Ep 277 – Coaches Catch Up September 2026

The five Vegan Proteins coaches sit down for the first “Coaches Catch Up” to talk about what’s happening in their training, competition prep, and lives outside the gym. Ben shares the story behind his surprise competition prep and his approach to classic physique, while Alice talks about her evolving competition goals and the possibility of moving toward women’s physique. Giacomo discusses his renewed focus on training, technique, and recovery, including the differences between bodybuilding-style movement and the more efficient movement used in Olympic lifting and CrossFit.

Dani shares some of her recent CrossFit experiences, including becoming more focused on technique and learning to be more coachable as she prepares to potentially compete. Sawyer talks about his music and the creative projects he’s been working on, while the group also gets into the fun of spending time together outside of training: from concerts and late nights to the possibility of a future Vegan Proteins retreat.

Along the way, the coaches discuss the realities of getting extremely lean, sustainable habits, sleep, coaching, competition goals, and how fitness can influence much more than just your physique. They also invite listeners to submit questions for the next all-coach Q&A episode.

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TRANSCRIPT

Ben (00:00)
Hello, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Vegan Proteins Muscles by Brussels Radio. Today you are joined by all five of the coaches here at Vegan Proteins. So we have myself, we have Sawyer, we have Alice, we have Danny, and we have Giacomo. So today’s segment is a new segment that we’re going to be doing on the podcast as a regular part of the podcast going forward. And that is going to be a coach’s catchup. I think that’s what we’re going call this. So we’ve had a few

Clients, members of the community ask for us to talk more about our personal journeys and where we’re at with our health and fitness and also just kind of casual chit-chat. So I think any sort of conversations or topics or tangents that arise from whatever we’re sharing here, we’ll just let that go off and spiff on that. Otherwise, we’ll just go around and talk about maybe what’s been going on for us in the last

couple weeks since we last did this or a couple months depending on how frequently we’re gonna do it.

Coach Sawyer (00:55)
Mm-hmm.

Ben (00:56)
So with that being said, does anyone want to start?

Coach Sawyer (00:59)
So

it’s hard to start from zero.

Dani Taylor (01:00)
What’s up with you, Ben? You

told us all you were competing

Ben (01:01)
Yeah.

Dani Taylor (01:02)
with like twenty days’ notice or something. How about you start?

Ben (01:05)
Yeah.

Coach Alice Robeson (01:05)
Yeah, wait good job surprising

us.

Ben (01:07)
Okay.

Coach Sawyer (01:07)
Yeah.

Ben (01:07)
Yeah, that was a a little bit of a surprise. I didn’t really want to announce it too far ahead of time. One is because I kind of only decided recently that I actually wanted to compete again. So part of it was there wasn’t that much time to give people notice anyways. the other aspect of it was just the last time that I competed. I think I put a lot of pressure on myself and I wanted to kind of just

Wait till the end in order to tell people about it. So there wasn’t this huge kind of build-up. And I think that that’s been good. And it’s kind of just felt like the prep has happened in the background of everything that I’ve been doing, as opposed to being like the forefront where I’m thinking about prep, prep, prep all the time. Of course, as you get deeper into it, it becomes a little bit more impactful on your day-to-day. And so it does become a little bit more front of mind. but that being said.

Maybe it would be helpful for me to give just like a little overview, but I don’t know. Maybe you guys would be able to have specific questions for me that would maybe gauge where the audience is thinking about as I’m as I’m describing things. So I guess the long and short of it is last time I competed was in 2024 in the spring. and my kind of recovery phase, post show phase was pretty rough, not gonna lie. I’m gonna do a whole like Instagram post about that after this season.

And talk about that in depth. So I don’t, I’m not gonna go too much into it on the podcast here. So check back in a couple weeks, maybe after this comes out, and you can hear a little bit more about that. But yeah, there was the prep itself was very brutal. I did a lot of stuff that I didn’t need to do in order to make it that that made it harder on myself. I got in really good shape for the show. I got very lean for a first-time competitor and I did fairly well at on my first show.

However, there was quite a toll on my physical and my mental. So I was kind of burnt out from bodybuilding for a while after that. I had a bunch of different issues that I kind of experienced. So I would say for the first time ever, like anxiety, depression for a period of time. Obviously, there’s the weight gain that comes post-show. I had lost a decent amount of muscle mass. I think my hormones were probably in the gutter. I had some like

weird GI stuff that was going on for months afterwards. So I would remember that. That kind of started actually when I went out to to visit him. I had a bunch of injuries that that came after that prep, like sciatica for the first time experiencing that. That kind of put me out of the gym for months. There were days where I couldn’t even get off the couch or move at all without being in like seven, eight, nine out of ten pain. So having to really modify what I was doing for the gym there. I had like a pec tendon, bicep tendon thing going on for a long time.

So there were all these different little injuries and setbacks that kind of plagued me for I would say a good year after that that first competition. And then things definitely started to turn around in the summer of last year. That was also the time where I met my girlfriend. And I think that was a big turning point for me, just like mentally, just being honestly just a lot more happier and feeling more fulfilled and purposeful.

getting a little bit of like my passion and and spark back for bodybuilding and for I would say just just life in general. So after that time, so I kind of my my weight was a little bit all over the place in between my competitions. So I competed at like 150. I even saw some wins in the 140s at times, you know, went all the way up into like the 190s, came back down just to try to, you know, feel a little bit healthier and then kind of slowly built my way back up.

And then since fall of last year, I’ve kind of had kind of been slowly recomping until this summer. So I was about 175, middle of the summer. Pretty good body composition, definitely put on some muscle since the last time I had competed. And I was just feeling like I wanted something to have as a little bit of a carrot, so to speak, kind of dangling out in front of me to help provide a little bit of a additional external motivation. Like going to the gym for me doesn’t require that much motivation. I like training, I like lifting.

But I was just feeling a little bit uninspired, I guess, with bodybuilding. And so I was kind of thinking about competing next year in 2027. I wanted to do the same show that I did the first time, almost kind of to get like a a redo experience of of the the first outing and kind of like get the experience that I really wanted that I felt like I didn’t have. And then I saw that there was a show kind of similar geographical area, but in the fall of this year. And it seemed like a timeframe that was like.

relatively doable from where I was at body composition wise. So I just decided I would try to tighten things up a little bit. And I I can’t even remember how far out I decided to do it. I want to say it was like mid-July, early maybe at the latest early August, that I was like really like it became more so, that’s kind of a fun idea versus like, I’m actually gonna do this. Cause there’s a time where I think you have to kind of commit to it.

because if you just kind of like are on the fence, you’re not gonna make the decisions needed in order to get in the position that you need to be. So yeah, that was a couple months ago. What would that that would be like two about two months ago? That’s kind of shocking when I when I say when I say it looking at it now. but knowing kind of like yeah, no I’ll I’ll just finish off here. Knowing my photos and

Dani Taylor (06:10)
questions. I I have qu quite a few actually.

Ben (06:14)
and and physique like

Seeing where I was at last time at certain body weights helped me to gauge where I would need to be this time. So I kind of figured I could get down to 160 ish. And that I I think I could have competed at 160 last time. So that was kind of a conservative like if I 160 this time, I’m almost certainly gonna be in shape. and actually, I don’t think I’m gonna need to get that low. I’m like 165, 166, somewhere in that range right now.

So I’m like fifteen pounds up from the last time that I competed. Not as lean, certainly not as lean. but also the division that I’m competing in arguably maybe don’t need to be as lean for. And my shape will carry me a little bit more anyways. So I’ll leave it there. Questions, Danny?

Dani Taylor (06:55)
So, well, my first question was like not so much a question, but last time you did bodybuilding, this time you’re doing classic physique. was there like a thought process behind that? Is this the only show you’re doing? And notoriously you were insufferable during your during your last competition prep per your family. And I’m curious if you feel like that has been different this time. That’s probably my biggest question.

Ben (07:18)
Yeah. That’s a word for word. My brother said that. He’s he said to my mom, he’s like, Ben is insufferable right now.

Coach Alice Robeson (07:24)
Hops.

Ben (07:25)
so I’d like to say that I’ve done a better job this time. To me, it doesn’t feel like I have really changed my habits or behaviors that drastically, which I think kind of speaks to like the slow, gradual changes that allowed me to get from, you know, the heaviest that I was to kind of in a spot where I could prep.

It didn’t feel at any time like it took a ton of effort. It was just these kind of small tweaks and then continuing to turn up that dial a little bit. Jeff Alberts from 3D Muscle Journey has that kind of analogy of instead of a light switch being on and off, you know, install the dimmer switch and turn it up or turn it down, depending on the phase that you’re in. So I feel like it’s been a gradual process of me turning it up, which means that I don’t feel like I’ve had to do this drastic, like, okay, now I’m adding in a, you know, a ton of cardio or doing a bunch of steps or, you know, cutting my food drastically, which I think.

Usually when you’re doing those things, that’s what leads to you really suffering more than you need to. And then that’s how that it kind of manifests externally. But there have been some moments like yesterday, just to give an example, because it’s fresh on on my mind. Dana and I were at the gym and we were doing we were doing some incline Smith Machine Bench. And it was my last set and it was my last rep. And it was, it was a grinder, and I I thought that I was gonna get it. She didn’t, so she kind of helped me with the spot, and I had a little bit of a

I had a little bit of a moment there where I was getting let’s just say frustrated with her. And I got fr but I could tell that I was,

I could tell that my reaction upset her. So I took a second to like calm myself and like, dude, it’s not a big deal. Like, it does not matter that she whatever assisted a little bit on that, on that last trip. Like, it’s not gonna make a difference. But in the moment, I had a reaction that I was not particularly proud of, especially seeing how it then affected her. So maybe some moments like that, but

It would probably have to be a question for her more than it would be a question for me because we she’s the one who’s living with me. But I again I think it’s like when I think about my sleep, when I think about my routines, it’s like it doesn’t feel that different from what I was doing. It’s just making certain adjustments that I know are gonna help me to get there. and I was yeah, I was talking to a client the other day and I was kind of saying, like, I really feel like actually am I

This is kind of funny, but I feel like my discipline and willpower is like lower than it was last time that I prepped. But I just have systems in place that make it easier for myself. so I don’t have to just like white knuckle it through. And I think that’s part of the reason why it’s felt like that this time around. and to answer your first two questions, Danny, switching from bodybuilding to classic, really the main kind of reason for this for me was one, I just want to see if I fit the criteria where I think I do, because

When I competed last time, I was holding center for the symmetry round. So I think that that is my my strength. Like I have you know, like wider clavicles. I have like a pretty not like a the super small waist, but like i have a good taper, flaring quad. So I have the I have that good X frame. Like my structure is more so I would say my sh my strong suit. And so I figured with classic, you know, working a little bit on the posing and the presentation, that might play to my strengths a little bit more. I also

Just tend to hold a little bit more body fat in my glutes and my hamstrings. And, you know, the the it depends on the federation, but I’m competing in the OCB. I like the OCB. every federation has their pros and cons. We don’t need talk about that. But they’re like, their thing is like we don’t need classic competitors to have shredded glutes. Like that’s that’s bodybuilding. and for me that was appealing because I basically killed myself in order to get those last time I competed.

and I had to sacrifice a lot of fullness and muscle mass in my upper body, which then hurt my overall shape and how competitive I was. So, do I think that I could probably be leaner for the criteria for this competition than I will be? I think that’s that’s an argument that could be made. But also I’m like, would getting leaner then hurt my shape with my upper body and my general, you know, flow and proportions? hard to say. So that’s kind of where I’m like going in kind of open minded and like.

If the judge’s feedback is that I need to be leaner, but I’m classic, that’s great because that’s something that’s in my can control. And next time I compete, I know that. I know, okay, I have to get to, you know, probably this weight instead of the the weight that I’m currently at. if the feedback is you’re lean enough, but we see you more in bodybuilding than we do in classic, that’s helpful too, because then I know, okay, you know what? I probably just need to like hammer my lower body and get it like disgustingly big so that I don’t have to get, you know, I don’t have to sacrifice fullness in my upper body in order to get lean through.

my glutes and my hamstrings. So I feel like it gives me a direction to go in in the future with bodybuilding, no matter what the feedback is and no matter how I place, which is kind of nice for me. just to know where I might fit better. But really the idea with classic is I feel like I don’t have to I don’t think it has to be as much of an imposition on my life in order to get into shape for classic as it is for straight up bodybuilding. Like getting bodybuilding, bodybuilding, like levels of lean and is is a different is a different task. now

If you look at the highest level, the guys in classic are getting pretty much as lean as the guys in regular bodybuilding. But at the amateur level, I think you can probably get away with not being quite as lean. And to be honest, that appealed to me. Like if I don’t have to suffer in order to like have a good experience and enjoy the the show day, then hey, that’s great. and this is the only show that I’m gonna be doing. So I just wanted to have one show, just focus on that one, and then use that to then you know, I feel like

I didn’t really have the again the reverse slash recovery slash post show experience that I wanted last time. Again, that’s pretty normal in a lot of competitors, but I feel like stopping it when I have a little bit of gas left in the tank will allow me to recover and get to a place where I can just really like feel good about my my next offseason going forward and take a nice long, slow, steady approach to that. So I

didn’t want to like burn the candle up both eggs.

Coach Sawyer (12:56)
Yeah, well also last time you, you, when you

like, yeah, last time when you prepped, you try to stay that lean for like two different seasons, right? Like two different

Ben (13:05)
Yeah.

Coach Sawyer (13:06)
like groupings of shows. And I was like,

Ben (13:08)
Yeah.

Coach Sawyer (13:08)
how is he going to do that? Like how are you going to stay that shredded for that long? And you’re like, I’ll lose a little bit of conditioning and get it back. And I was like, I don’t think it’s going to be that easy, bro. And I, that’s

Ben (13:17)
No.

Coach Sawyer (13:17)
me saying that, you know, not being part of the competitive world, never being that lean before.

But you were just super ambitious with it. And I don’t think that was a bad thing. I think it was a good experience. Like you obviously learned from it. But I like your mindset going into it this time. I feel like you’ll have more fun with it. You’re being easier on yourself. You’re enjoying it more. More pleasant to be around, it sounds like. That was pretty low bar though.

Ben (13:38)
Yeah. Yeah. I yeah, I know. Yeah. I I I hope so. yeah, like you said, I think some people

can do that longer drawn out season, but most most athletes, I think four to six weeks, any any amount of time past that holding holding that condition, you’re probably not gonna be able to do unless you’re one of the genetic freaks. So any other questions from people before we move on?

Coach Alice Robeson (13:59)
So you were

so you like basically reached a level of conditioning and it made you feel like I might be able to compete soon and that’s what sort of sp sparked you looking at show dates and landing on a show and being like, Let’s make myself commit to this

Ben (14:14)
Mm, yeah, good question. So I think that

For a while, just getting leaner was something that it was more from a lifestyle perspective. Like I kind of wanted to see if I thought that I had made improvements from the last time I competed. So I was kind of just gonna slowly come down and get leaner. And then like if I felt like, okay, you know what? I don’t feel like I’ve made that many improvements this last time I competed. I’m just gonna go back into a build and like continue on that path. But as I was getting leaner, I was like, you know what?

There’s certain areas that I don’t feel like have come up as much as I would have liked, but there are other ones that I feel like definitely have. So for example, I really wanted to bring out my chest and my arms from last time I competed. And those two muscle groups were probably the ones that are the most improved for me. So I’m really happy with that. There are other ones with like my quads, which were probably a standout body part the first time that I competed, and maybe my back as well, that I think have maybe improved slightly, but have kind of more maintained. And part of that I would say is like.

Having some knee issues over the past year that have probably plagued my my quad training to an extent, but I feel like I’ve finally kind of figured out a little bit of a formula for that. So again, I’m excited to kind of get back into an offseason and improve those. so once I got to the point where I was lean enough that I could tell that I had made improvements, it was kind of like this I was umming and aweing a little bit about like where do I go next.

And so out of curiosity, I kind of just looked at some shows and you know, you know how it is as when you’re a competitor, you you know, you see people on social media competing or you know, you kind of reminisce on the last time you competed and so certain times you get a little bit of that itch of like, I’d love to do that again, but it hadn’t really been that strong of a calling for me in in kind of the the past couple, you know, months prior to that or or year prior to that.

But once I felt like, okay, I’ve made improvements and I was thinking about competing next year, anyways, in 2027. and then I saw that there was a show that was gonna be kind of, you know, close, close to where I competed last time. you know, my par my parents live like 20 minutes away from from where the venue is. So I don’t have to get a hotel. I can just stay at my house. Danny and Giacomo are are gonna be there, which is really fun. I get to kind of turn it into just like a fun weekend getaway with some friends.

and my family. So there were all these different reasons that felt like this is a good time. Dieting through summer for me has been way more enjoyable than when I was doing it in the winter time and I was cold all the time. we got a CSA this year. And so I’m like, okay, I gotta eat all this like veg and fruit that they included in the CSA, which has made it again like really easy because it’s just like, okay, certain again, it’s like systems and habits. So I have my breakfast that I eat pretty much every day. I have

A couple different options for lunch that I might have. And then dinner is usually like a lean protein source and whatever vegetables we got from the CSA. and my girlfriend has been kind of like doing a lot of it with me. Like we train together, we’ll do cardio together, we’ll, you know, eat dinner together. So that kind of helps as well. Like it it makes it feel like it’s not this big diversion from what I was doing. so yeah, I hope that answered your question, Alice.

Coach Alice Robeson (17:07)
Yeah, yeah, thank you.

Ben (17:08)
Yeah. Okay.

Dani Taylor (17:10)
I’m excited to

see you compete, even if you tricked us into it.

Ben (17:12)
Thank you.

Giacomo (17:13)
Likewise.

Coach Alice Robeson (17:14)
Yeah, but

Ben (17:14)
Yeah.

so I didn’t want to tell Danny and Jockey about the show because again, I didn’t want to make that big announcement until closer. So I kind of just invited them for because they we’ve been talking about having them at our at our house on on the cape for some time. And so I invited them and another friend of ours, who is a former client of Sawyers, invited all of them and they were like, yeah, sure, that’ll be awesome. And yeah, the cape on

the fall is really nice too. So we turned it into a little into a little weekend getaway and then surprised them with a a bodybuilding show.

Dani Taylor (17:46)
It was really clever, actually. It was pretty clever. I was like, that’s so cool And then I was like, Did Ben trick us?

Coach Alice Robeson (17:52)
Ha ha

Ben (17:52)
Yes and no.

Yes and no.

Dani Taylor (17:53)
Well played, well played.

Cool, cool.

Ben (17:56)
Okay. Yeah,

Giacomo (17:57)
Yeah.

Ben (17:57)
I

think that’s I think that’s pretty much that’s pretty much me.

Giacomo (18:00)
I’m curious to see what your reaction is after the fact, once you’re done with your season and where it takes you. And also I’m curious to hear Dana’s your partner’s long term response to this. Not because right now you’re in it together. And I’m sure we’re only privy to so much in terms of being able to be a fly in the wall for what your relationship looks like and what her perspective is. I’m sure she’s I’m guessing she’s withholding some of it until she can understand.

what life is like post competition season, but I’m super curious to hear how that all plays out for you from the from an outsider’s perspective, because obviously we don’t live together. We’re not roommates or whatnot or what have you. It seems like things are going relatively well for you. And it to me, it seems like you’re enjoying this prep a lot more than you did the last one. To me, your first prep seemed like one where it was more about

Not going through the motions, but getting it done, essentially. Right. And now it’s like to me, it looks like you’re really getting into it and enjoying it. And so yeah, I’m I’m looking ahead. I’m looking at what it’s gonna be like for you six months from now. So I’ll have to ask Dana also and see what she says. Yeah.

Dani Taylor (19:02)
Curious, Giacomo, your thoughts about some of what Ben was talking about of like, in order for me to get my shredded glutes, I had to sacrifice a lot of upper body fullness. And like, is sacrificing my shape and symmetry like worth it to get these shredded glutes? Because as he was talking about that, I was talking about some of the conversations you and I have had about you and your bodybuilding journey. so maybe it’s a good segue into you and what you’re up to.

Giacomo (19:27)
Sure. My initial reaction and my response to your question is that when you’re in your earlier years of your bodybuilding career, it’s easier to make those decisions because you still haven’t reached your genetic ceiling yet. And you have the ability to be a little more flexible with your conditioning to bring the best package possible. And then for me, it’s been what, fifteen years consistently.

In my bodybuilding career training for the same thing for the same reason. So I think it becomes a little more of a hard decision where it’s like, you got what you got, bring your best package and see what it looks like. These are this is your frame, these are your muscle insertions, these are how big your muscles are gonna grow. Put it all out there and get judged based on what your best potential is. And if it ain’t good enough, that’s okay. I’m not doing it to to be better than someone else who is a genetic outlier.

And who can do better than me? I’m doing it to be the best version of myself. I don’t know why Siri is chiming in, but she’s pretty nosy or he’s pretty nosy, depending on whatever. So that’s that’s my thought on on that to answer your question, Danny. I feel like in my earlier years of what, talk to me, I’m all years. What was your question?

Dani Taylor (20:33)
That didn’t really answer my question at all, actually.

Coach Sawyer (20:36)
The shred of glutes thing, basically.

Dani Taylor (20:38)
yeah,

like sacrificing your s shim symmetry or some size or fullness of one body part in order to achieve shredded glutes or some other like degree of leanness that you’re trying to attain. Because I know you and I feel differently about that. so I was curious, like your and we’ve had this conversation a lot lately, so I was curious your thoughts about that.

Giacomo (21:00)
We could we could

argue if you’d like, I disagree with you. Wholeheartedly.

Dani Taylor (21:02)
Ha ha ha

Coach Alice Robeson (21:04)
Mm-hmm.

Dani Taylor (21:04)
Just kidding.

Ben (21:05)
So so

Giacomo (21:05)
We we

could spice it up.

Ben (21:06)
I’m guessing that

I’m guessing that Giacomo it feels that conditioning is the card for him to play in order to have his best competitive result. And Danny feels that Giacomo’s best competitive result may be actually maybe not going a hundred percent with the conditioning, but more ninety percent and perhaps saving some of that fullness for other muscle groups. So Giacomo prevent.

Present your case and let’s see if I let’s see if I teed that up correctly.

Coach Sawyer (21:33)
That

really does track what their personality types.

Dani Taylor (21:36)
Yeah.

Giacomo (21:37)
Gosh, where do I begin? Well, I think I had a lot of lifestyle things working against me in twenty twenty-two. And you could say that those lifestyle things were caused by my desire to be more conditioned than I needed to be, but I think I was just in a bad place, like as far as my stress levels were concerned. And I don’t think I had the

maturity as a bodybuilder to bring the package that I wanted to bring back then or make the sacrifices that I needed to make back then. So I think the next time around it’s going to be very different for me, that’s for sure. But simply put, I would I would a hundred percent lean into conditioning. For me personally, as a bodybuilder, it’s a strength of mine. So I would lean into that. And just in general for the bodybuilding division, you need the conditioning or go to a different

division if you’re not ready to be as lean as you need to be in bodybuilding to be able to place well. You can so I can grow into the bodybuilding division, but I still need to honor the division for what it is. And I need to reach bodybuilding conditioning levels to be in that division or I need to be in a different division.

Coach Alice Robeson (22:40)
I think that’s true for most divisions. I mean, bikini competitors face the exact same like dilemma when we’re leaning out, you know, like chasing those tie-ins. And a lot of times it comes at a cost of like looking to lean up top and trying to make those decisions and I mean, a lot of times that the best thing to do is more than one competition and see how you like your your look.

you know, different stages when you’re up there o again and again at different levels of leanness. So yeah, I think we all

Coach Sawyer (23:12)
Yeah.

Coach Alice Robeson (23:13)
have to deal with that to some extent. I don’t know what the men’s physique equivalent would be of glutes. I mean, unless they’re really trying to get a Christmas tree or something.

Coach Sawyer (23:21)
Yeah, maybe that.

Ben (23:22)
Yeah, like

the those the crispy crispy abs. I was gonna ask Sawyer, like obviously

Competitive perspective, not there for yourself, but I feel like you could maybe even relate to this in an extent where it’s like you’re getting to a point in a diet where, hey, you would love to lose that last little bit of body fat from a certain area. Like for you, I know maybe it’s maybe like the lower abs area that tends to come in a little bit leaner, but then it’s all these other side effects that start happening as a result

Coach Sawyer (23:48)
Mm-hmm.

Ben (23:48)
of the diet if you push it too far. Do you feel like you can relate to that to some extent?

Coach Sawyer (23:52)
Yeah, definitely. mean, like, yeah, it gets to a point for me pretty quickly where I’m like, okay, this is not worth it. Also, I do look back at certain pictures and I’m like, dang, I really like my fullness to lean this there. And I do find myself just from like a everyday walking around perspective being like, I want to try to just like capture that and kind of stay within those lines because I think it looks really cool to have a certain…

like look that you’re able to capture and have the skill to like manage that. Especially like Giacomo was saying like this late in the game, if you’ve been training a long time and you’re kind of like, okay, like I could definitely make some improvements in these places, but like now I’ve got this kind of idea of my body and my proportions and my potential. And so yeah, I’m going to maximize that and try to grow, but I still want to stay within certain.

kind of boundaries, that fine-tuning stuff is getting more and more interesting to me as I get into my upper bodybuilding, I don’t know, bodybuilding years, you could call them.

Coach Alice Robeson (24:55)
That’s been my dilemma like this entire prep so far, for me personally, is like every time I see my new set of progress photos, it’s like, do I feel happy about this? Because

Coach Sawyer (25:08)
Hmm.

Coach Alice Robeson (25:09)
it’s it’s almost I mean, I understand, of course, the science that, okay, I’m losing body fat, right? I’m hanging on to my muscle. But, you know, I think we all can

really. Like when you look back at prior competition photos, it’s like, man, I don’t want to look that lean, that small, whatever, fill in the blank, whatever word you choose again. And so there’s a lot of like anticipation and anxiety over like, I’m you know, I’m just like losing my nice full look, which I’ve definitely grown to love throughout my bodybuilding career and now more and more strongly preferring my my off season look.

There’s pros and cons. Like it’s like, yeah, I’m glad that I’m l I c I can see that I’m losing fat, but it’s like, man, my legs

Coach Sawyer (25:54)
No, you’re right.

Like it’s, it’s always a balance, right? So that’s the hard part. Yeah.

Coach Alice Robeson (25:58)
Yeah.

Dani Taylor (25:58)
So for me, like from a competitive c perspective, you know, there’s symmetry that they’re judging, there’s your size, there’s your conditioning, there’s your presentation. But there’s also something that you can’t put your finger on. Like you it’s like this person looks like a bodybuilder. This person is a bodybuilder. And I feel like for a lot of people, there is a line when they’re getting so lean.

That they stop looking like a bodybuilder, even if their symmetry is still good or the size is still like okay, like there’s something about it that doesn’t say bodybuilder anymore. And there’s just like an X factor that some people have when they come on stage, even if their conditioning isn’t quite there, even if something is a little bit off about like their symmetry, you’re just like, that’s a bodybuilder. And I just feel like it’s hard to explain because.

There is no cry, like who is the most bodybuilder looking person on stage? I mean, I guess that would be symmetry, is what they’re going for, is like the right shape for the right category. I guess that’s probably the closest thing. So to me, like that is the most important thing. And it’s not worth losing that X factor to get, you know, a little bit more.

feathers in your quads or something like that. It would have to be a really tight competition for it to come down to that anyway. And if you’re losing your symmetry, you’re not part of that tight competition anymore. That’s the way that I see it. It’s not about what I think looks better or worse, because I think all of us would probably agree we actually prefer something that’s not a stage lean look for just like what looks quote unquote good. But in the competition, like I feel like that’s just how I have always seen it.

Ben (27:37)
That was like something that I was kind of thinking about a lot this prep as well. Is I felt like last time I got I got like really, really shredded. But by the end of it, I was like, I don’t even I don’t like the way that I look. Like I look freaky. I look like I don’t even recognize myself. And so it’s weird because you’re kind of you’re obviously you’re doing it for a purpose, like you’re doing it for the show, for the panel of judges. But I also kind of was asking myself this prep, I was like,

Do I want to just get lean and die down for the show for the sake of presenting a physique that I don’t like just because it’s going to be competitive? Or do I want to try to like balance those two things where I have a physique that I like and that I’m proud of and is competitive and kind of finding that that balance for myself? And so I think that’s also another, I guess I could say, reason why I’m kind of at peace with the fact that like

If my feedback is that I need to be leaner, like I’m okay with that because I like the physique that I have right now. And

Dani Taylor (28:39)
Mm-hmm.

Ben (28:39)
I think it’s competitive enough, but it it’s not to the point where it’s like I’ve gotten I’ve lost like like you were saying, like I don’t look like a bodybuilder anymore. Like I look like somebody who’s a little bit emaciated for lack of a better term.

Dani Taylor (28:52)
Mm-hmm. All right.

Ben (28:53)
and I l I lose some of that shape and that fullness and you know.

I think having more muscle mass obviously helps with that. but you al always have to consider as well, like when you’re getting lean, how much like I think something that people don’t always fully grasp is the amount of muscle mass that you have dictates how lean you can get without it hurting other aspects of your presentation. so I feel like that’s been something that I’ve like come to terms with as well. Like it’s not just about getting shredded, shredded, shredded, like there’s there’s trade offs.

Yeah, I mean if anyone wants to riff on that, that’s cool. I did I would I did kind of wanna bring it back to Giacomo then and I was curious you know, where where you’re at with your bodybuilding process in terms of, you know, when you might consider competing again or things that you’re working on, or how your off season’s going since the last time that you competed, anything that you wanted to share?

Giacomo (29:40)
Well,

I want to pivot over here because we’re talking a lot about leanness and aesthetics and dieting and competition and all this stuff. And I feel like we’ve gone pretty far deep down into this rabbit hole. So the thing that I wanna throw out there to everyone is the idea of well, when you do something like this, it introduces more structure and discipline into your life. And I was saying this to somebody at the gym yesterday and he kind of looked at me like, What are you talking about?

Because he hadn’t heard it before, but us as coaches, we it’s like a duh. When you do something that’s hard, like compete, you’re able to get healthier and fitter in spite of competing, not because of competing, right? That said, if you’re really, really smart about it and you have a fitness coach and you focus on making yourself grow and bec and you focus on becoming a better athlete and

airgo, you need to be a better person to continue to be an athlete while a better athlete while I’m I hope that you feel that way if you’re listening to this, because if not, you’re probably in the wrong place. When you compete, it can make you a better person in spite of competing. But you obviously don’t have to compete to become a better person and a better athlete and experience growth. But I’m hoping, Ben, that whatever you’re doing while you’re you while you have tunnel vision on competing, I hope that it I hope that you’re finding some growth that you can you can experience post competition.

I know for myself, for example, like four years ago, right? Granted, I did all I did plenty of textbook classically unhealthy things, right? Not just with my programming, but also with my my mind, my mindset was not in the right place, my heart was not in the right place. But if you look at what I was eating, I wasn’t like extreme clean eater, right? But I was I definitely cleaned up my habits. Like so if you were to look at my quote unquote diet from three weeks ago, you would see me having

Plenty of sugary things, plenty of thing, plenty of bready things. Not that I eat unhealthy, but any stretch imagination. But if you were to compare it to like, okay, now I’m starting prep and I want to be healthier and clean things up. Now I’m having more fruits, more vegetables, more greens. Like it’s just, it, it, there’s no comparison, right? Because I know that I need the energy, I know that I need the nutrient density. I know that those sugary things are going to cause unnecessary cravings and make me want to eat.

more of what I don’t want to eat. And obviously I don’t have the calorie budget, but that’s a moot point. But to answer your question, Ben, as far as what I’m doing now, I’m not I’m focusing more on training, right? Than nutrition, honestly. And I’m like super duper geeking out on my form. And I go into the gym and I want to destroy things. So much so that I need to wear a night guard now while I train because if I don’t, my teeth hurt and I can’t chew food because I’m like

Really really training really hard. Why you Danny’s shaking her head? What’s the matter? It’s so me. Yeah. Well, in all fairness,

Dani Taylor (32:24)
It’s just so very you. It’s just so very you, that’s all.

Giacomo (32:29)
my fake teeth are clamping down on my real teeth, and that’s that’s hurting because they’re made of whatever it is, some fake rock or what have you. But I my coach was trying to get me to train hard. He’s like, You’re going in, you’re carrying your responsibilities from the day, and you’re bringing them into the gym, you’re worrying about

Whether or not you’re gonna make gains, you are in there and you’re working on your phone and you’re listening to music. Like, how could you be focusing on your training? What are you doing? So I put my phone, my phone goes away and I go in there and I write my workout on a piece of paper. And I have nothing, I my senses are all focused on training. I mean, think about it. It’s 2026. I have artificial intelligence. I have

Eight different things that I want to pay attention to in my personal life. I have an innumerable innumerable amount of things in front of me for my my job. And how could I possibly focus all of my five senses on training? And how could I possibly be there focused on training if I have distractions, if I have things in my ears, if I have a thing in my hands? So that yes, the

Coach Sawyer (33:28)
The kids are calling that raw dogging by the way, to be,

Giacomo (33:31)
the

Coach Sawyer (33:32)
yeah, it’s a great, great term. Well, no, that’s the point, man, that’s the point. Love it.

Giacomo (33:32)
I I don’t know. I don’t want to tell you where my mind goes when I hear raw dogging, but we’re gonna stick with it. We’re going with it. We’re going with it. Sure. Sure. Raw dogging it. Fine. So I’m raw dogging it. And when I raw dog it in

the gym, that’s going well. But I’m also doing video analysis, taking my

Coach Sawyer (33:46)
you

Giacomo (33:48)
raw dog like training and looking at my exercises to make sure that I

Coach Sawyer (33:52)
This is awesome.

Giacomo (33:53)
am improving and training harder and I’m getting very technical with it. But to your point.

Like there’s other things that I’m doing too. Obviously, my sleep has been I haven’t slept as good in my entire life. I sleep between seven to eight and a half hours a day. Whereas for socioeconomic reasons, my sleep has averaged anywhere on a on a good year from like, why she laughing again? What’d I do now? What?

Dani Taylor (34:14)
You just say the funniest things.

That’s all. Go ahead, continue.

Coach Sawyer (34:17)
Socioconomics is a funny way. It’s like

Giacomo (34:19)
Okay, so because because

Coach Sawyer (34:20)
an economic term.

Giacomo (34:21)
I’m a because I’m a busy doll, a busy adult with too many responsibilities,

and I’m too focused on trying to do it all,

Coach Sawyer (34:29)
Yeah.

Giacomo (34:31)
I don’t sleep. okay, here here’s here’s a way to dumb it down. Forget the the the stupid geeky talk. I’m a New Yorker, I make I squeeze every last drop out of my life, I live my life as quick as a tick in a New York minute to quote a rapper, and I don’t know who his name is right now. Is that better for you?

So and and I just don’t sleep. You know, I was the kind of I was the kind of student who would pull in all night or the night before, hopped up on caffeine to like six in the morning, unfocused, because I just couldn’t sleep because I was so nervous, so anxious, and I needed to study everything instead of getting a good night’s sleep, being able to retain more and do more. But there is a limit, like your brain just doesn’t work properly if you don’t sleep. And to me, it’s I want to recover, I want to perform.

And I want to grow muscle. It’s like I was watching a documentary a couple months ago. And this guy was going to bed for like two hours and waking up. And he would wake up and he would bench 135 and he would run 10 miles. And I’m looking at him. I’m like, okay, for you, this makes sense because you’re trying to survive. You want to climb Mount Everest and six other mountains in three months. If you’re going to do that, you need to survive. You need survival. I don’t, for me to be a better athlete, survival is not going to help me at all. If I focus on survival,

I’m not going to be a good athlete. In my if I want my muscles to grow, I need to sleep a lot. and as a side benefit, I’m a happier, healthier person. I have I’m less I’m less reactionary when I when I hang out with people. so I’m easier to be around. I’m able to think through things better. I’m able to hopefully live longer and healthier. And I’m able to, of course, for me, the main thing is here, I want to grow muscle. That’s that’s what it is. That’s what it boils down to.

So I guess thankfully I have bodybuilding because if I was, I don’t know, military or trying to climb mountains, I probably wouldn’t sleep much and I would just run myself ragged. But but yeah, no, that’s that’s been my focus.

Coach Sawyer (36:11)
I think there plenty of people running themselves

ragged in bodybuilding. It’s that you’re listening and surrounding yourself with the kind of advice of people who care about you as a person and also who want you as an athlete to be better equipped to handle it on your own and more healthy in general. And I like this tangent you went down actually because I was just talking to two former clients actually just randomly.

Well, one hit me up, the other one I hit up because I was just curious and like it’d been cool to catch up with the other one. And they both were, I’m going to toot my own horn here, but they were both like singing my praises for how much I taught them and stuff. And I was like, this is kind of crazy because I actually didn’t know this when we were working together. I was like, I remember thinking at certain points of like, want to, I hope I help these people with like these things. And because there wasn’t like a

like a massive like, you know, 90 day transformation. wasn’t like massive, photo differences, but then upon like talking to them a year later or whatever, one of them was saying like, dude, I went to other coaches after you and they just weren’t able to deliver the kind of specificity of like training advice you were. And I was like, wow, that’s really flattering. Thank you. And then the other one, it was something totally different where she had just learned to as a coping mechanism from when she was young, probably similar to you.

just like go, go, go, and like not give herself any downtime. And her family’s depending on her and she had to be the successful one. And she kind of kept stacking responsibilities on top of each other. And so we eventually, by the time we were done working together, we were like having more like therapy session type conversations, for lack of a better word. And she was like, that was the beginning of me really learning about myself and giving myself permission to like chill out with this stuff. so anyway, so long-winded way of saying like, I think bodybuilding and

fitness in general and coaching can be a vehicle for a lot of really good changes to like the whole person. And I like that you brought it there because it’s not always obvious that that’s what somebody needs because they come to you and they say, I want to look like this. I want to feel like that, yada, yada, yada. And then you work with them long enough and you’re like, you’re really good at a lot of this stuff. Let’s focus over here. And it just is like a cool experience to get to work with somebody. Like, I know you guys all know what I’m talking about, but I’m trying to explain to the audience, like,

how cool our job is really when you think about it. Like you get to see this person and like at first they’re kind of a puzzle, right? But then they become your friend and you’re like rooting for them in all these ways. And then you’re figuring things out about them and it feels like unlocking new levels. I don’t know. It’s like, it’s almost gamified in my brain. I don’t know. You guys have anything you want to say about that?

Coach Alice Robeson (38:44)
I think I think just like what stood out to me what you’re saying is just like don’t don’t do bodybuilding like as a singular person. Don’t don’t be in

Coach Sawyer (38:53)
Mm-mm.

Coach Alice Robeson (38:53)
a silo. Like don’t you need other people to help I don’t know, I think the default for most of us who get into bodybuilding or are really into fitness is to do too much and to stack too much on ourselves and to be too hard on ourselves and having more and more people

coming in your environment that are gonna have a positive thing to say and offer input that’s gonna give you a little bit more like balance for your perspectives. I

Coach Sawyer (39:20)
Mm-hmm.

Coach Alice Robeson (39:20)
think it’s really, really a powerful thing. So yeah, don’t do it alone. I think that’s the biggest like takeover.

Coach Sawyer (39:24)
I would say the same thing about

life. You know what I mean? Same thing about life. If you’re trying to like improve yourself, you’re trying to become a better rounded person, like it’s infinitely harder without good advice and good examples around you. Like if

Coach Alice Robeson (39:36)
Absolutely.

Coach Sawyer (39:37)
I didn’t have you guys and you know, Ben left cause he’s bored, but I’ll forgive him for now. But like literally

Coach Alice Robeson (39:41)
Ha ha ha

Dani Taylor (39:41)
Ha ha ha.

Coach Sawyer (39:44)
all everybody in this, this frame right here has made me a better person in different ways. And it’s so cool to feel like you’re in that environment, you know?

Ben, I was just singing your praises, man. You missed it. you can hear me. OK, OK, OK.

Ben (39:57)
no, I can hear everything. I well here’s y

you said everyone in this frame and I wasn’t in the frame, so I’m very, I’m

Coach Sawyer (40:02)
And you’re in the frame.

Ben (40:04)
very insulted and angered and I’m in prep, so I’m extra angry. no, I no, I had to

Dani Taylor (40:04)
Yeah.

Coach Sawyer (40:08)
Yeah, no good thing you’re over there and I’m over here

Coach Alice Robeson (40:08)
Ha ha

Dani Taylor (40:08)
Yeah.

Ben (40:11)
s speaking of being in prep, no, it’s the 20-minute bathroom break every 20 minutes, though. So that’s you know, that’s it. Alice knows. Yep, yep, yep.

Coach Sawyer (40:14)
Wow.

Dani Taylor (40:15)
Yeah.

Coach Alice Robeson (40:15)
Yep, I knew I knew it.

Coach Sawyer (40:19)
But then you were doing that, dude, when you visited me in California, you were still doing that shit. So

I don’t buy it. We, that’s crazy.

Ben (40:24)
yeah, I know. I know. And it’s and it’s e and it’s even worse now. I will say that

Coach Alice Robeson (40:24)
Ha ha

Ben (40:29)
increasing my my salt intake has helped with that, but it’s still not it’s still not it’s still not amazing. Did

Coach Sawyer (40:34)
I’m gonna get you a catheter, man. This is crazy.

Ben (40:36)
honestly. Danny,

Coach Alice Robeson (40:37)
Watch it.

Ben (40:38)
you were taking a bunch of notes when Giacomo was talking. I’m curious if you if you have anything that you’re adding. okay.

Dani Taylor (40:43)
I was just doodling. I was just doodling

Coach Sawyer (40:44)
I was gonna say,

Dani Taylor (40:45)
around. Yeah. that’s it.

Coach Sawyer (40:46)
you probably caught her doing a little bit of something.

Ben (40:47)
That it reminds

me of a really funny story from when I was younger. So my I was playing with my sister. I was probably like, I don’t know, 12 or 13 or something, and she would have been seven. And she was like, like telling me all these things, and I was like pretending to write them down and taking notes on it. And then she’s like, she’s like, I wanna see, I wanna see. And I flipped it around and I had just like drawn a bit

an image of like Darth Vader and she like r she like ran away crying. She was like Bam just ran away crying. We tell that story sometimes.

Coach Sawyer (41:19)
That’s me.

Dani Taylor (41:19)
It’s amazing.

Coach Alice Robeson (41:21)
Ha ha.

Dani Taylor (41:23)
yeah, sometimes like doodlin doodling around

Coach Sawyer (41:23)
But for a moment she felt so special.

Dani Taylor (41:26)
it helps me actually listen sometimes when a lot of people are talking. So yeah.

Giacomo (41:30)
I actually picked up that habit

Coach Alice Robeson (41:30)
Time.

Giacomo (41:31)
from Danny. So I have some sensory stuff. I have I keep a little putty here, but then I also have this thing that I like to fidget around with. It’s a little Zen cat litter box that I got for you, Danny, but you did not like it. So I I use it. Daisy, my niece came in. She’s like, Yeah, she’s

Coach Sawyer (41:46)
Is it a cat litter box or a zen… garden?

Giacomo (41:48)
like, What’s going on? Is that cat poop? I’m like, No, it’s rocks, but it looks like cat poop, doesn’t it? And she’s

Dani Taylor (41:51)
god.

Giacomo (41:52)
like starting to like, yeah. No, I d I’m

Coach Sawyer (41:52)
Hehehehehe

Giacomo (41:55)
definitely a f I didn’t used to be a fidgeter, but for sure I picked that.

Habit up from you, Danny. It’s a good one.

Dani Taylor (42:00)
You’re welcome.

Coach Sawyer (42:00)
I can’t imagine

Coach Alice Robeson (42:01)
Daisy’s

got a sense of humor. She’s

Coach Sawyer (42:01)
you as not a fidgeter.

Coach Alice Robeson (42:02)
got some zingers that I think now are not as accidental.

Dani Taylor (42:07)
huh, yep.

all right, who wants to go next? Alice or Sawyer?

Coach Sawyer (42:11)
For

what? we’re just like giving updates? yeah. Yeah, go ahead, buddy.

Dani Taylor (42:12)
Just what are you up what are you up to? What’s your tri I wanna hear okay, Alice, you go ahead, because we’re we

Coach Alice Robeson (42:16)
Yeah, I guess since

we’re on the bodybuilding theme, so that

Dani Taylor (42:18)
Yeah.

Coach Alice Robeson (42:19)
we’re not like gonna jump away and then jump back.

Dani Taylor (42:22)
Mm-hmm.

Coach Alice Robeson (42:23)
so if anyone if y’all are following me on social or listening to these podcasts, you know that I’m in bodybuilding prep and tried to make a semi formal announcement about it. you know, I’ve been working on this since about April at least to start it out as, I’m I’m shifting towards a cut. and then the further into it I got, the more it was just like, you know what, I need I need to get on stage.

my original goal was to wait a year to another year to compete and you know, compete like mid to late 2027. And the wrench was thrown right in my plans. It just reached a point where I was I was too I wanna say like I’d been uncomfortable for too long, right? in my bulk. And yeah, so after a a year and a half, I just lost patience. and the biggest thing is like

new goal to compete in women’s physique if I feel that I’m a good fit for the category, if I, you know, as I continue to lean out. Definitely considered like a more advanced b women’s bodybuilding category. So you never know what’s gonna happen though, because in natural bodybuilding, it things are kind of different. A lot of it is the posing. When you see these women backstage, a lot of them are kind of

kind of similar sizes. It’s not that one is just like extremely more gigantic than the other. And so that’s that’s always like an interesting thing to think about. You know, you don’t have the ability as a natural athlete to get to these like absurdly muscular levels that is what most people think of when they see bodybuilding. But so I’m just really curious because I know that my body has changed a lot when I

Was down in North Carolina with my client Michael competing. we met up with Rachel Clark. She came and supported him and watched the show and hung out with us. We all got his celebratory meal afterwards, and like the first thing she said to me, she’s like, I can tell you’ve put on muscle. And I’m like, it’s the nicest thing anyone’s ever said to me.

Dani Taylor (44:20)
Yeah.

Coach Sawyer (44:22)
Yeah, you like women are used

to being told they’re really pretty. You’re like, yeah, yeah, yeah. OK, but tell me about my biceps real quick. I like that.

Coach Alice Robeson (44:31)
So it’s amazing. And and Rachel Clark it is a women’s physique competitor and she looks amazing. And I’m really excited for her to step on stage again. We’re both always we we send voice messages back and forth every couple weeks to catch up. And a lot of times that conversation includes, When are we getting on stage next? So

Dani Taylor (44:49)
Mm-hmm.

Coach Alice Robeson (44:50)
But you know, I really, really love the category. it’s just like women’s physique, I feel like is more about showcasing the beauty and femininity of muscle on women. Whereas, you know, bikini, it’s more like it’s it’s like that beach sexy body. there’s fewer poses, the look is a little bit more, I don’t know, streamlined. for women’s physique, you can see some more like different bodies up there. you wear a different suit, you go on stage barefoot.

and of course, like the posing is a lot more like what you would think of as like traditional bodybuilding, like men’s bodybuilding. So I’ve been dabbling a little bit in in the posing, trying to help motivate myself because it’s already been a really long diet. And it’s already like, ooh, this is there’s there’s a lot of struggle to like keep pushing and keep going, especially because now I’m at a weight and

That was like my prior s like top

Dani Taylor (45:47)
Yes.

Coach Alice Robeson (45:48)
weight. So I’m like, I’m I’m happy, like I could I could just live here.

Dani Taylor (45:53)
Mm-hmm.

Coach Alice Robeson (45:54)
So it’s it’s really like throwing me for a loop. And I just went to go visit my brother in San Francisco, and actually he’s out here this week too, now two weeks later. I just my sister just had a baby, so I’m an auntie now.

And I am like going to go have a lot of family time. I’m seeing this baby at least twice a week, if I can help it. And like it I don’t know, it’s just really interesting like how your priorities seem to get like turned upside down and and really confusing when there’s big life changes. You literally have this new baby in your life. you travel and see family and see their lifestyles.

and you know some of the people that I’m just closest to. So it’s it’s interesting. It’s it’s been it’s been an interesting journey. now I’m kind of like, do I want to commit to competing in December? Especially because I don’t know exactly where I’m gonna land. I don’t know if I’m gonna reach a certain leanness and be like, no, this is this is definitely a bikini look and I can see myself doing great on a bikini stage.

or if I’ll keep going and it’s like, no, I feel like I can hold my own up there on a women’s physique stage. There’s also a little bit more like con confusion. this is very first world problems, but like I do have a pro card and I prefer OCB. I don’t really, you know, originally I wasn’t thinking about competing in other federations, but when you have your pro card, you can’t you’re not really supposed to be competing in other categories as amateur. So it’s like

All right, so does that mean I have that that sounds like I have to go up there and compete at Women’s Physique Pro, right? and so there’s way, way less like shows available for women’s physique competitors. especially at the pro level. They don’t really even start in the OCB until May for The Conqueror in Baltimore. So that just throws a wrench in my plans of being like, Yeah, I’d love to step on stage in December. So

looking at some different federations, maybe ANBF. and I don’t know if IMBF, WMBF just hasn’t posted, you know, their early shows for twenty twenty seven, but it looks like they’re they don’t have anything up there now until July. It’s like worlds in November and then it’s like July.

Dani Taylor (48:14)
Say this

women’s physique in WMBF, they wear heels. So keep that in mind. It’s called Fit Body, but they wear heels and it’s it’s such a bad look. Like it doesn’t even look good. You’re not supposed to do those poses and heels. I don’t know why they still do that, but just keep it in mind, because I’ve had a couple people be very unpleasantly surprised with that fact. So

Coach Alice Robeson (48:33)
Not a fan.

Ben (48:33)
Back double bicep

and heels is brutal.

Dani Taylor (48:36)
Abs thighs and heels? awful. Yeah. Yeah. Right. I’m surprised we don’t

Coach Alice Robeson (48:36)
Yeah. How like I’m just gonna like topple over because you have to like contort so much. People don’t realize how much you have to bend your spine, guys.

Ben (48:38)
yeah.

Dani Taylor (48:46)
see more people wipe out, honestly. But whatever.

Coach Alice Robeson (48:49)
But yeah, I mean

I’m just I’m just excited for the new challenge. the the me practicing posing on my own has been really, really fun. I understand at some point I need to get like a posing coach, but I feel like I wanna get like a baseline level of

Dani Taylor (49:03)
Mm-hmm.

Coach Alice Robeson (49:03)
like skill developed before I talk to a professional. plus it’s just like chill and fun at this point. And it’s gonna be also another new challenge, like you have to get significantly leaner. You know

Ben’s talking about being in a category, we don’t have to sit well, it doesn’t have to get quite as lean. Mine’s the opposite. and so, but the more I look at the category, the more I’m like, you know what, women’s physique doesn’t have to get nearly as lean as as men’s bodybuilders do. still there is a difference. There is gonna be a big difference to what my prep is going to look like and how far I’m going to have to take the prep. my last my last season.

I just did steps. I just did a ton of daily steps and never did any formal cardio and I’m prepared now, preparing myself slash prepared to to do more. because it’s gonna it’s gonna push my body to new limits and I’m I’m excited to tell it to learn. so that’s that’s in a nutshell where where I’m at right now. I’m just a little bit of flailing at the moment, like what’s going on

Dani Taylor (50:03)
Mm.

Coach Alice Robeson (50:04)
with my life with this baby and and being at at this

recovering from vacation mindset and trying to figure out do I want to, you know, push push the limit and try to make something happen in December, or do I wanna try and drag this out until spring? Which would probably be the smarter mindset. I am not a person who can be like one and done as far as a competition. I know I’m gonna get up there and I’m gonna be like, how much longer can I can I keep doing this? How

Dani Taylor (50:31)
Mm.

Coach Alice Robeson (50:31)
many more times can I get up on that stage?

So I have to

Dani Taylor (50:34)
Yeah.

Coach Alice Robeson (50:35)
I’m trying to be strategic about it because I know myself.

Dani Taylor (50:38)
Yeah. And once you’re in December, like there’s not a lot of options again until like March. They don’t stop par start popping up again till March. That’s a long time to hold it. I don’t know, it’s a lot to think about.

Coach Alice Robeson (50:49)
Thumbs up. Yeah. And then it’s like, do I just compete in both? Do I try it, you know, if I can make it down to women’s physique, do I go back and see how I look as you know coming in as a fuller bikini athlete? I think right now I’m just like in a very like excited and experimental phase. you know, and the reality is I could be crushed by trying to get women’s physique lean and be like, hey, I’m

actually gonna be done com you know with this season a lot sooner than the past, mentally

Dani Taylor (51:20)
Mm.

Coach Alice Robeson (51:21)
done. so there’s so much there’s so much that you don’t know. There’s so much that you’re learning and experimenting with. And then it’s it’s it’s been a beautiful like journey for me, but definitely like there’s just so many question marks that’s a little bit maddening.

Dani Taylor (51:36)
Yeah. I if if I ever competed again, which I don’t think I’m ever going to, but if I did, I would have to take the Ben approach that he’s taking right now. It would have to be like the chillest sail-in to a show ever, where I didn’t even really think about it that hard until I absolutely had to. Cause I feel like the kind the like neuroses that has to come along with prep a lot of the time is like that’s the part that’s gonna

Well, that and the hunger, for sure, the hunger. But like that’s the part that’s gonna kind of drive me insane is like the the phase of that just like kind of constantly thinking about it and all of the pieces that it entails. I don’t know, man. It’s it’s a lot more than I think people realize. That’s all.

Coach Alice Robeson (52:19)
Yeah.

Giacomo (52:19)
I

was onboarding

Coach Sawyer (52:20)
Yeah, that terrifies me.

Giacomo (52:22)
a new client

Dani Taylor (52:22)
Mm-hmm.

Giacomo (52:23)
of mine yesterday and we were talking about stuff and he was like, I’m gonna do whatever it takes and this and that. I’m like, listen, all I really

Dani Taylor (52:29)
Ha

Giacomo (52:29)
need you to do is to get protein in three times in a day and eat something before and after you train. Because he was having like this four hour feeding window and he wasn’t focused on protein, and now he’s like, I’m willing to do whatever it takes. I’m like, listen, this isn’t the military.

If you need

Dani Taylor (52:43)
Mm.

Giacomo (52:43)
that, if that’s for you, that level of detail, if it gives you a sense of control, if it gives you if it motivates you, you can do that. But that’s not what you need to do. It’s there are very simple things here, and that’s that’s pretty much it. Now whatever that looks like for you, I’m good with it. So I think there’s a lot of merit to pulling to reeling people in who are very type A, but to also giving people a lot of flexibility when it comes to

to do things as opposed to say because it’s it’s funny right you i don’t know how do i say this i think when it comes to fitness and someone coming to the quote unquote expert to coach you want to give that your coach buy-in you wanna you don’t want to grab your throw your opinion into the mix even when a coach asks you to and you’re like I want to do what I’m told I don’t know what I’m doing and I want you to give me the programming and I want structure and want discipline I’m like wait a minute hold up let’s talk about this a little bit I know it’s a longer

route and a longer path to really think about like how this is going to be something you don’t plug into your lifestyle. Like fitness is something that when you phase out your coach, it’s something you do because it’s it’s not because of your routines, it’s because you enjoy it and because it worked for your personality, for your lifestyle and it encouraged you to be a better person. Like you grew as a person, not just as an athlete. So yeah. And I think if you approach approach it in the very utility-based way, even if it’s like your kind of personality,

you could I’m gonna try a metaphor. I’m gonna try. You can miss the forest for the trees, through the trees, in the trees. I know. Which one? One of those three have to land. That one.

Dani Taylor (54:08)
That’s no you had it, you got it, you had it right, you had it right. For the trees. For the trees.

Coach Sawyer (54:13)
You

Giacomo (54:14)
There you go. So, but you know, to Danny’s point, like with Alice and Ben right now, it it bodybuilding comes with a higher degree of neuroticism. So when you hear us as coaches talking about our personal endeavors here as athletes, that’s not how we coach people. If anything, like we make sure that we

Ask our clients to really strongly consider not pulling that lever because it can get you in a not necessarily get you in a heap of trouble, but it can be a means to an end, put it that way. And if you’re miserable about something, even if you don’t realize it, you’ll probably stop doing it eventually. So, but but yeah, no, competing definitely and bodybuilding specifically, ha you have to put you have to take it there at some point. So,

yeah.

Coach Alice Robeson (54:49)
And there are

certain things that are already kicking my butt that I never expected to start impacting me as quickly as they did. The biggest thing being sleep. you know, I’m not even in a super aggressive calorie deficit at this point. Like, I I’m still able to get some pretty good results with, you know, what other people would look at and be like, that’s a lot, you know?

Dani Taylor (55:12)
Mm.

Coach Alice Robeson (55:13)
And already my sleep is just like.

Dani Taylor (55:15)
Mm.

Coach Alice Robeson (55:16)
Really,

really struggling, you know. I’m waking up 2 a.m., 4 a.m. and struggling to get back to sleep, and it’s like I’m not even that lean yet. Like I’ve lost a lot of weight. But I

Dani Taylor (55:26)
Mm.

Coach Alice Robeson (55:28)
thought that this I thought that the sleep wouldn’t be impacted until, you know, maybe 10 pounds or less like

Dani Taylor (55:35)
Yeah.

Coach Alice Robeson (55:35)
away from stage lo weight, which I’m probably, you know, 15-ish. I don’t know. I don’t know. So I’m I have a little bit of like

mind blowing going on over my sleep situation. My sleep temporarily got better because of jet lag when we went to Anaheim and then coming back. I had this really small window of like just sweet sleep. But

Dani Taylor (55:57)
Mm-hmm.

Coach Alice Robeson (55:58)
it did not take long. It was just like, nope, we’re right back where we were at with the struggle bus, waking

Coach Sawyer (56:03)
Hmm.

Coach Alice Robeson (56:04)
up for no reason in the middle of the night. So yeah, that’s probably that’s probably part of the reason why I’m just like flailing because

Coach Sawyer (56:10)
Mm-hmm

Coach Alice Robeson (56:11)
My sleep

is impacting my mental health, I’m sure.

Dani Taylor (56:13)
Mm-hmm.

Absolutely. Sleep plays such a huge

Coach Sawyer (56:16)
Hard not to let it.

Dani Taylor (56:17)
role in all of that stuff. I’m I’m also still not back to normal East Coast sleep schedule yet from and that was

Coach Sawyer (56:23)
Hmm.

Dani Taylor (56:23)
like what a month ago. I I hate it so much. I cannot stand it. having nothing to do with bodybuilding or deficit, just changing time is terrible. all right. Sawyer, what are you up to?

I know what we

Coach Sawyer (56:34)
Well…

Dani Taylor (56:35)
just all well, I don’t know if everybody else listened to it, but I listened to the podcast between you and Ben, where you guys

talked about a little bit of what you were up to, so

Coach Sawyer (56:39)
Yeah, yeah, I was going to say, we don’t need

to talk too much about fitness stuff because I think we did a pretty good job explaining it in that podcast. And that’s the same, you know, same plan right now. It was only like a couple of weeks ago. So that’d

Dani Taylor (56:51)
Mm-hmm.

Coach Sawyer (56:52)
be a pretty bad sign if I was already jumping ship. But otherwise, like in my personal life, we’re about to apply for the Spanish digital nomad visa, which is really exciting.

And so I’m happy about that. That’s been a little bit stressful, but all good. And making music, which is really fun. And Danny, you helped out with one of the songs already, which has been so much fun to collab with you. And I don’t know. I don’t know if everybody knows this about you, but like you are incredibly musically talented and would never admit to it. So don’t even, I know you’re going to just

denounce everything and put up a shield and say, no, I’m terrible.

Dani Taylor (57:32)
Ha ha ha.

Coach Sawyer (57:33)
Don’t worry about it. But no, truth is you’re really good at it. And it also makes the projects that I do like way more fun to collaborate with you and the twins on. And it just like, I don’t know, for me, I’m realizing how much shared experiences are so much healthier and more fun for me, like fitness wise, like I miss having a training buddy. I love.

writing music with people. love like co-op video games. I’m like all my best memories, all my best moments are like shared experiences. And so I’m just trying to, after I move away to Europe where I don’t know anybody, trying to create as many shared experiences as I can. So I think it’s cool that technology allows a lot of that. I love my job for that. And it’s cool that I work with people that I like.

I’m genuinely friends with, which is really cool. So thanks for being good friends.

Dani Taylor (58:19)
I was gonna ask you if you’ve

if you’ve actually been able to like make some friends, like in person friends out there yet.

Coach Sawyer (58:25)
Yeah,

yeah, we went on this like vegan tour when we got here back in February, actually, and then stayed in touch with those guys. They’re really cool. It was actually the person who put on the tour that we became friends with her and her husband. And so we’ve been hanging out with them. We went to like a VegFest equivalent last weekend, which was really fun. Not from my waistline. And.

But it was, it’s been fun. Like living here and being here, like intending to be here long term has been really cool. And Barcelona is just such a cool city and it feels more normal the second time we’re here after going to Albania, coming

Dani Taylor (58:58)
Mm-hmm.

Coach Sawyer (58:58)
back here. It’s weird how like it’s starting to feel like home, whatever that means. So it’s pretty cool. What else with me? family changes as well. Alice and I were talking about this.

is that my brother, crazy story, my brother hits me up like when I’m leaving Albania like a month ago or something and is like, hey, by the way, I’m having a kid with this woman that I had a fling with months back in like a couple weeks. Just drops that on me. And to his credit, he did say, you sitting down before he said that? So thanks, Reed.

Dani Taylor (59:29)
Ha ha ha.

Coach Sawyer (59:31)
But anyway, so our family’s just been like, what the hell’s going on? feels like that SpongeBob Mr. Krabs meme where he’s like, you know what saying? Like half

Dani Taylor (59:38)
Right.

Coach Sawyer (59:40)
of my humor is SpongeBob, by the way. I made you guys watch, remember Danny Giacomo? I made you guys watch SpongeBob. Giacomo promptly fell asleep. But Danny

Dani Taylor (59:46)
Yes.

Coach Sawyer (59:48)
watched it and I appreciated it because now she understands some of my references. And yeah, and that’s why we get along so well.

Dani Taylor (59:53)
And Daisy and Desmond’s re references also. Yeah.

Coach Sawyer (59:58)
my inner child and them are just like, we’re buds. So that happened. And then my sister, I don’t think I told you guys this, last week my sister calls me up and says, hey, I’m pregnant. So yeah, I’m like 12 weeks in.

Dani Taylor (1:00:10)
Whoa.

Coach Sawyer (1:00:10)
now we got, all of sudden the family’s just like growing a lot. And I was just like, kind of in a state of perpetual like, we’re just gonna all be, feel like kids forever. And this feels like a very,

big kind of turning point, especially now that I’m like, I’m gonna be in Spain indefinitely. So there’s like, yeah,

Coach Alice Robeson (1:00:25)
Yeah. that’d be so hard.

Coach Sawyer (1:00:28)
some family stuff going on and I’m like, shit, I should go visit these people now, especially.

Dani Taylor (1:00:32)
Yeah. See? Alice

Alice is figuring it out. I can see it on your face right now. Like, what would I do if I was far away from this baby, right? That’s been my

Coach Sawyer (1:00:35)
Yeah.

Dani Taylor (1:00:40)
last decade. Like

Coach Sawyer (1:00:42)
Yeah.

Coach Alice Robeson (1:00:42)
Yeah. Now we’re having those

discussions every day right now, me and Carson, so

Coach Sawyer (1:00:47)
really?

Dani Taylor (1:00:47)
Mm.

Coach Sawyer (1:00:47)
Yeah, and my

Dani Taylor (1:00:47)
Yeah. Yeah.

Coach Sawyer (1:00:48)
sister’s in Mexico by the way. So it’s like we’re all over the place too. So anyway, that’s my crazy life, but I’m grateful for it and for all of you and yeah, that’s where I’m at.

Dani Taylor (1:00:58)
Are you guys gonna

like a Christmas meetup or something? Like when is the next time you think you’re coming back here? I know that’s already a question mark, but

Coach Sawyer (1:01:03)
Probably, probably.

Whenever you guys play in the next retreat, probably is when I’ll come back.

Dani Taylor (1:01:08)
Yeah, Jock and I were talking about that a little bit this past couple week. We’re definitely gonna do it. It’s definitely gonna happen in twenty twenty seven. It will happen. Yeah.

Coach Sawyer (1:01:10)
I’m just gonna dangle that. I’m just gonna dangle that. You guys won’t see me.

Ben (1:01:12)
We’ve been I’ve I’ve had some I’ve okay,

Coach Alice Robeson (1:01:15)
Yeah.

Ben (1:01:17)
I’ve had some I’ve had some questions from clients about that. I and I told them

Coach Sawyer (1:01:20)
Yeah.

Dani Taylor (1:01:20)
Mm-hmm.

Ben (1:01:21)
that we’re we’d love to make it happen next year, hopefully.

Dani Taylor (1:01:23)
Yeah.

This was just this was just not the year. This wasn’t it for so many reasons. This was not the year. but

Coach Sawyer (1:01:26)
Fair enough.

Dani Taylor (1:01:30)
yeah, twenty twenty seven for sure. And I’m thinking I’m thinking somewhere around Salem Mass, ’cause you can fly into Boston and it’s easy. Whoops, sorry. and

Coach Sawyer (1:01:38)
How come you’re the only one that ever gets that?

Dani Taylor (1:01:40)
I it’s some setting I have on my Zoom or something,

Coach Sawyer (1:01:42)
Crazy.

Dani Taylor (1:01:43)
which I don’t know why it does that here, but whatever. you can fly into Boston, that’s an easy place to get to, and then it’s not that far of a drive from there, not like

Vermont and flying into Boston’s usually pretty cheap. most

Coach Sawyer (1:01:52)
Mm-hmm.

Dani Taylor (1:01:52)
people have Salem on their bucket list. They want to visit it at some point anyway. There’s good

Coach Sawyer (1:01:57)
true.

Dani Taylor (1:01:57)
vegan food around there. We have all of our stuff

Coach Sawyer (1:02:00)
Can we do it around Halloween?

Dani Taylor (1:02:01)
not too far. No. No. Yeah. Nope. Ben knows right now. I’m just

Coach Sawyer (1:02:04)
Too expensive, too crazy. Yeah, that makes sense.

Coach Alice Robeson (1:02:03)
be insane at Salem Mass. It would be like Disney

Ben (1:02:08)
If

Coach Alice Robeson (1:02:08)
World.

Ben (1:02:08)
I

was gonna say sorry, if you if you lived here you would know that that is not happening.

Coach Sawyer (1:02:11)
Whoops.

Dani Taylor (1:02:13)
No,

no. S summer? Summer, like everything’s open in summer and it’s nice and you can check all the cool stuff out. That’s and it’s not crazy expensive. We actually have a friend coming to visit us in November. so after Halloween, and him and his girlfriend are gonna stay in Salem for two days before they come stay here. Two nights, nine hundred dollars for the hotel. Yeah.

Coach Sawyer (1:02:33)
Wow.

Dani Taylor (1:02:34)
And I was like, holy shit, bro. And he was like, Yeah, it was three times that in October. So, yeah.

Coach Sawyer (1:02:39)
my god, that’s

crazy.

Dani Taylor (1:02:41)
I mean it’s right

in the heart of downtown Salem, but still that’s like

Coach Sawyer (1:02:44)
Damn.

Dani Taylor (1:02:45)
crazy. So yeah, you don’t want and it would I it wouldn’t even be fun. It’s like shoulder to shoulder. You can’t get in anywhere. Like it’s a nightmare, nightmare.

Ben (1:02:49)
Yep. it’s crazy.

Coach Sawyer (1:02:49)
Really? Wow.

Coach Alice Robeson (1:02:52)
I get

I get anxiety

Ben (1:02:52)
it’s crazy.

Coach Alice Robeson (1:02:53)
being in like Disney World and stuff. Like I can’t yeah, I can’t

Coach Sawyer (1:02:55)
Me too.

Coach Alice Robeson (1:02:56)
even put myself mentally in that space.

Dani Taylor (1:02:57)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Coach Sawyer (1:02:58)
That’s crazy.

That’s really crazy. Okay.

Yeah, we need updates on Danny.

Ben (1:03:01)
Danny, what’s going on with you? You shared a cool,

Dani Taylor (1:03:01)
So but hope.

Ben (1:03:05)
cool, cool update of of your quads and and

Dani Taylor (1:03:09)
yeah.

Coach Sawyer (1:03:09)
yeah.

Ben (1:03:11)
and and you

Coach Alice Robeson (1:03:10)
Yeah, talk to us about the clubs.

Ben (1:03:12)
also dropped like a video recently just talking about your experience switching from bodybuilding to to CrossFit. So anything you wanna share about that?

Dani Taylor (1:03:19)
So here’s something

ri I got a lot of good feedback from like our community about that video, but the embarrassing thing is that the owner of the gym also shared that video in the private gym like Facebook group. So now everybody that goes to the gym has watched it and I’ve basically been outed. which is not

Coach Sawyer (1:03:36)
Yeah, because you’re incognito.

You’re like, I’m not talking about

Coach Alice Robeson (1:03:40)
Yeah.

Coach Sawyer (1:03:41)
my

career, my profession. And now they all know.

Coach Alice Robeson (1:03:43)
Mm-hmm.

Dani Taylor (1:03:43)
Yep, it’s my

I mean, I knew the owner knew about it. It’s my fault for sh I just wanna be like, hey, look at all the clips of your gym in here, like how cool this is. And

Coach Sawyer (1:03:51)
you

Dani Taylor (1:03:51)
she she shared it there and I was like, Fuck, I should have thought that first.

Coach Sawyer (1:03:54)
Hmm.

Dani Taylor (1:03:55)
Cause now I’m eating a lot of sh I mean, people liked the video, but I’m also getting like poked at pretty good about it. Like, Danny’s famous. I don’t know if you knew, but Danny’s famous. And I’m like, please, please stop.

Yes, it is my worst nightmare.

Coach Sawyer (1:04:06)
my god. Yeah. Yeah.

Ben (1:04:06)
Your worst nightmare.

Dani Taylor (1:04:10)
but yeah, I mean

People if people are listening to this, they probably already watched that video, so I won’t rehash all of it, but still doing CrossFit, going four or five, or sometimes six times a week. It’s a lot.

Coach Sawyer (1:04:21)
Dang.

Dani Taylor (1:04:21)
Like, but I’m really, really enjoying it. it’s made me have to pay attention to my nutrition so much more because I cannot, I can’t under eat. Like

Coach Sawyer (1:04:31)
Mm.

Dani Taylor (1:04:31)
it everything will just go to shit really quickly if I under eat, which

You guys I mean you guys have seen me work and I just sit at this computer and don’t move for like 10 hours straight and forget to eat lunch and then I’m like, I gotta go to the gym and I’ve eaten nothing for the last several hours, like many, many hours. So then I’m like drinking apple ju apple sauce on the way out the door so that I have some carbs in my system, and that’s like that’s not good enough to like keep progressing anymore. yeah. No, no, it’s not.

Coach Sawyer (1:04:56)
What? Really? Just kidding. Applesauce only diet doesn’t work?

Dani Taylor (1:05:04)
Well, I’m just like it’s the fastest thing I have, like to get into my system on the way there, other than just like I actually have like candy in my gym bag right now for the same reason,

Coach Sawyer (1:05:12)
Hehehehe

Dani Taylor (1:05:13)
like just straight sugar.

Coach Sawyer (1:05:15)
my god.

Dani Taylor (1:05:17)
you know, just in case. But yeah, it’s been I don’t know, it’s been really fun. It’s been really, really, really, really hard. Like there is no day that it’s not unbelievably hard. And that’s been a really good practice for me, I think.

As somebody who’s just like pretty laid back about everything, to see something that hard and be like, yeah, okay, I guess I’ll do it. has been good. Been getting stronger. Last night I did a workout where I had I was able to do 10 banded muscle ups with the lightest bands that we have in that workout. Like, so not just getting it, but getting it while you already can’t breathe. So that’s the hardest part because it’s like doing the exercises by themselves, not that hard, doing them while you are fatigued.

Much, much, much, much harder than you would expect. And obviously, you have to be really careful about that so that you don’t get hurt. and I have to make this very clear to any of our audience, I am not doing this to change the way that I look because I feel like people might be getting the wrong impression that, I’m doing this new thing to build muscle. And I actually have a video coming out in a couple of weeks. that’s something like.

Here are the mistakes you’re making in the gym that are preventing you from building muscle or something like that. And a lot of the mistakes are things that I’m doing, like right now, right? Like doing different stuff all the time and not taking proper rests in between your sets and stuff like that. So I I understand that that might be like confusing to some of our audience, but my goals have just changed. That’s all. I’m happy with I mean, who doesn’t want more muscle? But for the most part, I’m like happy with the amount of muscle that I have. So that’s not the primary goal anymore.

That said.

Coach Sawyer (1:06:48)
You’re not allowed to say

that. I don’t think that’s legal to say that, that you’re happy with your animal. you have, that’s like crime number one in the book of bodybuilding.

Dani Taylor (1:06:54)
Well, here’s the thing, like

as I showed you guys the other night, I am actually building muscle.

Coach Sawyer (1:07:00)
Mm-hmm.

Dani Taylor (1:07:01)
it’s just like a byproduct of the methodology, which is essentially like drinking from a fire hose. You know? that’s

Coach Sawyer (1:07:08)
You

Dani Taylor (1:07:09)
what CrossFit is. It’s drinking from a fire hose. And yes, because it’s totally different and just like a shitload of volume.

And there’s like some good heavy close to failure stuff that we do at the beginning of the class too. Like I am building muscle, but I think it has more to do with the fact that I’m just more excited about it in general, that I’m showing up for it and like kind of bringing it more. So that’s been it is a shitload of volume.

Coach Sawyer (1:07:29)
And a shitload of volume.

Dani Taylor (1:07:32)
and it’s weird because sometimes it’s like the weight isn’t even heavy. It’s just so much volume.

that you know, like from a programming standpoint it’s like a bit maddening, honestly. But you know, whatever. I just feel like I’m not I’m not here trying to split hairs about the most efficient optimal way to build every gram or lose every gram of fat possible anymore. now it’s more about just like learn it’s just learning

Coach Sawyer (1:07:55)
That’s a healthy practice. Yeah.

Dani Taylor (1:07:57)
how to do cool shit now, and getting stronger. ‘Cause it’s yeah.

Coach Sawyer (1:07:59)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Coach Alice Robeson (1:08:01)
Being being conditioned, just being like

conditioned to

Dani Taylor (1:08:04)
Well, that’s a whole new world for me because that has never ever been anything that I’m remotely good at. So, but yeah, the other night I was just chilling on the couch, like just watching TV with my legs all splayed, blah, blah, blah. And I

Coach Sawyer (1:08:16)
Relax.

Dani Taylor (1:08:16)
we had just we had done a stupid workout. Like it was like genuinely stupid. It’s a benchmark workout. It’s called care and it’s a hundred and fifty wall balls for time with fourteen pounds, which is not

Coach Sawyer (1:08:27)
No thanks.

Dani Taylor (1:08:28)
a lot of weight, but it

I didn’t finish it by the way. I didn’t finish it under the time cap. It was on my hands and knees at the end. But maybe my l

Coach Sawyer (1:08:34)
You

Dani Taylor (1:08:35)
maybe my quads were kind of pumped up. I’m not sure because this was hours later, but that’s why I just flexed my quad and I was like, holy smokes! Like I could

Coach Sawyer (1:08:42)
You

Dani Taylor (1:08:43)
see the full three division in there. And it’s like I’m not even lean right now. Like, I mean lean-ish,

Coach Sawyer (1:08:49)
That’s cool.

Dani Taylor (1:08:52)
you know, but I’m not like actively trying to be lean at all. And then I

Coach Sawyer (1:08:55)
Hmm.

Dani Taylor (1:08:55)
sent you guys all a borderline inappropriate photo.

Coach Sawyer (1:08:58)
Hahaha

Dani Taylor (1:08:59)
I actually had to crop it before I sent it because I was like, mm, nope, nope, we’re not sending it like that. and I also t

Coach Alice Robeson (1:09:05)
What did you say? Like, looks

like I’m not wearing pants or something.

Dani Taylor (1:09:09)
Yeah, I I I definitely was wearing shorts, but

but I sent it to Giacomo also with no caption at all. And one, he didn’t answer me for like an entire twenty-four hours because he was out of town. And then when he did add, I was like, You didn’t even watch the he called and I was like, You didn’t even watch the video, go watch the video. And he finally watched the video and he texted me, like, is it a welt? Like, what am I s what am I looking at? And I was just like, he was like, You bastard. Like I’ve now I

Coach Sawyer (1:09:32)
Ouch. She’s like, I’m gonna get my validation

Coach Alice Robeson (1:09:31)
Well

Dani Taylor (1:09:35)
feel dumb like but

Coach Sawyer (1:09:35)
elsewhere. Yeah.

Dani Taylor (1:09:38)
I know what I saw. I know what I saw and I know I’ve never seen that like in that I mean not like I’m flexing my quads a lot in that position, but it was just, you know, when you’ve seen something on your body and you’re like, whoa, I’ve never seen that before. It was that. And my legs are yeah.

Coach Sawyer (1:09:48)
Mm-hmm. It’s cool after that long of a… sorry. Go ahead.

Dani Taylor (1:09:53)
Well it’s just like I’m t I’m on the taller side. You know, you two are on the taller side also. Like it’s hard to grow your legs when you’re on the taller side to get like actual size to go on them.

Coach Sawyer (1:10:03)
Yeah.

Dani Taylor (1:10:03)
so

to see some of that happening was like after

Coach Sawyer (1:10:06)
Mm-hmm.

Dani Taylor (1:10:06)
years of just hating lower body training in bodybuilding.

Coach Sawyer (1:10:10)
Yeah, well, and you’ve been doing it so long to see improvements that like you’re not even really looking for at the time. That’s pretty badass. Like that’s a huge highlight and deserves to be celebrated. Yeah.

Coach Alice Robeson (1:10:19)
Yeah, it’s nice when it’s a surprise.

Dani Taylor (1:10:19)
Yeah. But I also

again I recognize that it’s almost like by accident, right? Like if I wanted to build my quads specifically, there’s better ways to do it than what I’m doing right now. But you know, the other stuff is cool. And the absolutely, way less painful. but the

Coach Sawyer (1:10:31)
Yeah, less painful ways we might say.

Coach Alice Robeson (1:10:34)
Let’s stay able.

Dani Taylor (1:10:36)
gymnastics stuff is really, really fun. Like I’m really

Coach Sawyer (1:10:39)
Mm.

Dani Taylor (1:10:39)
enjoying that part quite a bit.

Coach Sawyer (1:10:41)
Cool.

Dani Taylor (1:10:42)
and accidentally getting a little bit lighter by forgetting to eat lunch so many times over

the summer.

Coach Sawyer (1:10:45)
you

Dani Taylor (1:10:46)
has made the gymnastics part like a little bit easier. It’s crazy what like five or ten pounds off your body will make throwing your body through the air a lot easier. But it’s also made the lifts harder, right?

Coach Sawyer (1:10:57)
Yeah.

Dani Taylor (1:10:57)
Like it’s crazy how much more ten pounds more on

Coach Sawyer (1:10:59)
100%.

Dani Taylor (1:11:00)
your body frame can make you that much stronger. So

Coach Sawyer (1:11:03)
Holy

Dani Taylor (1:11:04)
which is yeah, which is why it’s like an interesting

Coach Alice Robeson (1:11:05)
Yeah.

Coach Sawyer (1:11:06)
I remember doing like,

Dani Taylor (1:11:07)
sport.

Coach Sawyer (1:11:08)
yeah, I remember when I did like my dreamer book and like 2022 and I could barely get like six pull ups and I was like, this is not okay. I was like, this is

Dani Taylor (1:11:18)
Mm-hmm.

Coach Sawyer (1:11:18)
a little scary.

Coach Alice Robeson (1:11:19)
Yeah. Yeah, I can’t

do any unassisted pull ups right now and that kills me. I I was like reaching like nine when I was stage lean and

Coach Sawyer (1:11:23)
That’s hard. Yeah. Yeah.

Coach Alice Robeson (1:11:28)
yeah, I was so proud of that. Never before in my life had I reached anywhere close to that.

Coach Sawyer (1:11:32)
Yeah. But then at the same time, you get really bulky and you’re like, I’m bench pressing like crazy weights. I’m lat pull down in my body weight. Like it was crazy. Yeah. Yeah.

Coach Alice Robeson (1:11:40)
so clean and pressing a hundred and ten pounds.

Dani Taylor (1:11:42)
Hmm. Your your

joints just feel like they’ve got a little bit more cushion in them to take

Coach Sawyer (1:11:47)
Yeah.

Dani Taylor (1:11:48)
the, you know, the impact of these heavy ass weights.

Coach Sawyer (1:11:50)
I know. Yeah, no,

literally every body composition I’ve ever been at any, like it just there’s so many pros and cons. I don’t even know where I prefer anymore. Like I’m just like somewhere

Dani Taylor (1:12:01)
Mm-hmm.

Coach Sawyer (1:12:01)
in the middle now because I’m like, I just want all of the things all at once. Can I just have them all at once, please? No, no, you can’t.

Coach Alice Robeson (1:12:07)
Yeah. Well that’s why

Dani Taylor (1:12:07)
Right.

Coach Alice Robeson (1:12:09)
I land here and I’m in like the one the low one forties and I’m like, I could just I could just be done. I could just be done.

Coach Sawyer (1:12:12)
Yeah, cruising. Yeah.

Dani Taylor (1:12:13)
Uh-huh. Yep, yep. And

yeah, that’s the the interesting thing about CrossFit is other than the games athletes, which those are not human beings, you can’t convince me that they’re actually humans. Like if you cut them open, I guarantee you they’re like robot inside. That’s not normal at all. you kind of can’t be your goal is to get really good at all of the things, like be strong, have endurance.

have great cardiovascular ability, be good at gymnastics and all of these other skills. to do all of those things, like they oppose each other. A lot of them oppose each other. So if you’re trying to get better at them all at the same time, which I absolutely have been for the last year, like you’re gonna drive yourself insane quite a bit. So you have to at some point say, like, okay, these are the let’s say three skills or things I want to work on, and everything else, you just have to be okay with it just hanging.

Coach Sawyer (1:13:03)
Yeah. Ben taught me that too, even with just lifting. He was like, let’s pick movements

Dani Taylor (1:13:01)
Just hanging tight because there’s you know, it’s like a list of 24 different things, and you can’t get better at them all at once. Mm-hmm.

Coach Sawyer (1:13:10)
that are not going to set you off emotionally as you do this cut and that maybe if you’re bulking, you would pick something that’s a little bit more exciting to see progress in. But then again, I’ve

Dani Taylor (1:13:22)
Mm-hmm.

Coach Sawyer (1:13:22)
even taken that too far. That drove me to do the dreamer bulk more because I was like…

my God, I’m Superman in the gym and I’m like, I gotta

Dani Taylor (1:13:30)
Ha ha

Coach Sawyer (1:13:31)
keep eating like this. Bad idea. So

Dani Taylor (1:13:34)
Mm-hmm.

Coach Sawyer (1:13:34)
get a coach people. Don’t be, don’t make my mistakes.

Dani Taylor (1:13:38)
Yeah, yeah. And that’s,

you know, even at at CrossFit, one of the things that has been helpful for me is like I went in there just one, I didn’t tell anybody I was a coach. She figured it out really quickly. But maybe the day I accidentally showed up in a shirt that said coach on the back gave it away, but dumbass.

Coach Sawyer (1:13:51)
Nah, I don’t think so.

Dani Taylor (1:13:52)
but even after she found that out, I was like, do not treat me any differently. Like, assume I know nothing, because even the stuff that I do quote unquote know.

they do it differently, right? Like if I was teaching somebody how to do a walking lunge, just as an example, I would say, you know, try to keep get close to the floor, but keep your back knee, I don’t know, an inch or two off the floor or something. Theirs is like the rep doesn’t count unless your knee touches the floor.

Coach Sawyer (1:14:16)
Hmm.

Dani Taylor (1:14:17)
so I was like, if you see me doing something, just just say it. Just like, just be like, hey, do it this way or change it this way. Because if I ever do decide that I want to like compete, I don’t want to.

get missed reps because they just do it a little bit differently than we do it.

Coach Sawyer (1:14:32)
Mm-hmm.

Dani Taylor (1:14:33)
so just being very, very coachable and not going in there like, I already know everything ’cause I’ve worked in the fitness industry for almost twenty years has been really helpful. So yeah.

Coach Sawyer (1:14:41)
Very humble of you,

Giacomo (1:14:43)
Yeah, I’ve been enjoying coming to your workouts too. And in the beginning I was coming to the workouts and I was able to hold my own. And now because I do I do not go routinely, I do not know the technique. And not that I compare myself to Danny. It’s just the competitive side of me. And you like to tell me, Danny, you come in and you’re just better than me. And now I’m so now it’s stuck in my head. But when I go in there, your technique has gotten so good that I can’t hold a candle to you. When I go in there

I’m like, okay, because I’m using strict form. I’m using like classic resistance

Coach Sawyer (1:15:14)
Yeah.

Giacomo (1:15:14)
training, hypertrophy style form. And I’m going in there and that’s

Dani Taylor (1:15:17)
Mm.

Giacomo (1:15:17)
not what you need to do. Your body needs to move a lot differently, a lot more fluidly. And I don’t and so it’s been sure. Yes. Yes.

Dani Taylor (1:15:22)
More efficiently. Like in in bodybuilding,

kind of the goal is to move as inefficiently as possible, right? To put as much stress on the target muscle as possible. And in not just CrossFit, but any kind of Olympic lifting. Like when you’re learning Olympic lifting, the goal is to move it as efficiently as possible. And that means using particular momentum, but there’s momentum. Like there’s a strategy to it, there’s form involved, but it’s their momentum.

based lift. So you’re training for power, which I’ve never done before. but he’s showing like we were doing one rep max push press, like 20 minutes to work up to a one rep max push press. And Giacomo came in and he doesn’t really know how to do a push press. So he’s like half doing a push press, but half doing a strict press and still outlifting

Coach Sawyer (1:16:06)
you

Dani Taylor (1:16:07)
most of the guys in the class, by the way, which was pretty cool.

Coach Sawyer (1:16:10)
Nice

job, brother.

Dani Taylor (1:16:11)
But yeah, because Giacomo has like a good

Coach Sawyer (1:16:13)
you

Dani Taylor (1:16:13)
cardiovascular base, let’s say, he would show up randomly and just kick my ass in the class, which felt very bad. as somebody who was

Coach Sawyer (1:16:18)
Hehehehehe

Coach Alice Robeson (1:16:21)
Motivating. Mm.

Dani Taylor (1:16:22)
going several times a week and trying really hard. but that

Coach Sawyer (1:16:25)
Mm.

Dani Taylor (1:16:26)
is happening much less now. So

Coach Sawyer (1:16:28)
Hmm?

Coach Alice Robeson (1:16:29)
Training

for power, you’re making me think of

Coach Sawyer (1:16:30)
Nice.

Coach Alice Robeson (1:16:31)
like the certified personal trainer certs. Like training for power. Amazing.

Dani Taylor (1:16:34)
Right. Yes. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And I do think powerlifting

and weightlifting should be named the opposite things. Like powerlifting should be called weightlifting and Olympic weightlifting

Coach Sawyer (1:16:44)
Hmm.

Dani Taylor (1:16:45)
should be called powerlifting. Because you’re actually not using a lot of power in powerlifting. You’re using a lot of strength in powerlifting and you’re using power in Olympic weightlifting. Just putting that out there. It’s very confusing.

Coach Sawyer (1:16:55)
Yeah.

Dani Taylor (1:16:56)
That’s it. That’s what I’ve been up to. That and helping Sawyer with music stuff, which has also had been has been very fun.

but

Coach Sawyer (1:17:02)
It has been.

Dani Taylor (1:17:02)
now it’s in now it’s in Mark and Michael’s hands, so you’re gonna

Giacomo (1:17:05)
And when I went to go visit

Coach Sawyer (1:17:05)
Yeah.

Giacomo (1:17:06)
them, they asked me to start drumming with them in the middle of the night. And I’m like, guys, I don’t what to tell you, but I go to bed at like eight thirty. I’m like I’m

Coach Sawyer (1:17:11)
Really?

Giacomo (1:17:14)
like an old I’m like an old maid, just like ready to like turn down for bed and just like go to sleep and just like have a quiet, peaceful

Coach Sawyer (1:17:21)
You fell asleep at like 7 p.m. sometimes when I was there. I was like, I have never seen this. Yeah.

Coach Alice Robeson (1:17:24)
Yeah. Yeah. Maybe mid conversation you turn over turn around and it’s like Jacoma’s just like

Dani Taylor (1:17:25)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Giacomo (1:17:27)
It’s just the way it is.

Yeah. Yeah, I d I I just go I I turned down real early. I mean, honestly,

well, I w went out till one

Dani Taylor (1:17:38)
Mm.

Giacomo (1:17:38)
thirty at night for with a concert that we went to at a casino at a CrossFit meetup.

Coach Sawyer (1:17:43)
We talk about that for 10

years. Yeah. I mean, that’s like the event. That’s the highlight of

Dani Taylor (1:17:48)
You’re gonna be talking about it for ten years.

Giacomo (1:17:46)
What do you mean?

Coach Sawyer (1:17:50)
your social nightlife, you know, for a while. Yeah.

Giacomo (1:17:53)
Yes, yes, exactly.

But there was something well,

Dani Taylor (1:17:55)
Mm.

Giacomo (1:17:56)
I was telling ’cause I I played tennis with one of the CrossFitters from their box and I was telling him like there’s something about staying up late and eating French fries at midnight with a bunch of people who take

Coach Sawyer (1:18:07)
So naughty.

Giacomo (1:18:08)
good care of themselves that are looking to better themselves that just feels good as opposed to like I’m going out for debauchery and to like have my

Coach Sawyer (1:18:15)
Mm-hmm.

Giacomo (1:18:16)
guilty pleasures. Like, no, I’m going out with people who take very

good care of themselves and are going to continue to, but every once in a while we have a good time. And so it was nice going out with Danny’s people like that.

Coach Sawyer (1:18:27)
You feel

less guilty doing the debauchery if it’s with people with abs, is what you’re saying. Yeah, I know, that’s the illusion.

Giacomo (1:18:31)
Well didn’t feel like debauchery at all is my point. It just felt it felt enjoyable. It’s like, yeah.

Coach Sawyer (1:18:35)
The smoke and mirrors, like, we’re all fit,

Dani Taylor (1:18:36)
I think what he’s trying to get at is that it’s just

Giacomo (1:18:38)
What am trying to say?

Dani Taylor (1:18:40)
fun to hang out with friends and it’s easier to stay up and stay up late when you’re hanging out with your friends. I think that’s really what you mean, honestly. I’m just saying.

Coach Sawyer (1:18:46)
Danny, come on.

Coach Alice Robeson (1:18:46)
Easier, I don’t know about easier, but you want to maybe.

Giacomo (1:18:49)
Once in a while.

Yeah. So are we gonna

have like a meetup

Dani Taylor (1:18:53)
Mm.

Giacomo (1:18:53)
that goes into the night when we have a vegan proteins team thing in twenty twenty?

Dani Taylor (1:18:57)
We already did,

Coach Sawyer (1:18:58)
Hell

Dani Taylor (1:18:58)
bro. You were asleep. Like the last time yeah, the last time everybody was here

Coach Sawyer (1:18:59)
yeah.

Giacomo (1:19:02)
Really? No, not us, the whole

all of us. Are we gonna have like twelve AM activities into the night with the whole vegan proteins community?

Coach Sawyer (1:19:09)
Vegan Retreat, Vegan Proteins Retreat.

Coach Alice Robeson (1:19:11)
I can’t

be up for that.

Dani Taylor (1:19:12)
Yeah, unlikely if we’re leaving it. Like if we have to lead it,

Giacomo (1:19:13)
Mm cod

Coach Sawyer (1:19:13)
Hell yeah.

Dani Taylor (1:19:15)
Sawyer can do it. Huh? Yeah.

Coach Sawyer (1:19:17)
I’ll do I mean, I’m not much of a night. I mean, I

Giacomo (1:19:17)
Okay.

Coach Sawyer (1:19:20)
don’t know. I’m not a

Giacomo (1:19:20)
Could be.

Coach Sawyer (1:19:20)
nightlife person. But if we’re doing certain things with certain people, I will go forever. Like when I went when I last visited you guys, remember, I was like,

Dani Taylor (1:19:23)
Mm.

Giacomo (1:19:23)
Yeah, yeah. Okay. Huh?

Dani Taylor (1:19:26)
Mm-hmm.

Coach Sawyer (1:19:28)
know I’m not tired. It feels like I’m on drugs or something. This is kind of freaking me out. Like, I just felt like there was just constantly things I

Dani Taylor (1:19:30)
Mm-hmm.

Giacomo (1:19:31)
Mm-hmm.

Coach Sawyer (1:19:36)
wanted to do. And like, you guys are just so fun to be around. One thing I think we should make a part of the next retreat is like music stuff. I feel like we should have instruments around.

Dani Taylor (1:19:45)
Ha ha.

Coach Sawyer (1:19:46)
because I don’t know, the twins are probably gonna be there. It’s just fun to do that as a group too, so.

Dani Taylor (1:19:50)
Yeah. Yeah.

We’ll put on a do you ever We can have a talent show. We can put on a put on a concert. They have a talent

Coach Sawyer (1:19:55)
That would be so funny. my god. Yeah

Dani Taylor (1:19:59)
show on the cruise. I’ve literally never seen it, not even once, but yeah. Sounds like again, that’s just sounds like one of my worst nightmares ever. But

Coach Sawyer (1:20:02)
Really? That would be fun. Yeah, no, I hate performing, but if

it’s the BP family, I’m fine with it. Like, I’ll do it then, you know. No cameras.

Dani Taylor (1:20:12)
Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Should

be fun.

Ben (1:20:15)
Hey, if you wanna come

on come on the retreat, drop it down in the comments below on YouTube what you want to

Coach Sawyer (1:20:19)
Yeah!

Ben (1:20:20)
to be there. Location maybe, although that’s a little bit less flexible, but maybe what you want to what you would want to to do there. That could be fun.

Coach Sawyer (1:20:27)
And start a fight

Dani Taylor (1:20:28)
What you wanna do?

Coach Sawyer (1:20:29)
in the comments

who you want to hang out with of us the most, right? Because that’s fun.

Dani Taylor (1:20:33)
Ooh,

rough. You can put a poll on this, Ben. When you put it up. No, don’t do that. Please don’t do that. Please don’t do that. Yeah. No thank you. No, thank you. Yeah.

Coach Sawyer (1:20:36)
Yeah. That would be fun. Do it! Do it!

Giacomo (1:20:36)
no. no. No, we don’t want to do that.

Ben (1:20:38)
Figure that out. I’ll figure that out. Popularity contest. We’re back in high school. Okay. All right, guys. This has been fun. I think we can probably

Coach Alice Robeson (1:20:46)
Oof.

Giacomo (1:20:47)
Mm.

Ben (1:20:51)
wrap it up here. So the next one we do together will be a QA with questions fielded from: hey, if you want to be a part of the QA, drop a drop a question for it down below in the comment section. I’ll pull it from here. we’re gonna take a poll of our Muscles by Brussels community and see.

what questions people want to ask there? you can send an email to coach at veganproteins.com with questions for the the next podcast episode that we do, the five of us. And then the following time we’ll switch back to this kind of catch up. So you’ll probably get one of these kind of podcasts with the five of us once a month, and it’ll alternate between QA’s and kind of a personal catch up. So this has been fun, guys. if you are watching the podcast, please feel free to share it around. That really helps us. leaving a rating and review is also super helpful.

you’ll be able to find all of our social medias and all that information linked in the podcast. so I think that’s pretty much it. And we’ll catch everyone in the next one. Okay, thanks

Coach Sawyer (1:21:43)
That was fun.

Ben (1:21:44)
guys.

Coach Sawyer (1:21:44)
Bye guys.