there and then they find out, oh, I do like doing something like this. And then they use that to infer different programming for themselves in the future.
Even if that class kind of goes away or, you know, the trainer leaves or whatever, they have some experience that really helped them get to the next point of, like, I actually enjoy some exercise. You learn more about yourself. Oh, if you really do experiment, then you’ll probably find something that clicks with you.
Sometimes, like, when I was going through that, like, whole post-election, like, cloud, sometimes that’s people’s, like, norm. Like, some people work so freaking hard or they have such, like, such stress in their lives that they just think that they don’t like exercise categorically because it just takes too much energy and they just have very precious little of it and time. To those people, as much as you can control, I think you need to get out of that cycle because there’s just never going to be a situation in which exercise is not somewhat of a chore.
It’s not somewhat taxing. Granted, there are some ways that are harder than others, but it’s going to be a harder thing. It’s going to be, like, something that is not, like, completely enjoyable and you can do completely without focusing, right?
It’s not like a passive activity like watching TV or something like that. And so, if 99% of your energy is taken up by work and you expect to use that 1% you have left to exercise, even if you do manage to get yourself to exercise, you’re just not going to have much left in the tank to do anything productive. So, to those people, I say you have to simplify your life as much as humanly possible.
And if that means that you don’t get in the gym as often, but you have a couple of days, like down days or something like that, where you finally can start to reclaim your health and fitness, then that is still worthwhile. But, yeah, I think a lot of people just treat the weeks like hustle, hustle, hustle, and then on the weekend they just can’t do anything but veg out. And that’s really hard to get out of.
[Dani]I mean, I’ve done that. I’ve totally done that. Sometimes for years on and off.
I literally have to put, or did have to put before when I was struggling with, like, caring about going to the gym, I would have to put it in the calendar like it was a regular appointment, drag my ass there, and the whole time I was there I was like, I should be at home doing this work, which flows. But the other thing is, like, for those people who, like, feel like they have no energy, this is super hard in the beginning, like, really, really hard because you have no energy. But, like, exercise gives you energy.
Not always right away. It’s not always like, oh, I did a workout and now I feel awesome. But, like, that’s literally how we build mitochondria, which we can still build through intense exercise of some kind over time.
And the more mitochondria you have, the more energy you have.
[Sawyer]Powerhouse of the cell.
[Dani]It is the powerhouse of the cell. And it’s, you know, we can build new ones. That’s something that I’ve learned over the last couple of years.
It’s hard. It’s not easy to do. So you have to show up and you have to occasionally bust your ass a bit, but it will pay off in the long term.
And yeah, it’s a hard buy-in at the beginning, but worth it.
[Sawyer]Yeah. You know, one tip for people who just have really busy, hard work-life balance, that kind of thing, is try to get your training in earlier in the day, if possible. I know for some people that means waking up super early, you know, and this time of year it’s really cold and that sucks.
But if you can get yourself to the gym or get into your home gym, which would be ideal in some situations early enough, it’ll kind of, it won’t hit you yet that you are more tired. Or if you try to work out after work, a lot of times it just doesn’t happen. And so even as I’ve gotten older, I’ve just gravitated towards doing it earlier.
I don’t know if it’s because I’m older or because I just do more work now or whatever, but at any rate, it’s gotten easier to do workouts in the morning as opposed to later in the day.
[Dani]So I know that what you just said is true because so many people have, I’ve heard so many people that I respect saying it. So I know that it’s true, but I’ll give you the flip side of that because there’s, I can’t do it. Like I’ve never been able to do it.
Yeah. Um, but doing it immediately after work as somebody who kind of just like rolls out of bed and starts working pretty much every day being like, it’s this, this o’clock I’m going to the gym. It, it makes me stop working.
Like it forces me to stop working. And it’s this like bear kind of barrier event between my work day and my me time. So it helps me as somebody who like tends to, I mean, I can very easily sit in front of this computer all day and I will never run out of work to do.
It’s not possible. So that’s a, you know, if somebody else is like that, where they can just work, work, work forever, like there is no end, there’s no end. You’re never going to check everything off the list.
So stop trying to, and you’re going to have to just like set a boundary. And for me during COVID when nobody could go anywhere, I would go for a walk and I would call my mom like every day. And that was like, that’s when I realized like, Oh, if I have an event after work that tells my brain we’re done for the day, like everything is better.
So for me going to the gym right after work helps with that, but you have to know that you’re actually going to do it.
[Sawyer]Yeah, that’s very insightful. I think that’s good because people need variety when it comes to ways to do things. But I think at the end of the day, it’s like you figure that out because you put consistent effort towards it and you realize, okay, this is something that works for me.
Even if everybody else I talked to, or mostly everybody else that I talked to is doing it in the morning. Yeah, for some people that’s just not feasible. And you have to work within the bounds that your body and your mind give you to some degree.
And yeah, I think experimentation is a good way to figure that out. Yeah.
[Dani]All right. I think we kind of covered it. Do you have anything else that you wanted to cover on this topic?
[Sawyer]I don’t think so. I think those are all like the major points that I would tell somebody that, you know, if I had all the time in the world to explain to clients too, so I’ll probably send this to some of them. Yeah.
Yeah, no, that was pretty good.
[Dani]All right, good. I feel good about that. I feel like if I was with somebody in person, I would just start rattling off 100 different kinds of exercise and see if they’ve tried it and if they hate it, I would be so annoying.
So this is much better than that.
[Sawyer]No, it’s good. It’s good when you’re with somebody because you get to zero in on what they like and then build off of that. So, you know, we’d have a more specific conversation for them.
But hopefully this gets people’s wheels turning of like, oh, I haven’t tried that or I did like that thing one time and then they can go from there. But yeah, it’s always hard to give exact advice on these kinds of platforms.
[Dani]All right, well, I’ll do the wrap up. I haven’t done it in forever. Let’s see if I can still remember all of it.
I like how Ben just rattles off everybody’s social media account. I will never remember everybody’s social media account. My God.
Okay. All right. All right, everybody.
Thank you so much for tuning into another episode of Vegan Proteins Muscles by Brussels Radio. If you are looking for any kind of one-on-one coaching, we do have openings and we will leave the link for the assessment in the show notes or in the YouTube description down below. Go ahead and fill that out and you’ll hear back from probably Giacomo within a business day.
We’d love to help you reach whatever your goals are, even if you hate exercise. And if you have any questions or comments or concerns, you can find us on Instagram. Sawyer is at Soyboy Fitness Coaching.
[Sawyer]Nice.
[Dani]Yes. All right. Mine is Vegan Proteins.
Giacomo’s Muscles by Brussels. Ben is Ben A. Mitchell.
I think he changed it back.
[Sawyer]Yeah. Yeah. He changed it back.
[Dani]And Alice is Alice Vegan Proteins. We’re Vegan Proteins Alice.
[Sawyer]I think it’s Vegan Proteins Alice. Okay.
[Dani]All right. And you can always email us anything about the podcast or if you have suggestions, coach at veganproteins.com and we will hit you back. So my name is Dani.
[Sawyer]And I’m Sawyer.
[Dani]And we’ll talk to you later.
[Sawyer]Peace.
